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Old 02-13-2007, 12:39 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by teamgp
We can agree somewhat then. Per my post above I have the driver at #2 and the chassis at #3. Driver skill does mean more.

However, the chassis and its inherent setup possibilities (including model TC's) are more important than you make them out to be.

You sound like an independent engineer. Why don't you find out which one is faster for you and let us know. I doubt you'll be *consistently* faster with an older TC3 or T1EVOII (with any setup) than you will be with a newer TC5, T2'007, RDX or even the new Schui.

I also doubt you'll be faster on asphalt/rubber with a 007 US edition than if you used a 007 EU edition as well. They look pretty similar right?
Sure that would be nice if I could afford all those...like most...I can't. I base it all on what I see every week at the track and not what I read here or in magazines where every has an "opinion". Sorry if I don't just spout the newest rhetoric printed in the shiny brochures. Maybe our track is different and every other track has the hot new chassis (ie..XRAY) win all the time and old chassis are always finishing last but I doubt it. Driving skill pays more dividends then anything else. Like I keep saying...you can have the best but if someone outdrives you..you still LOSE regardless of any other factor.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:06 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
Sure that would be nice if I could afford all those...like most...I can't. I base it all on what I see every week at the track and not what I read here or in magazines where every has an "opinion". Sorry if I don't just spout the newest rhetoric printed in the shiny brochures. Maybe our track is different and every other track has the hot new chassis (ie..XRAY) win all the time and old chassis are always finishing last but I doubt it. Driving skill pays more dividends then anything else. Like I keep saying...you can have the best but if someone outdrives you..you still LOSE regardless of any other factor.
And if your wheel nut falls off...you still lose? And if the negative spring on your motor sticks...you still lose? And if your wing comes off after someone hits you from behind...you still lose? And if your tire chunks...you still lose?

None of those have anything to do with driver skill. And I certainly think that the tires used pay more dividends than driver skill.

Come on man. Stop hatin. Its not all rhetoric. What you see at one track can't be superimposed on all others. What you see with one driver/chassis can't be applied to all.

Now my point is AGAIN, that if two drivers...heck lets say the SAME driver were to use two different chassis and have ample time to test and find the optimum setup for each, one will definitely be faster than the other. And I can almost guarantee that you can tie the difference in performance to the differences in chassis that you say are insignificant.

Ever seen a bottom A main driver with a newer chassis beat the best driver with an older chassis at a track. I have. More than once. Chassis & setup can make up for a lack of driver skill. Some but of course certainly not all.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:15 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgp
And if your wheel nut falls off...you still lose? And if the negative spring on your motor sticks...you still lose? And if your wing comes off after someone hits you from behind...you still lose? And if your tire chunks...you still lose?

None of those have anything to do with driver skill. And I certainly think that the tires used pay more dividends than driver skill.

Come on man. Stop hatin. Its not all rhetoric. What you see at one track can't be superimposed on all others. What you see with one driver/chassis can't be applied to all.

Now my point is AGAIN, that if two drivers...heck lets say the SAME driver were to use two different chassis and have ample time to test and find the optimum setup for each, one will definitely be faster than the other. And I can almost guarantee that you can tie the difference in performance to the differences in chassis that you say are insignificant.

Ever seen a bottom A main driver with a newer chassis beat the best driver with an older chassis at a track. I have. More than once. Chassis & setup can make up for a lack of driver skill. Some but of course certainly not all.
With your first points...yep and that's why they all go above chassis too. As for the rest..yep seen a bottom A main driver with a newer chassis beat a top guy with an older chassis...I've also seen a guy with a TC3 only raced locally beat a guy with a new Xray T2(blah) who races nationally AND I've seen a guy in a TA05 beat a guy in an XRay and Corally and they are both very skilled drivers. But of course my examples hold less validity because....well they don't. They are just as valid because the most important factor is DRIVER SKILL. It's that simple, don't see what's so difficult about understanding that.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:23 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
With your first points...yep and that's why they all go above chassis too. As for the rest..yep seen a bottom A main driver with a newer chassis beat a top guy with an older chassis...I've also seen a guy with a TC3 only raced locally beat a guy with a new Xray T2(blah) who races nationally AND I've seen a guy in a TA05 beat a guy in an XRay and Corally and they are both very skilled drivers. But of course my examples hold less validity because....well they don't. They are just as valid because the most important factor is DRIVER SKILL. It's that simple, don't see what's so difficult about understanding that.
But thats not the point you were actually making earlier on. Your point earlier was:

"...It's 99.9999999% driver. Chassis little to no difference to a Pro and even less to a novice..."

Now thats a stretch. Then came:

"...all the top chassis are pretty much the same...",
"...they're all close enough...", and
"...but they can all be overcome by driving ability..."

None of those statements are true at all.

