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Old 03-05-2007, 08:47 AM   #151
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Just looking at all the angles here.... Ambient temperatures etc all play their part too, not just cells and motors so....

As it wont be long until summer and outdoor tracks will soon be on the agenda, I dont think we are getting the full picture just yet... Im not trying to be difficult here, just being what could be seen as realistic.

But the results so far are interesting to watch
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Old 03-05-2007, 09:02 AM   #152
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sunday
19t class
carpet vtech 24r rubber
Komodo 19t 6 cell FDR is around the 7.7 mark ,C2 7.3

5 cell 6.3-6.5 FD19t C2 6.3-6.5 FDR

looking back i think i cocked up gearing on this meet by undergearing the motors on both accounts
should of dropped into the high 5`s espiacially the C2
but i`m learning very quickly

Round 1 CAR 2 is me TQ & fast man is Tim Hancock CAR 5

Pos Car Arc Name Result Ave Best
1 5 124 Tim Hancock 27 / 310.13 11.48 10.84
2 2 115 Colin Witt 26 / 306.85 11.80 11.23
3 4 3 Grant Riddall 25 / 300.46 12.01 11.35
4 1 2 Dave Mills 25 / 310.75 12.43 11.18
5 6 31 Mike Spurway 24 / 301.07 12.54 11.67
6 3 50 Alex Boniface 13 / 156.31 12.02 11.30

Lap Times
Lap Car 1 Car 2 Car 3 Car 4 Car 5 Car 6
1 14.79 13.16 11.64 11.65 12.29 12.52
2 12.33 11.60 12.03 12.16 11.52 11.88
3 17.46 11.29 11.45 13.86 11.08 12.35
4 11.60 12.00 11.34 12.34 11.45 13.21
5 11.34 11.41 12.18 12.00 11.76 11.93
6 11.71 11.55 12.99 11.85 11.55 11.95
7 11.18 11.23 11.83 11.87 10.99 12.04
8 13.32 12.01 12.03 12.20 12.07 13.04
9 15.57 11.48 11.30 11.62 11.13 11.99
10 11.67 11.34 11.69 11.95 11.27 12.74
11 11.78 12.30 12.70 11.60 10.84 13.64
12 11.56 11.91 11.53 11.91 11.14 13.44
13 12.17 13.56 13.60 12.08 11.29 13.00
14 11.82 11.71 12.69 10.90 12.77
15 11.70 11.65 12.11 11.35 12.45
16 12.43 11.80 12.08 10.89 11.73
17 11.97 11.37 12.75 11.65 12.64
18 11.89 11.34 11.71 11.52 12.40
19 14.84 11.71 11.51 11.21 14.03
20 12.05 11.40 12.47 11.17 11.85
21 11.27 12.14 11.47 15.71 13.60
22 11.67 12.31 11.53 11.27 11.86
23 11.50 11.53 11.58 11.55 12.34
24 11.80 11.34 11.35 11.19 11.67
25 11.33 12.08 12.12 11.11
2 11.63 11.01
27 11.22
28


ROUND 2


Pos Car Arc Name Impr Result Ave Best
1 5 12Tim Hancock YES 27 / 306.34 11.34 10.66
2 2 115 Colin Witt YES 26 / 300.88 11.57 11.08
3 1 2 Dave Mills YES 26 / 309.46 11.90 11.16
4 6 3Mike Spurway YES 25 / 304.47 12.17 11.49
5 3 5Alex Boniface YES 25 / 307.07 12.28 11.27
6 4 3 Grant Riddall 4 / 55.60 13.90 11.69

