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Old 03-09-2007, 10:40 PM   #331
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[QUOTE=Disaster]Sounds like you did your part when you could. That is great.

...and you know another great saying.

Love your work and work at what you love. It is infectious.

After 25 years of working in an industry for other people (where I learned about customer research, marketing) I'm going off to start my own business.

(If R/C were my JOB I'd never have to WORK! )
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:25 AM   #332
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well Skiv got he`s 5..00 bet last night

i could only manage 26 lapper 2 sec split
skiv was on 27 lapper 1 sec split

wasen`t sure last night it just seems to lose speed from about 1 mins into the race
tried 3 different gear ratios , 2 motors ,got the lap time down mine 8.8
skiv can be 8.6-8.7

Could be batts ,but then it could be motors
so i have prepped 3 motors for tommorrow
i have faith in my batts ,so motors more then likley ,know for sure saunday

heat .none atall really motors 5cell109f others 122f ,no heat in the batts aswell

going tommorrow to a BIG track indoor
this be the last time i use 5 cell ,this will be a good tester ,lots of fast 6 cell drivers there & this will be a true test of how far behind 5 cell is @1420g

not trying to save brushed .more like trying to get some stability in the world

after this i be using my orion li-po & i only race @clubs that allow them
it they want my money then they allow me to run my li-po ,which i must say does save a load on money & using fragile cells
i`m going to get a tamiya stick holder to bolt onto my fk04

think at the end off the day racers want to run what they want to run & if the rules & stuff are all over the place ,then the racers can run what ever till the organisers get there act together & stop pissing about & posing for the camera`s

in the UK /running lipo/brushless of any power ie;13.5 10.5 will not be able to run @ 95% of the UK tracks/clubs ,as they don`t fit the rules that all the clubs nearly run to

even lipo/brushed is really hard to get continuity from club to club

take west london ,big outdoor tarmac track
they allow 13.5 brushless to run with 27t
But they don`t allow orion Li-Po batts why
there`s no rhyme or reason with decisions made to suit certain partie`s
if you allow one the other must get a look in aswell

Thankgod Eastbourne have seen the light of day & allow li-po


all this does is stop drivers from traveling from one club to another clubs
very very organised racing in the UK


since quite a few 5cell/mod drivers will be down c/wars ,this will be intresting

perssonal note running 5 cell
there have been times where the car & racing lines all clicked togther to make for a quick racing time ,then i the flip side of that is was very mundane & uninspiring with the lack of sheer speed on straight (yawn) but i have increased my lap times faster then running 6 cell ,
but it does get boring about 4 mins into the race

i done it trying to bring 1 weight ,1 cell count 3 class`s to ALL the clubs & series in the UK
but where ever it`s mentioned i am forever more explaining, `it`s not Too slow` the batts don`t get hotter , nor does the motor ,wear rate on tyre`s is lower

i tried it got the FACTS & FIGURES now on to some thing else

report back after the big day tommorrow
skiv`s racing there aswell ,so wwe will see if sidcup was a off-night
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:42 AM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Thomas
Can someone answer this for me, what truely killed off 1/10 scale pan cars? From what I remember they were super fast, cheap to run and easy to control(just needed lightening fast reflexes, which to me is what touring car is turning into except the cheap part).
Its died because any one with a decent parking lot can have a Sedan race, the 1/10th`s needed a smooth surface or they sucked.....
Thus the
1/10 class died or rather, "replaced" by the Sedan...
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:56 AM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
brush`s 15 a pop !!!!!!!!!!!
thats like 7.50 a pair are you sure

like they are only at worst 3.00pr = $6.00 over here
are they made of gold over there,
are you buying from the proper place ??


Just look up the price ...
At your local race facility they sell for $15 or look up mail order for Team Brood ..
Brood sells um for a bit less $12.95

Obviously you don`t purchase your brush`s from your local race facility like I always use to do....

Thank`s for the support....


G
Another reason !

Brush motor are going the way of Dodo, your local facility has to compete with motor tuner`s underselling um, alone with their Nk-Ml packs, its no wonder .....

Good luck supporting that other distributor with their under the table distribution network they have .....

you know ?