Again, IMO #1 is tires, #2 is driver #3 is chassis and so on...
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:31 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgp
But thats not the point you were actually making earlier on. Your point earlier was:

"...It's 99.9999999% driver. Chassis little to no difference to a Pro and even less to a novice..."

Now thats a stretch. Then came:

"...all the top chassis are pretty much the same...",
"...they're all close enough...", and
"...but they can all be overcome by driving ability..."

None of those statements are true at all.

Again, IMO #1 is tires, #2 is driver #3 is chassis and so on...

Actually, they're all true. You have yet to bring up a real world situation that can't be refuted or attributed to driver ability.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:37 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
Actually, they're all true. You have yet to bring up a real world situation that can't be refuted or attributed to driver ability.
Define 'real world situation'. The onus isn't on me to support my position.

You took a stand and have yet to support your position with any concrete evidence other than heresay about isolated incidents.

I'm good with my position, that came in response to yours. And am fairly confident that I don't need to provide a 'real world situation' to support it.

I still luv ya for speaking your mind though.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:38 PM   #127
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You need to get an Xray and feel the difference. My Xray can do things the old TC4 just couldn't do. Driving is most important but some cars just won't do what others will. Driving don't make up for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
Actually, they're all true. You have yet to bring up a real world situation that can't be refuted or attributed to driver ability.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:44 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgp
Define 'real world situation'. The onus isn't on me to support my position.

You took a stand and have yet to support your position with any concrete evidence other than heresay about isolated incidents.

I'm good with my position, that came in response to yours. And am fairly confident that I don't need to provide a 'real world situation' to support it.

I still luv ya for speaking your mind though.
Uh, I've supported my position with visual weekly evidence. Not based on stacking the qualifiers at major racers or here-say. We may not agree but at least you argued the point other then just saying..."I'm sponsored I know more then you so go away loser"...which is what SOME people do.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:50 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
Uh, I've supported my position with visual weekly evidence. Not based on stacking the qualifiers at major racers or here-say. We may not agree but at least you argued the point other then just saying..."I'm sponsored I know more then you so go away loser"...which is what SOME people do.
Ahem. I'm not a sponsored driver. I'm a club racer that happens to get parts in exchange for customer support work. Actual hard work.

I'm sure I know less than you as I've only been in this for less than 2.5 years.

And I'm also the loser that went away from the Birds with a G main win. Got a plaque to prove that.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:52 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by teamgp
Ahem. I'm not a sponsored driver. I'm a club racer that happens to get parts in exchange for customer support work. Actual hard work.

I'm sure I know less than you as I've only been in this for less than 2.5 years.

And I'm also the loser that went away from the Birds with a G main win. Got a plaque to prove that.
I was just saying that some people say that to me....because they want to feel superior and special.
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:01 PM   #131
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I was just saying that some people say that to me....because they want to feel superior and special.
I get the same treatment as well. But I just stay in there face and ask more questions like, 'Do you mind if I ask more questions, or are you unapproachable? Special even?'

I don't put up with the attitudes either. Outside of RC, I'm a man. Man up!
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:01 PM   #132
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so what`s the outcome then ?? with this communication on here

buy upto date car & win or learn to drive better before splashing out
in order for me

1)Money (This buy`s drivers which buy results which paint a false picture for average Joe to expect results as soon as he buys the said chassis
2)driver skills (to get it round
3)chassis (to lay the power down
4)power (to deliver the power

get in there

whats the title of this thread Jones or some thing
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:12 PM   #133
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so what`s the outcome then ?? with this communication on here

buy upto date car & win or learn to drive better before splashing out
in order for me

1)Money (This buy`s drivers which buy results which paint a false picture for average Joe to expect results as soon as he buys the said chassis
2)driver skills (to get it round
3)chassis (to lay the power down
4)power (to deliver the power

get in there

whats the title of this thread Jones or some thing
I think you have to learn to drive before you worry about anything else. If you can't drive...a new chassis isn't going to help. Unless of course you just want the new chassis to show off then by all means upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEAMGP
I get the same treatment as well. But I just stay in there face and ask more questions like, 'Do you mind if I ask more questions, or are you unapproachable? Special even?'

I don't put up with the attitudes either. Outside of RC, I'm a man. Man up!
I do that to and that's why people hate me Not that I care though. Gotta have something to do between weekly races and contriversy rocks.
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:13 PM   #134
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I'm not going to tell someone else how to spend their money. If selling off their old chassis and buying the latest makes them happy and they keep coming back to the track, good for them. Its not like the car itself was the biggest part of their expense budget if they are at all competive and buy new batteries and tires, motors all the time. Sell me your old chassis for half price along with some spares and buy yourself a new one.
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:17 PM   #135
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muahdib4
That Avatar is saying `Bring it on Xray`
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