Reedy Race of Champions
05-28-2007, 09:34 PM
#616
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace
If you ever raced more than every 6 months you might get a feel for how the whole tire situation works. I dont care if someone has the best setup in the world for 3rd run tires if the track likes new tires you will be off the pace, and usually by a good bit. Also there may be a limit on tires for racing but for practice you can run as many as you want, and if you have the money to run new tires for every practice run it will help greatly on setting up your car for racing on new tires.
Also I think I can speak for my boy Cuffs here and say we and many others are not hiding behind foam. We prefer it over Rubber, that is all.
Also I think I can speak for my boy Cuffs here and say we and many others are not hiding behind foam. We prefer it over Rubber, that is all.
OK so I am going to blow a ton of money to set my car on new tires and then only be given a few set of tires for the race and see how I do???
Get over it, I think you would work on the set up for the reruns and get the car to perform as best it can with them. You already know what the car is going to do on fresh kicks. Granted the track conditions may change but if there is a tire rule and you set the car to run on fresh kicks all the time you are screwed.
I am out of here, I need to get up in 4 hours to go to work
Later
Kevin Boyle
05-28-2007, 09:48 PM
#617
Larry and Jeff - You tell me. How big you you run your foams? 55.6mm with wraps at big races...even smaller with non wraps? How many runs you you get...1 or 2?
Even at club races with less traction smaller tires are still faster.
Lets say that you keep your tires big for club races..then you have the opposite problem of rubber tires. They are slow at first then get faster as they get smaller. Serious racers with deep pockets will always true their tires smaller and thus they have an advantage.
On asphalt how long a rubber tire lasts depends on two things. The track's abrasiveness and the cars setup. At the Nats at Speedworld last year Rick Hohwart TQ'd the last round on 3rd run tires agains guys running new and 2nd run tires. Speedworld is not an abrasive track and Rick's 415 was dialed so tire wear was not much of an issue.
On carpet rubber tire wear is minimal. The latest rubber tires can be fast for a crap load of runs. CS27's used with Paragon can be fast for weeks worth of club races. More agressive tires like Sorex,Pit Shimzu and RP series tires can get gummy after 3-4 runs but if you let them air out overnight they are fast again.
This is with Paragon. If you use Jack the Gripper, Tire Tweak or Niftec the tires will stay fast and last 10x longer as these compounds are not as agressive on the rubber.
Even at club races with less traction smaller tires are still faster.
Lets say that you keep your tires big for club races..then you have the opposite problem of rubber tires. They are slow at first then get faster as they get smaller. Serious racers with deep pockets will always true their tires smaller and thus they have an advantage.
On asphalt how long a rubber tire lasts depends on two things. The track's abrasiveness and the cars setup. At the Nats at Speedworld last year Rick Hohwart TQ'd the last round on 3rd run tires agains guys running new and 2nd run tires. Speedworld is not an abrasive track and Rick's 415 was dialed so tire wear was not much of an issue.
On carpet rubber tire wear is minimal. The latest rubber tires can be fast for a crap load of runs. CS27's used with Paragon can be fast for weeks worth of club races. More agressive tires like Sorex,Pit Shimzu and RP series tires can get gummy after 3-4 runs but if you let them air out overnight they are fast again.
This is with Paragon. If you use Jack the Gripper, Tire Tweak or Niftec the tires will stay fast and last 10x longer as these compounds are not as agressive on the rubber.
05-28-2007, 09:52 PM
#618
Tech Fanatic
U.S. drivers are not "hiding behind foam" at the expense of running rubber. The market over here happens to have a long and very active carpet season that can be quite lucrative to car manufacturers. These companies are not foolish and they understand the significance of competing at these foam tire events. Every company must protect their own interests and if they choose to send their drivers to these races, I'm sure they feel they can justify the effort.
It is no more fair to condemn the American drivers for being "uncompetitive" than it is to demean the efforts of the drivers who did well. Marc didn't win because the U.S. drivers were not on their game. He won because his driving and car were superior this weekend.