Lap Times
Lap Car 1 Car 2 Car 3 Car 4 Car 5 Car 6
1 12.37 11.23 14.3111.69 11.38 12.91
2 11.64 11.08 12.08 14.19 10.81 12.83
3 11.70 11.42 12.25 12.15 13.26 11.80
4 11.43 11.90 11.62 17.57 11.59 12.45
5 11.39 11.44 11.41 11.50 12.62
6 11.52 11.97 11.40 11.43 12.43
7 11.68 11.91 11.54 11.17 12.25
8 11.55 11.62 11.81 10.94 11.74
9 12.89 11.55 12.60 11.10 11.99
10 11.78 11.54 11.45 13.64 11.93
11 11.76 12.01 11.60 11.12 13.02
12 11.29 11.46 11.72 11.33 12.67
13 11.51 11.39 11.42 10.85 11.49
14 11.98 11.37 11.31 10.88 11.59
15 12.44 11.50 12.77 10.84 11.63
16 11.55 11.35 13.17 11.13 11.99
17 15.99 11.40 12.04 10.66 11.71
18 11.42 11.72 11.90 10.87 12.31
19 11.22 12.20 11.61 13.00 11.79
20 12.11 11.30 11.27 11.23 11.77
21 11.79 11.40 11.64 11.15 12.00
22 11.46 11.41 20.72 10.81 12.76
23 11.53 11.51 11.69 11.28 12.07
24 11.94 11.58 11.76 10.94 12.57
25 12.36 11.73 11.98 11.05 12.15
26 11.16 11.89 11.32
27 11.06
28

ROUND 3
Pos Car Arc Name Impr Result Ave Best
1 5 124 Tim Hancock YES 27 / 300.00 11.11 10.75
2 2 115 Colin Witt YES 27 / 304.79 11.28 10.93
3 3 50 Alex Boniface YES 26 / 301.82 11.60 11.02
4 1 2 Dave Mills YES 26 / 307.79 11.83 11.04
5 6 31 Mike Spurway 24 / 300.12 12.50 11.58
6 4 3 Grant Riddall 6 / 75.26 12.54 11.61

Lap Times
Lap Car 1 Car 2 Car 3 Car 4 Car 5 Car 6
1 13.25 11.52 12.00 11.98 11.03 13.48
2 11.04 11.16 13.72 12.00 10.75 12.68
3 11.12 11.25 11.16 12.13 11.21 11.58
4 11.07 11.48 12.14 11.96 10.88 11.75
5 11.31 11.73 11.73 11.61 11.24 17.11
6 15.99 11.28 11.07 15.58 11.10 12.08
7 12.36 11.21 11.50 11.32 12.06
8 11.41 11.10 11.55 11.23 11.76
9 11.26 11.15 11.35 11.14 12.00
10 11.38 11.48 11.02 11.40 12.08
11 11.60 11.27 11.46 11.20 12.18
12 12.37 11.73 11.66 11.49 11.82
13 11.47 11.00 11.58 11.03 12.58
14 11.45 11.35 13.41 11.19 11.91
15 11.16 10.93 11.12 11.88 11.97
16 11.08 11.71 11.14 10.80 11.69
17 11.80 11.05 11.66 11.20 12.61
18 11.55 11.48 11.05 10.94 11.99
19 14.30 11.30 11.38 11.00 13.78
20 12.32 10.97 11.49 10.97 11.76
21 11.46 11.44 11.26 11.20 12.46
22 11.06 11.03 11.33 11.08 14.10
23 11.21 11.16 12.45 10.97 12.68
24 11.24 11.29 11.28 10.81 12.01
25 11.87 11.50 11.10 11.02
26 11.66 11.17 11.21 11.00
27 11.05 10.92
28


A Final

av
1 1 124 Tim Hancock 28 / 307.50 10.98
2 3 50 Alex Boniface 27 / 300.89 11.14
3 5 2 Dave Mills 27 / 308.51 11.41
4 4 110 Terry Edleston27 / 309.05 11.44
5 6 3 Grant Riddall 26 / 311.88 11.99
6 2 115 Colin Witt 25 / 310.18 12.40

