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Old 03-06-2007, 02:14 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
what ever way you look at it
a 5 cell powered motor will be cooler then a 6 cell motor after 5 mins .going by how the 19t was coming off on sunday ,lot cooler then the other 19t`s powerd by 6 cell

less volts = less heat
Dont get me wrong, im NOT disagreeing with you Colin but the fact is we have yet to have our summer... I dont know about you, but if you're racing in a sports hall this time of the year its not exactly a tshirt senario unless you have some sort of heating too. The floor in halls tends to be cold,and that transfers through the carpet, so the car/motor is next to cool surroundings.

Come summer, outdoors on a tarmac surface with the sun bounding down on it...

Maybe indoor racing in summer is even more detrimental to performance, if there is no air circulating in the said track area. So although your findings are good, all im saying is expect the motors to go up a little on the heat stakes as the months pass and the weather gets warmer, it will be interesting to see how much difference 1 cell can/could make...

My 6cell 19t was cool all day, but compared to if I used 5 cell with same car etc etc I dont know how much, but yes i'm certain 5 cell would yeald a cooler motor.

That took some explaining When the weather warms up the results will speak.
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:21 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Again wrong, we aren't in the case of the cells limiting the amp draw but the motor. If you can dump a 4200 pack with a mod motor in 5 minutes, it will equate to an average amp draw of 50A. And Wilst in 6 cell mod the IB 4200s are good, we still come close to dumping them.
i see motor's like a Dog eating Food
it doesn`t know when it had enough till it gets ill ,in the motors case very hot or thrown wind or wires coming apart




if disaster & BJ are wrong
Q)why are my motors & batts coming a LOT cooler then with 6 cell ???? after 5 min racing .............
answer on a post card in no more then 30 words
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:28 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
i see motor's like a Dog eating Food
it doesn`t know when it had enough till it gets ill ,in the motors case very hot or thrown wind or wires coming apart




if disaster & BJ are wrong
Q)why are my motors & batts coming a LOT cooler then with 6 cell ???? after 5 min racing .............
answer on a post card in no more then 30 words
Easy your not gearing them to go fast enough
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:28 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Dont get me wrong, im NOT disagreeing with you Colin but the fact is we have yet to have our summer... I dont know about you, but if you're racing in a sports hall this time of the year its not exactly a tshirt senario unless you have some sort of heating too. The floor in halls tends to be cold,and that transfers through the carpet, so the car/motor is next to cool surroundings.

Come summer, outdoors on a tarmac surface with the sun bounding down on it...

Maybe indoor racing in summer is even more detrimental to performance, if there is no air circulating in the said track area. So although your findings are good, all im saying is expect the motors to go up a little on the heat stakes as the months pass and the weather gets warmer, it will be interesting to see how much difference 1 cell can/could make...

My 6cell 19t was cool all day, but compared to if I used 5 cell with same car etc etc I dont know how much, but yes i'm certain 5 cell would yeald a cooler motor.

That took some explaining When the weather warms up the results will speak.

sorry didn`t mean to make you Explain yourself to me

ambient temp will be play a part
so yes summer with around 30c in the air will be nice
but with 5 cell running in that heat @1400g motors & Batts will come of cooler (lot more cooler) i really think you won`t need cooling aids to keep the heat in check

next meet though
i will measure the battery temp before & after 5 min race & also ambient temp at the meet i go too to see how warm the batts get in 27t
i will measure other racers aswell who use 6 cell


PS;;maritime have heating on .t-shirt place that is
c/wars is jumper & big coat indoor (unless in small hall..nice & warm)

brentwood ;;heating on T-shirt
WKRCC jumper jobby
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:31 AM   #170
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Are cells the weak link here?

Maybe 24 degrees of timing on a stock motor is too much for this day and age with the tuning we can put on them... we all know what happens with a modified when we crank up the timing

10 degrees timing anyone? Anyone tried it? I have an old modified can with bushings in if that was a fair test...