It is no more fair to condemn the American drivers for being "uncompetitive" than it is to demean the efforts of the drivers who did well. Marc didn't win because the U.S. drivers were not on their game. He won because his driving and car were superior this weekend.
05-28-2007, 09:56 PM
#619
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Larry and Jeff - You tell me. How big you you run your foams? 55.6mm with wraps at big races...even smaller with non wraps? How many runs you you get...1 or 2?
Even at club races with less traction smaller tires are still faster.
Lets say that you keep your tires big for club races..then you have the opposite problem of rubber tires. They are slow at first then get faster as they get smaller. Serious racers with deep pockets will always true their tires smaller and thus they have an advantage.
On asphalt how long a rubber tire lasts depends on two things. The track's abrasiveness and the cars setup. At the Nats at Speedworld last year Rick Hohwart TQ'd the last round on 3rd run tires agains guys running new and 2nd run tires. Speedworld is not an abrasive track and Rick's 415 was dialed so tire wear was not much of an issue.
On carpet rubber tire wear is minimal. The latest rubber tires can be fast for a crap load of runs. CS27's used with Paragon can be fast for weeks worth of club races. More agressive tires like Sorex,Pit Shimzu and RP series tires can get gummy after 3-4 runs but if you let them air out overnight they are fast again.
This is with Paragon. If you use Jack the Gripper, Tire Tweak or Niftec the tires will stay fast and last 10x longer as these compounds are not as agressive on the rubber.
Even at club races with less traction smaller tires are still faster.
Lets say that you keep your tires big for club races..then you have the opposite problem of rubber tires. They are slow at first then get faster as they get smaller. Serious racers with deep pockets will always true their tires smaller and thus they have an advantage.
On asphalt how long a rubber tire lasts depends on two things. The track's abrasiveness and the cars setup. At the Nats at Speedworld last year Rick Hohwart TQ'd the last round on 3rd run tires agains guys running new and 2nd run tires. Speedworld is not an abrasive track and Rick's 415 was dialed so tire wear was not much of an issue.
On carpet rubber tire wear is minimal. The latest rubber tires can be fast for a crap load of runs. CS27's used with Paragon can be fast for weeks worth of club races. More agressive tires like Sorex,Pit Shimzu and RP series tires can get gummy after 3-4 runs but if you let them air out overnight they are fast again.
This is with Paragon. If you use Jack the Gripper, Tire Tweak or Niftec the tires will stay fast and last 10x longer as these compounds are not as agressive on the rubber.
Adrian i get more then 2 runs out of tires even at big races and if you dont beleive me ask paul. I won vegas two years ago with hand me down tires that he gave me that he said was done.
05-28-2007, 09:56 PM
#620
I dont mean any disrespect here, but when was the last time Adrian ran foam tires more than 1 time a year and when was the last time Boyle ran rubber, foam or anything touring car? Im not over on the Airplane forum posting my opinions becasue they would not be valid.
Oh and I agree with what jack said. Foam is bigger in the US. therefore alot of racers and companies concentrate on it more. 6 big foam races 2 big asphalt races. Not to figure out what is more important to most people.
Oh and I agree with what jack said. Foam is bigger in the US. therefore alot of racers and companies concentrate on it more. 6 big foam races 2 big asphalt races. Not to figure out what is more important to most people.
05-28-2007, 10:02 PM
#621
Originally Posted by Dasupacat1
Wow. Those international drivers spanked everyone here on our own soil. What does that say for the U.S. drivers?
05-28-2007, 10:13 PM
#622
The Tamiya track has always been extremely abrasive. It's murder on rubber tires. I don't care if it's a RP30 or a Sorex tire. Other tracks I've raced on don't wear out RP30's anywhere near as bad. Yes, they do still fall off a little bit. But nothing like they do at the Tamiya track. Guys in Europe and Asia run nothing but rubber tires (for the most part) and have to deal with tires dropping off after a run or two and know how to compensate for it. We don't. Mainly for some of the reasons that everyone is saying they prefer foams. Foams don't fall off after a run. So there's no need to compensate for it. So we don't learn how to deal with it. Until we have more outdoor rubber tire races in the States, we'll be lacking when it comes to running on used tires.
