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Old 03-06-2007, 09:45 AM   #211
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Club level racing attracts beginner to pro drivers and they are expected to race with the same motor in some places and that is just wrong.

The problem is a joint issue with the racers, brca and the clubs- the brca mention 19t and 27t and modified in the rules (all 6 cell), which is all good and fair, but what about clubs that only race one motor class?

If each club saw how they structured their racing and integrated with the brca some answer may be reached.

6 cell has been part of r/c racing from the year dot.

Motor classes are a better way of structuring speed and how drivers progress. A set of cells will only make a motor so much quicker.

However, seeing as we are dealing with 2 varibles,(cells and motor) its too tougher call to see what is the best option...

When you only have one motor class you are making the racing even more limited.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:48 AM   #212
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i always thought that when we charge our packs for a 5 minute race it sort of gets a memory so buy taking a cell out its not going to perform to its best.so then we will be back to the same thing we have now buying the best macthed 5 cell packs we can get.
good point you have there about the tamiya class.my dads local club is introducing a silver can class at the moment and he told me that its geting very populer with beginers
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:56 AM   #213
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5 cell will make the cell war even more important, and show the difference between the haves and have nots.

NiMH cells aren't suppose to have a 'memory effect'.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:57 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
Like I've said, going to 5-cell only distances TCs farther from other forms of 1/10th scale electric racing which in turn will make people decide on one over the other. People who race off-road 6-cell aren't going to destroy their packs just to race TC and TC on-road racers aren't going to buy specific 6-cell packs just to race off-road. This limits peoples choices and attendence at TC races will continue to get smaller. Not a route that I support.
How many people acturally do on-road and off-road together? I know no one around me doing that. I know there are several on this forum, but are they doing 6cells? or 5cells? As I can tell there are more and more ppl doing 5cells in offroad with brushless.

I said in other thread I support to have 6cells 1500g and 5cells 1350g both legal for 2007, let the market decide. If 5cells get same speed even faster, more and more peple will move to 5cells.

In fact, there are quite many friends of my doing either 4cells brushless, or 5cells brushless, in non-racing driving, as it save lots $ on parts and wears.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:00 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttso
How many people acturally do on-road and off-road together? I know no one around me doing that. I know there are several on this forum, but are they doing 6cells? or 5cells? As I can tell there are more and more ppl doing 5cells in offroad with brushless.

I said in other thread I support to have 6cells 1500g and 5cells 1350g both legal for 2007, let the market decide. If 5cells get same speed even faster, more and more peple will move to 5cells.

In fact, there are quite many friends of my doing either 4cells brushless, or 5cells brushless, in non-racing driving, as it save lots $ on parts and wears.
5-cell off-road??? NOBODY is doing that in the U.S. at least. Brushless..yes, 6-cell or LiPo but NO 5-cell. Many people are running both here at least or would like the option to be able to run both with the same equipment.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:02 AM   #216
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most of my club run both.... and the thought of running 5 cell on a grass track, will be like giving the car sleeping pills.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:05 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DA_cookie_monst
5 cell will make the cell war even more important, and show the difference between the haves and have nots.

NiMH cells aren't suppose to have a 'memory effect'.
Is cell war any kind less serious anyday since day1? HAHA.......

Either it's 5cells or 4cells, what makes most different on laptime is WEIGHT, not battery. The lighter you get, the faster you go, even faster than 6cells 1500g.

Before EFRA introduce 5cells 1350g, I didn't even consider it's possible. After that, I've to say, 5cells 1350g is a better solution than 4cells 1350g. Speed is very close to 6cells 1500g, not hurting battery as 4cells did, and still have everything reducing cell try to achieve: less heat, less wear, cheaper overall.


Btw, no electronic battery has "zero" memory effect. It just matter of less/some/lots. Hell even LiPo has memory effect in some degree.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:08 AM   #218
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in no particular order the whole structure of racing can or is a problem.

1) Clubs need to identify there will be a wide range of racers attending

2) Motors

3) cells

4) rules to allow good racing for all levels of racer

Sort that out and you have good racing for everyone
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:11 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skiv
ias your results have shown you were only a few seconds behind,so your tyres are still wearing as much as his
how do you know that
have you been measuring my tyre`s when i`m not looking or something

i have bet with this man (Stuart ) that i can out do him on friday eve with my 5 cell 27t in Q (finals i muckup)
skiv will run 6 cell/27t

like i said 5 cell racing makes a rift between the fast guys & the slow guys that like it

lipo will go into matched & performance enhancing matching & wot not

so i will be there next year with you muahdib4
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:13 AM   #220
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yeah baby bring it on.if you beat me jolly i will eat my words and come on here and officalley apoligies to you for dissing this 5 cell thing.
thatll be hard for me lol
hope i bloody beat you
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:26 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
yeah & he's on this weekend coming


@nathan Parker



you have 1 questions to answer ,you know where you was telling us how amp is different between 5 & 6 cell
or are you talking horse shit again ...............
Here are some facts




ELECTRIC MOTORS AND VOLTAGE
The effect of low voltage on electric motors is pretty widely known and understood but, the effect of high voltage on motors is frequently misunderstood. This paper will try to describe the effects of both low and high voltage and to describe the related performance changes that can be expected when voltages other than nameplate voltages are utilized.
LOW VOLTAGE

When electric motors are subjected to voltages, below the nameplate rating, some of the characteristics will change slightly and others will change more dramatically. A basic point is, to drive a fixed mechanical load connected to the shaft, a motor must draw a fixed amount of power from the power line. The amount of power the motor draws is roughly related to the voltage times current (amps). Thus, when voltage gets low, the current must get higher to provide the same amount of power. The fact that current gets higher is not alarming unless it exceeds the nameplate current rating of the motor. When amps go above the nameplate rating, it is safe to assume that the buildup of heat within the motor will become damaging if it is left unchecked. If a motor is lightly loaded and the voltage drops, the current will increase in roughly the same proportion that the voltage decreases.