No harm in looking from the fence and seeing all the options I guess...
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:40 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Are cells the weak link here?

Maybe 24 degrees of timing on a stock motor is too much for this day and age with the tuning we can put on them... we all know what happens with a modified when we crank up the timing

10 degrees timing anyone? Anyone tried it? I have an old modified can with bushings in if that was a fair test...

No harm in looking from the fence and seeing all the options I guess...
nope the motors are the weak link
they can`t handle the power the batts & Speedo`s are delivering

if you drop the cell count to 5 this will help everyone including shops like Demon,Microtech etc
if you bring another type of stock motor then all these shops that sell 24 degree one have to restock & racers have to rebuy new motors

but by dropping 1 cell it cos`ts no-one any money to do it
it`s free,take 1 cell & your extra lead to get 1400g & your away ,shops still stay selling same gear as before
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:43 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Parker
Easy your not gearing them to go fast enough

you haven`t a clue have you !!!!!!!!
you actually don`t want to learn, so your willing to slag it off

so Explain in your way why a 5 cell will deliver more amps then 6 cell ???

me & the others have Explained our way ,your turn back @ ya
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:44 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
sorry didn`t mean to make you Explain yourself to me

ambient temp will be play a part
so yes summer with around 30c in the air will be nice
but with 5 cell running in that heat @1400g motors & Batts will come of cooler (lot more cooler) i really think you won`t need cooling aids to keep the heat in check

next meet though
i will measure the battery temp before & after 5 min race & also ambient temp at the meet i go too to see how warm the batts get in 27t
i will measure other racers aswell who use 6 cell


PS;;maritime have heating on .t-shirt place that is
c/wars is jumper & big coat indoor (unless in small hall..nice & warm)

brentwood ;;heating on T-shirt
WKRCC jumper jobby
Its ok, its a forum, im used to it lol

...wkrcc jumper jobby - not 'alf!

if you run 6 cell with the right gearing in a cold hall, I found I didnt need a fan. I was 1.9 secs behind Skiv, could have won it if it wasnt for the damn shakes lmao, but theres always things outside the lap times to consider... Im not usually at that pace being one of them

The more you look into heat and equipment the more you dig up. I dont want to get ahead of myself and claim to know the answers, but I can easily look at a given situation from a lot of angles
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:49 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
nope the motors are the weak link
they can`t handle the power the batts & Speedo`s are delivering

if you drop the cell count to 5 this will help everyone including shops like Demon,Microtech etc
if you bring another type of stock motor then all these shops that sell 24 degree one have to restock & racers have to rebuy new motors

but by dropping 1 cell it cos`ts no-one any money to do it
it`s free,take 1 cell & your extra lead to get 1400g & your away ,shops still stay selling same gear as before
I see the sense in that, would be another interesting "what if" situation though... As the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat...
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:13 AM   #175
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One thing that always makes me giggle, 150 esc, loads of settings, makes you coffee etc etc, so what do you do with power output... you set the limiter to 'off' and what does that do, cook your motor no matter what drive frequency you use, gearing, cooling (I realy REALY am not convinced on fans after trying many different ways of mounting them).

It is far simpler and cheaper just to go into your ESC settings and reduce the current limiter (Punch on some ESC's) so that you are not constantly overpowering a motor, a Stock needs a little less punch than a 19t, and a 19t little less than mod.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:42 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DA_cookie_monst
One thing that always makes me giggle, 150 esc, loads of settings, makes you coffee etc etc, so what do you do with power output... you set the limiter to 'off' and what does that do, cook your motor no matter what drive frequency you use, gearing, cooling (I realy REALY am not convinced on fans after trying many different ways of mounting them).