That being said, I do think the Invite class should still be a handout tire, but they should have 8 sets, not 4. Mainly for the spectators. IMO this will make the racing that much tighter because you won't end up with half of the field in each heat on used tires and half on fresh tires. I doubt there's a driver in the invite class who has to pay for their own tires so the cost of it shouldn't be an issue. You won't really end up with the two car breakaways we tend to see a lot with the 4 set rule.
That being said, I do think the Invite class should still be a handout tire, but they should have 8 sets, not 4. Mainly for the spectators. IMO this will make the racing that much tighter because you won't end up with half of the field in each heat on used tires and half on fresh tires. I doubt there's a driver in the invite class who has to pay for their own tires so the cost of it shouldn't be an issue. You won't really end up with the two car breakaways we tend to see a lot with the 4 set rule.
05-28-2007, 10:16 PM
#623
Also adding to Adrians post the drivers style also comes into to play wether he is aggressive or smooth, and for sure the smoother driver gets better wear.
An improperly set up car, and or an aggresive driver will shred tires up aswell in foam!
An improperly set up car, and or an aggresive driver will shred tires up aswell in foam!
05-28-2007, 10:22 PM
#624
Originally Posted by STLNLST
There's no excuse for the beating we took as Americans,,,,but after talking to a couple of driver's in the invite (which I won't name) we all have the following questions......If this is the US Reedy race...why not run US rules? It's not an excuse but most of these guys had to scramble and work on their 5 cell set up, get a brushless speedo and practice racing differently than we do all year here in the states. Reedy race Asia doesn't bend their rules to fit US driver's attending the race. Why do we? I'm all for the great racing but we run 6 cell here currently and 40 band isn't legal for our guys to use but it's okay just for the Reedy??? This may sound like bitter words or crying over spilled milk but these are legit questions that no one seems to want to answer. The world is going to the brushless side more and more but the invite guys didn't have the choice to run 5 or 6 cells as we did in open mod. Put your brushed motor sponsors to the side because everyone was running some sort of brushless system in the invite class.
05-28-2007, 10:33 PM
#628
I run exclusivly on rubber, and I don't feel it's any expensive if you do it right.
Final: 1set of new tire
Qualify: previous-final-tire
Practice: previous-qualify-tire
The most important thing is: once you finish the race, clean tires than seal them into air-proof bag. Rubber grip will decade as contact with air (O2 I guess), so seal them in air-proof bag would keep the grip much much longer than leave it in air. Also, store them in dark/steady-temp environment would help too.
Also, new Sorex (golden label) seems last longer than old Sorex (red label), with bit more grip. I just start using them so it's hard to tell if they are indeed improved.
Final: 1set of new tire
Qualify: previous-final-tire
Practice: previous-qualify-tire
The most important thing is: once you finish the race, clean tires than seal them into air-proof bag. Rubber grip will decade as contact with air (O2 I guess), so seal them in air-proof bag would keep the grip much much longer than leave it in air. Also, store them in dark/steady-temp environment would help too.
Also, new Sorex (golden label) seems last longer than old Sorex (red label), with bit more grip. I just start using them so it's hard to tell if they are indeed improved.
05-28-2007, 10:49 PM
#629
I was there Saturday... anybody up for some photos?
http://www.jbphotography.smugmug.com...8861#157253822
Hara fresh off a victory from an amazing last-turn pass
I've also got a couple of desktop wallpapers up from this event...http://jbphotography.smugmug.com/gal...3468#157202085. I might add some more later this week.
http://www.jbphotography.smugmug.com...8861#157253822
Hara fresh off a victory from an amazing last-turn pass
I've also got a couple of desktop wallpapers up from this event...http://jbphotography.smugmug.com/gal...3468#157202085. I might add some more later this week.
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