For example, a 10% voltage decrease would cause a 10% amperage increase. This would not be damaging if the motor current stays below the nameplate value. However, if a motor is heavily loaded and a voltage reduction occurs, the current would go up from a fairly high value to a new value which might be in excess of the full load rated amps. This could be damaging. It can be safely said that low voltage in itself is not a problem unless the motor amperage is pushed beyond the nameplate rating


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Old 03-06-2007, 11:03 AM   #222
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Hi Jolly
That is very interesting info you have posted with regards to 5 cell racing.You may be interested in some 5cell mod testing I did last weekend.The testing was done at the NWMCC tarmac track here in N.ireland,it is a hi grip surface and is medium sized probably a bit smaller than west london.We used ib4200 cells with 3.5 and 4.5 novak (sintered rotors) brushless systems and the car was probably about 1440grams.I personally knocked 10 seconds off my previous best time although I am an improving driver,but my mate,who is a regular modified national b finalist smashed 5 seconds off his previous personal best and 0.2 seconds off his best lap time!On this track 5 cell is definitely faster,I think you are right about the driveability,the raw grunt of 6 cells is gone and replaced by a smooth and controllable throttle action.As a side note,dont discount nathans hi amp theory ,he is right.The one thing we were having problems with, was dumping the cells ,this will be an issue at some of the bigger uk tracks unless we can get our hands on some 4600 gps We never dumped with 6 cell modified at this track using the current crop of cells.As further proof of this,check out this years jmrca champs on 4 cells,its not just as simple as v=i*r.

hope this gives more food for thought
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:54 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Parker
Here are some facts




ELECTRIC MOTORS AND VOLTAGE
The effect of low voltage on electric motors is pretty widely known and understood but, the effect of high voltage on motors is frequently misunderstood. This paper will try to describe the effects of both low and high voltage and to describe the related performance changes that can be expected when voltages other than nameplate voltages are utilized.
LOW VOLTAGE

When electric motors are subjected to voltages, below the nameplate rating, some of the characteristics will change slightly and others will change more dramatically. A basic point is, to drive a fixed mechanical load connected to the shaft, a motor must draw a fixed amount of power from the power line. The amount of power the motor draws is roughly related to the voltage times current (amps). Thus, when voltage gets low, the current must get higher to provide the same amount of power. The fact that current gets higher is not alarming unless it exceeds the nameplate current rating of the motor. When amps go above the nameplate rating, it is safe to assume that the buildup of heat within the motor will become damaging if it is left unchecked. If a motor is lightly loaded and the voltage drops, the current will increase in roughly the same proportion that the voltage decreases.

For example, a 10% voltage decrease would cause a 10% amperage increase. This would not be damaging if the motor current stays below the nameplate value. However, if a motor is heavily loaded and a voltage reduction occurs, the current would go up from a fairly high value to a new value which might be in excess of the full load rated amps. This could be damaging. It can be safely said that low voltage in itself is not a problem unless the motor amperage is pushed beyond the nameplate rating


run that pass me again in laymen terms instead of cut & paste from some nerdie book you been reading while sitting on the toilet .........
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:58 AM   #224
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I think it means low voltage is not an issue unless the current is too great/more than the motor can take?

So when voltage drops, Current increases and when Voltage increases, Current decreases

whether thats true or not i have no idea, lol.
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Old 03-06-2007, 12:01 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Growler
Hi Jolly
That is very interesting info you have posted with regards to 5 cell racing.You may be interested in some 5cell mod testing I did last weekend.The testing was done at the NWMCC tarmac track here in N.ireland,it is a hi grip surface and is medium sized probably a bit smaller than west london.We used ib4200 cells with 3.5 and 4.5 novak (sintered rotors) brushless systems and the car was probably about 1440grams.I personally knocked 10 seconds off my previous best time although I am an improving driver,but my mate,who is a regular modified national b finalist smashed 5 seconds off his previous personal best and 0.2 seconds off his best lap time!On this track 5 cell is definitely faster,I think you are right about the driveability,the raw grunt of 6 cells is gone and replaced by a smooth and controllable throttle action.As a side note,dont discount nathans hi amp theory ,he is right.The one thing we were having problems with, was dumping the cells ,this will be an issue at some of the bigger uk tracks unless we can get our hands on some 4600 gps We never dumped with 6 cell modified at this track using the current crop of cells.As further proof of this,check out this years jmrca champs on 4 cells,its not just as simple as v=i*r.

hope this gives more food for thought
all this is guessing anyway coz when the Uk mod scene starts then we will get a true picture of what 5 cells be like in mod

if cells get caned like Robfo has said then back to the drawing board ,then i`ll stay with me orion lipo`s instead

Qshall i stop banging on about 5 cell 27t/19t for now ?????????????

wait a couple on month`s to see how it pans out

i still carry on using 5 cells @1411g (if allowed too)
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