Lap Times
LapCar 1 Car 2 Car 3 Car 4 Car 5 Car 6
1 5.68 8.43 6.99 6.17 7.37 7.25
2 11.11 11.38 12.52 11.38 12.62 13.96
3 10.97 11.28 11.24 12.08 11.22 11.93
4 11.06 11.49 11.39 12.15 14.54 13.40
5 11.06 11.45 11.15 11.68 11.50 11.51
6 11.08 11.61 11.22 11.72 11.42 11.44
7 11.12 13.79 11.33 11.15 11.13 11.32
8 11.25 13.16 11.36 11.23 11.03 11.14
9 10.92 11.64 11.23 11.40 11.03 12.13
10 11.15 14.08 10.86 14.67 11.34 11.83
11 11.04 12.70 11.13 12.94 11.30 11.34
12 11.42 15.78 11.05 11.05 11.19 11.23
13 10.80 19.33 11.38 10.88 11.21 11.98
14 11.18 11.13 11.14 11.67 11.91 11.09
15 11.01 11.72 11.17 11.59 10.88 12.38
16 11.54 11.40 11.17 11.16 12.51 12.92
17 11.26 10.90 11.42 11.90 11.70 12.82
18 12.75 11.67 11.35 13.12 11.03 11.25
19 11.08 11.40 11.15 11.37 11.34 11.74
20 10.94 11.17 11.61 11.10 11.00 11.76
21 11.38 11.11 11.16 11.51 11.88 11.75
22 10.97 11.06 11.34 11.52 11.08 11.16
23 10.93 13.78 11.56 10.95 11.24 11.83
24 10.84 16.94 11.01 11.40 11.69 11.67
25 11.52 11.78 11.06 11.08 11.62 16.15
26 11.16 11.65 10.92 12.52 14.90
27 11.50 11.25 11.26 11.21
28 10.78
29


27t guys were ...6 cell 1500g s
Pos Arc Name Result Ave Best
1 125 Darren Simpson 26 / 305.78 11.76 11.28
2 54 Stuart Colby 26 / 310.79 11.95 11.36
3 7 James Brooker 25 / 303.45 12.13 11.58
4 126 Glen Relf 25 / 306.90 12.27 11.83
5 128 Clive Bonner 25 / 308.58 12.34 11.96



cells again same 1 pack as the the other 2 eve`s of racing

i was putting around 2100mah back in 4 times it done this 3 Q & 1 Final for 19t racing
1500mah back in for 27t

i` am pretty sure i have to like around 2000mah back in when i was using 6 cell format
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Last edited by MR JOLLY; 03-06-2007 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:18 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Just looking at all the angles here.... Ambient temperatures etc all play their part too, not just cells and motors so....

As it wont be long until summer and outdoor tracks will soon be on the agenda, I dont think we are getting the full picture just yet... Im not trying to be difficult here, just being what could be seen as realistic.

But the results so far are interesting to watch
what ever way you look at it
a 5 cell powered motor will be cooler then a 6 cell motor after 5 mins .going by how the 19t was coming off on sunday ,lot cooler then the other 19t`s powerd by 6 cell

less volts = less heat
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:33 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
what ever way you look at it
a 5 cell powered motor will be cooler then a 6 cell motor after 5 mins .going by how the 19t was coming off on sunday ,lot cooler then the other 19t`s powerd by 6 cell

less volts = less heat
But more amps Colin

Did you check the temp readings or are you just guessing?
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:55 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THancock
I was racing with Mr Jolly on Sunday. I was running 19t 6 cell and I TQ'ed just 4 seconds ahead of him! Admittedly, he is a much better driver than I am and there was nothing between us on the infield, if anything, he was able to keep better lines and his speed up even more because of the lower weight. I definately had the advantage of a little extra punch and over a 30 mtr straight, I had about 2 metres on him. His motor came off barely warm! It must also be said he used only 1 pack of cells all day (3 rounds, 1 final) and yet still had pretty good performance levels.

