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Old 03-06-2007, 04:39 AM   #181
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Right, I got a question for you... how come the off-road guys, running mod can do 6 cell, and have no complaints, but TC can't seem to cope with driving right with 6 cell stock/19t, I mean, even on a poorly setup buggy, a 19t is quick, but no fun.

On a personal note, I got to say that I stick two finger up to 5 cell, I race irregular, I do on and off-road, I don't burn up brushes in stock and 19t, not exactly a sloth on the track.

Maybe it is worth looking at why people are spending a fortune to run slow motors than forcing others to go slow?
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:46 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
...acts like a V8 instead of a peaky two stroke

this is why i`m using 5 cell where i go for now ,even when i go up west london I`ll asked permission to run 1400g/5 cell against the 6 cell/1500g brigade & see how it is there
...Weight is obviously a big driver. Lighter cars stress the drivetrain less and have less inertia going into the boards which means they are less likely to break (as long as you don't dumb lighten.)

Therefore I'd like to see Lipos and brushless lighter still (batteries are lighter.) How about 1300g/2S lipo? You could probably run half a dozen races without recharging the battery!...and how about introducing some longer race formats. That is a new opportunity.
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:58 AM   #183
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Ok, not wanting to sound like im taking sides here (its not healthy to sometimes lol) I havnt been burning bushes on 19t 6 cell. Ive liked it more than 27t for this reason, and the lack of tinkering (got to love the checkpoint, keep it clean and skimmed = lol).

Now call me biased, but for BRCA Sanctioned events I feel we should leave 27t to either

a) a junior national level championship

or

b) replace them with something else.


Question im asking myself is, why the hell do we still have 27t, at NATIONAL level? They are just a glammed up, modified 540 (watch the come in lol)

We (as a racer) have demanded too much from our needs of them.
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:01 AM   #184
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As for off road, I could be totally wrong, but cells probably dont take so much of a hammering when it comes to using them.

They may get charged in a similar way to on road...

but.. when it comes to using their power, there are jumps and loose/uneven surfaces to consider making power harder to use. A motor in an off road buggy, spooling up on wet grass etc may not be as hard on the cells as a touring car on a high grip carpet track.

As I say, I may be thinking totally outside the ring here, but when you talk about on and off road you start to throw more varibles into the situation.
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:27 AM   #185
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@DA
off-road you have to be smooth ,you have a lot less grip then power then on-road (tyre`s) ,so really you are not asking the motor to pull loads of juice to get going



going 1300g/2s will cost racer`s to convert ,5 cell way cost`s nothing

if i was going through brush`s every run & i came up with this idea then it would sound a bit dubious

but i can race for for a whole meet no probs

but` im telling you now
c/wars rebrushing/skimming every run or every 2 runs in both 27t & 19t

checkpoint & v2 are excluded ,coz you only skim maybe every 4 runs & keep brush`s ,that`s 19t
27t

catch 22 situ really, faster you go & better you are more then likely you be skimming & re brushing every other run to set the pace or keep up ,the fast guy`s cause this situ in 27t ,not the avrerage joe racers ,they just go round struggling to control there car for 5 min`s

so really the problem is being caused by the top/fast guys skimming/re brushing

so 5 cell takes that `HoT Tip` away from the fast guy`s & give some of it to the average racers without them even lifting a finger & it`s free


but to many variables chucked in here will confuse me & i will post something really wrong up here to get shot at ,i say it how i see it ,politics i don`t do , spin doctor i am not aswell
got a whole season yet
so i`ll just keep bashing around the tracks & post up here any negs or pos for 5 cell/27t/19t 1400g
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:32 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Ok, not wanting to sound like im taking sides here (its not healthy to sometimes lol) I havnt been burning bushes on 19t 6 cell. Ive liked it more than 27t for this reason, and the lack of tinkering (got to love the checkpoint, keep it clean and skimmed = lol).

Now call me biased, but for BRCA Sanctioned events I feel we should leave 27t to either

a) a junior national level championship

or

b) replace them with something else.


Question im asking myself is, why the hell do we still have 27t, at NATIONAL level? They are just a glammed up, modified 540 (watch the come in lol)

We (as a racer) have demanded too much from our needs of them.
going 5 cell could help the nats anyway
if 5 cell/mod is really good ,& 27t/19t are 5 cell 1 weight @clubs & series, then racers only have to get a mod-b/less to do a round when it pass`s by

27t/19t even 5 cell mod can be done by the series if need be

but the mass`s want 27t/19t not mod when using 6 cell
but if 5 cell came in for all 3 class`s ,then there be more racer's intrested in mod /b/less maybe
cos the fast guys in 27t/19t will move up to get there speed fix.........