Thats why we now have brushless motor`s more than other any reason !

and

The same thing will apply to the battery matcher`s as well with time....


No way you will save the brush motor or Nk-Ml battery packs just for this reason alone....
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Old 03-10-2007, 11:31 AM   #335
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Mr. Jolly: Sorry I forgot you did the lipos. You guys have some tight rules as well. Experience is the best teacher and you will definitely have done that, and you have kept us up to date on your findings. I know you aren't trying to save brushed racing, but rather just trying to make options for it. Good work.
I'll be looking for your next update, its been informative for us all.
Even though I do B/L I have kept up on your testing. Good stuff. At our track brushless lipo has all but taken over. Your signature pretty well explains it all.
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:17 PM   #336
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yeah baby i won the fiver .must say though as jolly said his car was really good for the first minute then just seemed to fade.

at most clubs that i have raced at we have differnt classes for differnt drivers f1 f2 f3 f1 being the pros and f3 being newbies so there is a place for everyone to improve and win trophys.

this whole cost thing i dont think is a issue there are lots of hobbies out there that cost twice as much.we choose to do this hobby we spend our money on what we want.you dont have to have all the latsest gear.
just look at the worlds,i looked around the pits and couldnt belive the amount of gear these guys have until i saw mr spashets table 1 charger a old trinity discharger and a few tools.hes world champion and it proves that you dont need the latest chargers dischargers and gagets to be good its all about skill.

dont forget this is a hobby its about haveing fun meeting people and trying to punt your mate off
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Old 03-10-2007, 04:53 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Just look up the price ...
At your local race facility they sell for $15 or look up mail order for Team Brood ..
Brood sells um for a bit less $12.95

Obviously you don`t purchase your brush`s from your local race facility like I always use to do....

Thank`s for the support....


G
Another reason !

Brush motor are going the way of Dodo, your local facility has to compete with motor tuner`s underselling um, alone with their Nk-Ml packs, its no wonder .....

Good luck supporting that other distributor with their under the table distribution network they have .....

you know ?

Thats why we now have brushless motor`s more than other any reason !

and

The same thing will apply to the battery matcher`s as well with time....


No way you will save the brush motor or Nk-Ml battery packs just for this reason alone....
lets not fall out over pricing cherry

but brush`s are not that dear over hear nor that dear over there not @$15.00 pr anyway`s (we are taling 4499's767'sF-lines here arn't we ?????..
evn our LHS are not that dear

anyway save it or not ,just a idea

wild cherry i had a orion 4800lipo since they have been released over here by the way & used it & buggered it up
now have a carbon 3200 coming

@cherry
Quote:
Good luck supporting that other distributor with their under the table distribution network they have .....

you know ?
no i don`t ,what you on about ????????
talking in code does not help either
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Old 03-10-2007, 04:58 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
Mr. Jolly: Sorry I forgot you did the lipos. You guys have some tight rules as well. Experience is the best teacher and you will definitely have done that, and you have kept us up to date on your findings. I know you aren't trying to save brushed racing, but rather just trying to make options for it. Good work.
I'll be looking for your next update, its been informative for us all.
Even though I do B/L I have kept up on your testing. Good stuff. At our track brushless lipo has all but taken over. Your signature pretty well explains it all.
yeah i like to have a simple life with Hobbys
leave all the complicated rules for paying the
mortgage.keep the house ,keeping you job , keeping the family happy ,keeping the dog or cat happy

there`s a saying
'life is what you make it ' ;; i want it bloody simple
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Old 03-10-2007, 05:09 PM   #339
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Same here I didn't start racing to take on a second job. I did it to get away from my current job. This stuff is just to dang much fun to take to serious. I guess that sounds odd. I have 4 kids and pets to.
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Old 03-10-2007, 05:35 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skiv
this whole cost thing i dont think is a issue there are lots of hobbies out there that cost twice as much...
Cost = accessibility for a lot of people. You have to look at what you are up against.

1. Video game racing. $250 dollars for a console and game. $50 if you already have a gaming console.

2. Computer game racing. $50 for game. $0 dollars for computer if you already have it. Possibly much more if not.

3. Go Kart racing. $20 bucks a race. No other expense unless you want to buy your own kart which only costs $1500 to $3000...depending on how serious you get. Don't know if you tried it but it is hard to get as fired up about RC as it is when you've got your actual _ss in the seat of a race car.