I was very impressed to say the least.
and he wasen`t the only one Nathan (sorry it`s going through

no guessing here ,you might guess ,but i done it to prove to you & others it works ,I will be using 5 cell for another couple of weeks Too. mainley on gearing setups for 27t & 19t

sorry nathan not more amps ,cars weighs a lot less 1400gs so less power loss,less load, less amp draw (as i see it ), less heat

finger checking & it was a lot cooler then 6 cell racing
also less mah into my pack after racing in 27t & 19t
27t 1500mah fro 5 cell, can be like (1900mah-200mah )ish) 6 cell
19t around the 2000mah + mark for 5 cell


just waiting for maritime to stick thurs race times up so i can show the world how fast or slow you were going in 3 Q with 5 cell

basically this system will slow the fast guy`s down & speed average Joe up

fast guys will lose the edge in controlling very fast cars
average joe will drive better lines & control the car better ,so the gap between fast & slow guys will shrink
but fast guy`s can go off to the 19t class & leave the 27t to the newbies & average joe`s of this world ,then they will have there `speed` fix
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Old 03-05-2007, 01:21 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Parker
But more amps Colin

?
how can a 5 cell have more amps then 6 cell ????
answer that one
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Old 03-05-2007, 01:28 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
how can a 5 cell have more amps then 6 cell ????
answer that one

The Motor draws more amps from less Cells
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Old 03-05-2007, 01:30 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
and he wasen`t the only one Nathan (sorry it`s going through

no guessing here ,you might guess ,but i done it to prove to you & others it works ,I will be using 5 cell for another couple of weeks Too. mainley on gearing setups for 27t & 19t

sorry nathan not more amps ,cars weighs a lot less 1400gs so less power loss,less load, less amp draw (as i see it ), less heat

finger checking & it was a lot cooler then 6 cell racing
also less mah into my pack after racing in 27t & 19t
27t 1500mah fro 5 cell, can be like (1900mah-200mah )ish) 6 cell
19t around the 2000mah + mark for 5 cell


just waiting for maritime to stick thurs race times up so i can show the world how fast or slow you were going in 3 Q with 5 cell

basically this system will slow the fast guy`s down & speed average Joe up

fast guys will lose the edge in controlling very fast cars
average joe will drive better lines & control the car better ,so the gap between fast & slow guys will shrink
but fast guy`s can go off to the 19t class & leave the 27t to the newbies & average joe`s of this world ,then they will have there `speed` fix
Not sure its really going to slow the fast guys down Colin as most of the time we gain is in Corner speed and really having less power is going to exploit that even more

My fastest lap thursday last week with 6 cell was 9.48 and 5 cell was 9.77 so really not a huge difference and that was without Balancing the Chassis just taking the weight out.

Lets see the full results from thursday and draw some conclusions.
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Old 03-05-2007, 02:59 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Parker
The Motor draws more amps from less Cells
5 cell is inherently less amps then 6 cells
so explian nathan your theory on more amps from less cells ????
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Old 03-05-2007, 03:05 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Parker
Not sure its really going to slow the fast guys down Colin as most of the time we gain is in Corner speed and really having less power is going to exploit that even more

My fastest lap thursday last week with 6 cell was 9.48 and 5 cell was 9.77 so really not a huge difference and that was without Balancing the Chassis just taking the weight out.

Lets see the full results from thursday and draw some conclusions.
you only done 1 run without setting your self up & your being neagative about it

i`ve done 3 meetings so far 2 in 27t 1 -19t
and a few more this week & next

this is like the lipo situ with you nathan
you haven`t tried it properly ,don`t know anything about it ,have not got facts & you don`t want change
and yet i have & your still trying to make out you know more

Just take on board what i have found ,i have facts & figures
what have you got ,Empty Air

as a really good eastbourne guy said ,just go out & use it in the flesh
that is better then trying to use the forums to convince racers ,do it via trackside & show them how it is

so your just awkward
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Old 03-05-2007, 04:06 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Parker
The Motor draws more amps from less Cells

WRONG!!!!

simple ohms law I =V/R and since R never changes as this is the motor.
Can't measure a motor at the moment but lets say it's 0.5 ohm for arguments sake.

so 6 cell is 7.2v / 0.5 ohm = 14.4 amp
5 cell is 6.0v / 0.5 ohm = 12 amp.