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Old 03-06-2007, 05:35 AM   #187
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if you look @ the top 4 27t racers they could easily handle the
5 cell /19t ,so thye move up
so that loosens up the 27t class for the true beginneers,average Joe`s

and so 19t racers ill go up to mod



Pos Car Arc Name Impr Result Ave Best
1 5 124 Tim Hancock YES 27 / 300.00 11.11 10.75
2 2 115 Colin WittYES 27 / 304.79 11.28 10.93 (5cell/1411g
3 3 50 Alex Boniface YES 26 / 301.82 11.60 11.02
4 1 2 Dave Mills YES 26 / 307.79 11.83 11.04
5 6 31 Mike Spurway 24 / 300.12 12.50 11.58
6 4 3 Grant Riddall 6 / 75.26 12.54 11.61



27t guys were ...6 cell 1500g s
Pos Arc Name Result Ave Best
1 125 Darren Simpson 26 / 305.78 11.76 11.28
2 54 Stuart Colby 26 / 310.79 11.95 11.36
3 7 James Brooker 25 / 303.45 12.13 11.58
4 126 Glen Relf 25 / 306.90 12.27 11.83
5 128 Clive Bonner 25 / 308.58 12.34 11.96
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:49 AM   #188
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:10 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
if you look @ the top 4 27t racers they could easily handle the
5 cell /19t ,so thye move up
so that loosens up the 27t class for the true beginneers,average Joe`s

and so 19t racers ill go up to mod
you can encorage any racer to change their ways, but you cant force them...

That aside, the BRCA has a tough time, new stuff gets voted in for use, then people blow it to bits... and then the circle continues.

With F1, engine lets go, lesson learnt and they race at the next track learning from the incident.

A brca sanctioned event usually attracts the top end racers, so... they should know where a motors limit is.

But, on the other hand, if they want to blow their motors into a million pieces and get a DNF,let them.

Mummy told me I would learn from my mistakes one day... oh sh*t, i've broken it again!

If you're pushing the limits you pay the price, racing has its good and bad days. If you can't accept that you shouldn't race.

On a serious note, its club racing that is scaring people away from this hobby, not the big BRCA sanctioned, or sponsored meetings.

New equipment and how big is your wallet are the two things that do that with no effort at all.

If you want more people to race at club level (to one day attending the bigger BRCA events) you make the rules stronger there, but some people wont listen.

You need a beginner class at club level, period. Without it and the first timer usually doesnt stand a chance and into the distance they go. Let them stay in that class for 6 months maximum then review things.

Clubs also need to realise that if they share the same rules with similar equipment it helps clubs integrate.

Im no brain scientist, but things have gone way,way west over the years when it comes to rules. Im not even sure 5 cell is the answer as ive gone off topic. lol.
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:24 AM   #190
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See, the way I look at it...you're looking at the problem from the wrong angle. What is the future of batteries for TCs? Is it really going to be SubC cells? No. The future WILL be LiPo so why bother changing to 5-cell anything when 2-cell LiPo will just put all the power back to about even with 6-cell again. People need to embrace what's coming and start lobbying for it now. Most local club races allow LiPo here...The Tamiya Chamionship Series allowed them in a class...and I do believe some of the larger races are also allowing them in some classes. It's going to happen, LiPo WILL be race legal in the next year or two. You can sit around and debate 4-5-6 Cell SubC technology all you want but it will soon be old technology that nobody uses. ROAR here in the US chose not to force everyone to 4-cell this year because we as racers made our voices heard. MANY voices shouting LIPO of course. I do understand that in the UK, you have your own rules regarding TC but once the U.S., Japan, and the rest go LiPo...you will too. The 4-5-6 cell debate has already had every possible arguement looked at in another thread and you should really go read that one as well. The concensus was...no changes...
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:12 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
WRONG

You cannot quote Ohm's law by itself to describe the behaviour of a motor.
Please explain I'm willing to learn, the behaviour of the motor will change as more current is released by the speedo controller. But the motor is a fixed resistance as we are dealing with DC and not AC, yes where are pulsing the motor (frequency) but all above 0v and not alternating. Why do you think a light bulb that is dead short does not trip out the mains at home?
Becuase of the 'lag' caused by the filament (inductor) and a AC circuit see this 'open circuit' due to the 'J' notation

AC - DC two different theories.

Why do you think the CS dyno piece of paper has varing amp draw and a constant 7v. To give the behaviour of the motor.