4. RC offroad racing. $300 for truck. $80 for a couple sets of batteries. $50 for charger.

and TC.

$450 for chassis kit. $120 for two sets of competitive batteries. $120 for top end charger/cycler. $120 for comm lathe. $120 for a couple motors. $150 for ESC. $50 for one way. $80 for diffs. $200 for various other upgrades. $300 for wheels and tires for race season. $50 for brushes for race season. $250 for radio. $100 for set up station. ...probably missed some big ticket item but that is enough for now.

Then there is the time. Time to cycle batteries. Time to "tune" motors. Time to turn comms. Time to mix this tire with that setup.

All this is, I'm sure, loads of fun for the zealots, but it makes for a very formidable barrier to the newbies.

By the way, I just went out RCing with my son today. We bought a ProPulse RTR truck from Radioshack for $100. For fun we upgraded the motor and ESC to brushless. That cost $40 for the ESC and $30 for the motor. I popped in an Apogee 2200mAh Lipo battery for $35. Spent the next two hours trying to break it. The motor finally succumbed to a 6 foot jump that landed square on the nose. The endball popped right off (a little epoxy and we should be back in business tomorrow.) Put in a replacement motor and kept going till we ran out of juice (which was Ok because we were running out of light by then too.)

I'd like to see the same low cost entry available for TC.

One other thing relative to cost. How come no one complains about the carpet tracks? On my local track the plywood wall is a replacement part seller's dream. I watch guys go out and make it maybe three laps before breaking an A-arm from smacking into the wall. I want to spend time driving...not replacing parts. How hard would it be to make a more forgiving track barrier?
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Old 03-10-2007, 11:11 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disaster
Cost = accessibility for a lot of people. You have to look at what you are up against.

1. Video game racing. $250 dollars for a console and game. $50 if you already have a gaming console.

2. Computer game racing. $50 for game. $0 dollars for computer if you already have it. Possibly much more if not.

3. Go Kart racing. $20 bucks a race. No other expense unless you want to buy your own kart which only costs $1500 to $3000...depending on how serious you get. Don't know if you tried it but it is hard to get as fired up about RC as it is when you've got your actual _ss in the seat of a race car.

4. RC offroad racing. $300 for truck. $80 for a couple sets of batteries. $50 for charger.

and TC.

$450 for chassis kit. $120 for two sets of competitive batteries. $120 for top end charger/cycler. $120 for comm lathe. $120 for a couple motors. $150 for ESC. $50 for one way. $80 for diffs. $200 for various other upgrades. $300 for wheels and tires for race season. $50 for brushes for race season. $250 for radio. $100 for set up station. ...probably missed some big ticket item but that is enough for now.

Then there is the time. Time to cycle batteries. Time to "tune" motors. Time to turn comms. Time to mix this tire with that setup.

All this is, I'm sure, loads of fun for the zealots, but it makes for a very formidable barrier to the newbies.

By the way, I just went out RCing with my son today. We bought a ProPulse RTR truck from Radioshack for $100. For fun we upgraded the motor and ESC to brushless. That cost $40 for the ESC and $30 for the motor. I popped in an Apogee 2200mAh Lipo battery for $35. Spent the next two hours trying to break it. The motor finally succumbed to a 6 foot jump that landed square on the nose. The endball popped right off (a little epoxy and we should be back in business tomorrow.) Put in a replacement motor and kept going till we ran out of juice (which was Ok because we were running out of light by then too.)

I'd like to see the same low cost entry available for TC.