A motor can only draw on what the 'source' will allow, in this case the batteries.

5 cell less amp draw
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Old 03-05-2007, 04:31 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
WRONG!!!!

simple ohms law I =V/R and since R never changes as this is the motor.
Can't measure a motor at the moment but lets say it's 0.5 ohm for arguments sake.

so 6 cell is 7.2v / 0.5 ohm = 14.4 amp
5 cell is 6.0v / 0.5 ohm = 12 amp.

A motor can only draw on what the 'source' will allow, in this case the batteries.

5 cell less amp draw
You would want to know the resistance of the batteries and motor and ESC...all part of the circuit.

I agree you would expect more cells (which have more potential) to drive more current (as long as you aren't at the current limit.)

Todays subC cells are capable of what....30-40amps? Are we near draw rate with 6 cell packs an stock motors? How about 19T mods?
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Old 03-05-2007, 04:48 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
WRONG!!!!

simple ohms law I =V/R and since R never changes as this is the motor.
Can't measure a motor at the moment but lets say it's 0.5 ohm for arguments sake.

so 6 cell is 7.2v / 0.5 ohm = 14.4 amp
5 cell is 6.0v / 0.5 ohm = 12 amp.

A motor can only draw on what the 'source' will allow, in this case the batteries.

5 cell less amp draw
WRONG

You cannot quote Ohm's law by itself to describe the behaviour of a motor.
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Old 03-05-2007, 04:53 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disaster
You would want to know the resistance of the batteries and motor and ESC...all part of the circuit.

I agree you would expect more cells (which have more potential) to drive more current (as long as you aren't at the current limit.)

Todays subC cells are capable of what....30-40amps? Are we near draw rate with 6 cell packs an stock motors? How about 19T mods?
Again wrong, we aren't in the case of the cells limiting the amp draw but the motor. If you can dump a 4200 pack with a mod motor in 5 minutes, it will equate to an average amp draw of 50A. And Wilst in 6 cell mod the IB 4200s are good, we still come close to dumping them.
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Old 03-06-2007, 01:35 AM   #165
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so who is right then re;;amp draw for 6 cell vs 5 cell

i`ve run both types in the last week or so

Made 3 A finals @ 3 meetings
i`m just as suprised you lot with the speed of the 5 cell

all cells have resistence of some sort
so with 5 cell having less connecters then 6 cell ,5 cell wins on that one

also 6 cell batts get hotter when raced then 5 cell (fact)
reason i believe is because 6 cell delivers more amp to the motor ,when needed,so 6 cell gets hotter due the demand the motor wants thus cells get hotter draws more amps ,loses amps through heat generated by amps thus your 6 cell packs get a severe beating

5 cell can`t deliver as much amp as 6 cell ,just phsyically impossible (6v vs 7.2v)
but since weight of car is lower ,less mass to pull around ,motors does not geta as hot ,less amps is needed to get going ,cells stay cooler so IR stays lower & the 5 cell stays more efficient in amp delivery & i suspect the 5 cell will deliver more amps then 6 cell @ end of race due to the fact 5 cells stay cooler

this confirmed by the fact i`m not using as much mah with 5 cell racing then with 6 cell racing
1500mah in 27t /5 cell vs 2000mah 27t/6 cell racing

you are losing so much energy from heat in 6 cell ,coz the motors & cars can`t phsyically get round the track any faster ,since the designs are donkeys years old , but battery`s are way ahead in the techno department

IE;;6 cell dumps buckets of amps on to motor (more power ,more punch)
5 cell dumps bottles of amps on to motor (less power,more controlled)

you could say i`m not a good tester
it should be done with a fast top driver to see what`s what
difference is
i actually got of my arse & done it ,as opposed to bashing the keyboard (nathan )

nathan
going to answer why you think 5 cell draws more amps
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