To answer the other question about cells internal resiatance playing a part. This is only relavant to how quickly the cell can release the stored energy.
A given motor will only draw a fixed amount of current we just control how much.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:21 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
See, the way I look at it...you're looking at the problem from the wrong angle. What is the future of batteries for TCs? Is it really going to be SubC cells? No. The future WILL be LiPo so why bother changing to 5-cell anything when 2-cell LiPo will just put all the power back to about even with 6-cell again. People need to embrace what's coming and start lobbying for it now. Most local club races allow LiPo here...The Tamiya Chamionship Series allowed them in a class...and I do believe some of the larger races are also allowing them in some classes. It's going to happen, LiPo WILL be race legal in the next year or two. You can sit around and debate 4-5-6 Cell SubC technology all you want but it will soon be old technology that nobody uses. ROAR here in the US chose not to force everyone to 4-cell this year because we as racers made our voices heard. MANY voices shouting LIPO of course. I do understand that in the UK, you have your own rules regarding TC but once the U.S., Japan, and the rest go LiPo...you will too. The 4-5-6 cell debate has already had every possible arguement looked at in another thread and you should really go read that one as well. The concensus was...no changes...
i`ll get me orion carbon out then

the speed of the cars are to fast ,they are just going mental ,also i can`t see goign li-po will help slow the cars down to make them more driveable & more racers controlling them

we have more indoor clubs then out doors & the track sizes are not changing
usaully getting smaller since hall land are every expensive to rent out

li-po wil happen also b/less will happen
how long will it take .well that`s anyones guess

racing scene over here is very fragmented ,which is not nice atall
can`t go from one club to another with out changing or buying extra stuff to fit in ,then it`s the case of take it out of car & refit other bits

off-road rules on that one, Simple fit`s in box or not

if i knew li-po be legal next season ,then i wouldn`t of started the 5 cell banging on sesiion
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:27 AM   #193
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heh, minipins, 4wd indoors on carpet put the drivetrain and motor under a lot of strain, remember, there is a lot more inertia to get moving in a 4wd buggy transmission.

I seen this debate happen many years ago with stock and off-road, with 36' stock motors going pop etc, thankfully, the BRCA recognised this, and other series, and booted these finicky motors into touch, they are worse than a tuned 2stroke 125cc race bike.

If the BRCA tried to make off-road go 5 cell, they would get a big slap and told a big fat NO, you have the option of powering off the 5 cell if need be, but 6 cells are needed.

The BRCA should drop 27t at least at national level, leave 19t as 6 cell or 5 cell to keep with the 5 cell mod, although there are other ways to stop popping motors and drivetrains. Just people not willing to give away grip are they.

In the end, stock is a dead donkey, keep it for clubs, keep it for smaller series, but get the heck out of nationals, it has no place, let the clubs decide what they want.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:30 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
i`ll get me orion carbon out then

the speed of the cars are to fast ,they are just going mental ,also i can`t see goign li-po will help slow the cars down to make them more driveable & more racers controlling them

we have more indoor clubs then out doors & the track sizes are not changing
usaully getting smaller since hall land are every expensive to rent out

li-po wil happen also b/less will happen
how long will it take .well that`s anyones guess

racing scene over here is very fragmented ,which is not nice atall
can`t go from one club to another with out changing or buying extra stuff to fit in ,then it`s the case of take it out of car & refit other bits

off-road rules on that one, Simple fit`s in box or not

if i knew li-po be legal next season ,then i wouldn`t of started the 5 cell banging on sesiion
If Stock is getting to fast...go to silvercan. Simple. I'm sure people would rather buy a $15 silvercan motor then invest in 3-4 new 5-cell battery packs at $50 a piece or destroy the 6-cell packs they have and wasted money on a few cells. Just my opinion and I race Silvercan Mini all the time. It's fun and more about driving then having the best stuff.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:37 AM   #195
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I can see where this conversation is going...

If you want a set of rules at national level or above you need to drive faster with a faster motor.

Drop the 27t stock, keep it for a regional event or junior. I think theres an under 11's that the BRCA should consider for the 27t, these guys (and girls) need an up and coming junior series to compete in before they move onto the faster stuff.

make racing a hobby for them, not just for the older generation who can already drive at speed, but choose not to. We know what our limits are when it comes to speed, the younger racers struggle with speed, so they need to concentrate on their lines more before they go for a hotter wind, by which time they are 18 and then they can start mixing it with the older more experienced racers.

You dont see a 17 year old on a Ducati 999 do you?
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