It is far simpler and cheaper just to go into your ESC settings and reduce the current limiter (Punch on some ESC's) so that you are not constantly overpowering a motor, a Stock needs a little less punch than a 19t, and a 19t little less than mod.

re Educating racers is very hard also 90% of them can`t be bothered

so this 1 cell drop will help those 90%
it`s the most cost Effective ,easy solution for things to stay reliable
But this is a `stop gap` solution for about the next 2- 3years

then brushless will be a lot cheaper & smaller ,so then every one will run that Equipment instead,
one thing will the racing get boring then if you have nothing to fiddle with between racing
every one like's to be a mechanic & Engine wizard aswell as a racer
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:03 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
re Educating racers is very hard also 90% of them can`t be bothered

so this 1 cell drop will help those 90%
it`s the most cost Effective ,easy solution for things to stay reliable
But this is a `stop gap` solution for about the next 2- 3years

then brushless will be a lot cheaper & smaller ,so then every one will run that Equipment instead,
one thing will the racing get boring then if you have nothing to fiddle with between racing
every one like's to be a mechanic & Engine wizard aswell as a racer
I am looking at both sides of things here- having raced for the best part of 13 years, I have come across people who do not want to learn,period.

And on the other end of the scale, people who will happily talk to me and let me setup their car.

All im saying is, look at every option. Do racers want to be forced into using 5 cells, or are we making things slower just to please reliability (and therefore cost) issues?

So far, conclusions are:

FACT things will get too confusing if we mix 5 and 6 cells with 27/19/modified

FACT whats good for one racer isnt always good for another

Thought:

Look at how F1, or any other major motorsport is structured. Can we learn anything (sensible lol) from it and adapt it to r/c?
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:15 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
...so this 1 cell drop will help those 90%
it`s the most cost Effective ,easy solution for things to stay reliable
But this is a `stop gap` solution for about the next 2- 3years

then brushless will be a lot cheaper & smaller ,so then every one will run that Equipment instead,
one thing will the racing get boring then if you have nothing to fiddle with between racing
every one like's to be a mechanic & Engine wizard aswell as a racer
I hope it doesn't take two more years for brushless to take off.

I'd like to think people will find lots of things to keep themselves busy with between races other than turning coms. How about watching their friends race? How about marshaling? Maybe people would actually communicate a little more...instead of being hunched over their equipment.
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:28 AM   #179
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i reckon 5 cell will make drivers even better drivers
Tim hancock agree`s he expected himself to be atleast a lap up on me after 5 mins not just 4 secs
and i`m telling you now my shakes are still here
Tims not slow either
you still have speed ,but it`s the way the 5 cell let`s you put it down on the track that makes it quick ,just more controllable
acts like a V8 instead of a peaky two stroke

this is why i`m using 5 cell where i go for now ,even when i go up west london I`ll asked permission to run 1400g/5 cell against the 6 cell/1500g brigade & see how it is there

but so far thumbs up
to many positives with running 5 cell @ this present time ,if we ran 5 cell 2 years ago then it would be slow as a spider crawling across a road ,but with these new 1.13+ cells coming

like to keep the proposal simple
1 cell count
1 weight (to be decided with the mod class @AGM 1400g is a comprimise between racers ho spend money for performance Enhancing products 7 racers who just want ot race period

positives
FACT;Everything is running cooler with 5 cells

FACT;; car is easier to race with on track & just as fast as 6 cell

FACT;;cheaper running cost`s (tyre`s,brush`s,less weight,less amps

FACT;it works & it works great

FACT;it cost no money to convert from 6cell/1500g to 5cell/1400g

Negative's
FACT;;gearing up the creek

FACT; speed freaks will suffer (but then they can go into 19t/5 cell)

FACT; coz i like it doesn`t mean it`s right

FACT;racers will have to change there way's

FACT;if the 5cell/mod guys @ the nats start killing cells then scap this idea
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:30 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disaster
I hope it doesn't take two more years for brushless to take off.

I'd like to think people will find lots of things to keep themselves busy with between races other than turning coms. How about watching their friends race? How about marshaling? Maybe people would actually communicate a little more...instead of being hunched over their equipment.
very true
maybe 1 year then

but the communicating bit is missing a lot ,must admit ,so 5 cell will help that bit a little ,not as much as b/less though
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