One other thing relative to cost. How come no one complains about the carpet tracks? On my local track the plywood wall is a replacement part seller's dream. I watch guys go out and make it maybe three laps before breaking an A-arm from smacking into the wall. I want to spend time driving...not replacing parts. How hard would it be to make a more forgiving track barrier?
disaster
where do you reside (country you live in?)
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Old 03-10-2007, 11:42 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
wild cherry i had a orion 4800lipo since they have been released over here by the way & used it & buggered it up
now have a carbon 3200 coming
The balancer didn't work then ?
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Old 03-10-2007, 11:52 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
disaster
where do you reside (country you live in?)
Motown, USA.
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Old 03-10-2007, 11:54 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disaster
$450 for chassis kit. $120 for two sets of competitive batteries. $120 for top end charger/cycler. $120 for comm lathe. $120 for a couple motors. $150 for ESC. $50 for one way. $80 for diffs. $200 for various other upgrades. $300 for wheels and tires for race season. $50 for brushes for race season. $250 for radio. $100 for set up station. ...probably missed some big ticket item but that is enough for now.
Uhm... that's not startup kit as you've mentioned for other things in your list.

Remove the following:
top-end charger (not needed to get started)
comm lathe (not needed to get started)
one motor (only need on to get going)
one-way (not needed until you can drive )
various upgrades (run out of the box)
set up station (build to kit specs)


Over the course of a year, maybe $300 for a set of wheels/tyres. Assuming that's US prices, you're talking 10-15 sets (based on converting to UK money). I'm still very new to RC, so I can't comment on this really other than it would change on how often you ran it ?

As you're talking about being competitive it seems, let's have a look at your other costs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disaster
Video game racing. $250 dollars for a console and game. $50 if you already have a gaming console.

2. Computer game racing. $50 for game. $0 dollars for computer if you already have it. Possibly much more if not.

3. Go Kart racing. $20 bucks a race. No other expense unless you want to buy your own kart which only costs $1500 to $3000...depending on how serious you get. Don't know if you tried it but it is hard to get as fired up about RC as it is when you've got your actual _ss in the seat of a race car.

4. RC offroad racing. $300 for truck. $80 for a couple sets of batteries. $50 for charger.
Top end console: closer to $500 (xbox 360/PS3)... oh and don't forget power, tv, cabling etc
Computer Racing Game: that's like saying it'll only cost you $300 a year to run an RC car, assuming you've already got one and all the gear to go with it. Let's ignore you point about computers shall we ? Unless of course, you want to add in Computer, Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, Steering Wheel... What's it cost now ?

Go Karts: I know a couple guys here in the UK who own and race karts. 5000-10000 for a season.


I'm not saying that RC isn't expensive, but your argument seems very one sided to me. Lots of assumptions that people will have this equipment already.

Go from having nothing to being able to go and RC: 500 at a conservative estimate
Go from having nothing to being able to play a driving game on a 360: 1000-2000 (TV, console, game)

Cheers
Chris
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Old 03-11-2007, 12:25 AM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_dono
Uhm... that's not startup kit as you've mentioned for other things in your list.

Remove the following:
top-end charger (not needed to get started)
comm lathe (not needed to get started)
one motor (only need on to get going)
one-way (not needed until you can drive )
various upgrades (run out of the box)
set up station (build to kit specs)


Over the course of a year, maybe $300 for a set of wheels/tyres. Assuming that's US prices, you're talking 10-15 sets (based on converting to UK money). I'm still very new to RC, so I can't comment on this really other than it would change on how often you ran it ?

As you're talking about being competitive it seems, let's have a look at your other costs...



Top end console: closer to $500 (xbox 360/PS3)... oh and don't forget power, tv, cabling etc
Computer Racing Game: that's like saying it'll only cost you $300 a year to run an RC car, assuming you've already got one and all the gear to go with it. Let's ignore you point about computers shall we ? Unless of course, you want to add in Computer, Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, Steering Wheel... What's it cost now ?

Go Karts: I know a couple guys here in the UK who own and race karts. 5000-10000 for a season.


I'm not saying that RC isn't expensive, but your argument seems very one sided to me. Lots of assumptions that people will have this equipment already.

Go from having nothing to being able to go and RC: 500 at a conservative estimate
Go from having nothing to being able to play a driving game on a 360: 1000-2000 (TV, console, game)

Cheers
Chris
Just one quick issue..The TV can't be figured into the cost of playing video games since TVs have other uses...a comm lathe is a comm lathe...no other use. Same with the computer. Not that I'm being nit-picky but those are costs that people have for other reasons. Tires...no other use...motor...no other use...so on...
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