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Old 02-13-2007, 10:07 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by vroomtshh
That is quite possibly the stupidest argument I've ever heard. A good driver will always beat a crap driver, no matter who drives what. But you give two equal drivers an 007 and a TC3 and the 007 is going to win (all other things being equal). The 007 is a more advanced car. Thats why its been released. Technology and innovation has advanced overed the years. If the TC3 was so good, AE wouldnt have released the TC4 would they.

And I'm not an xray driver before you start. I actually regularly wind up xray drivers about my Cyclone being better
Yeah...we saw how good the TC4 was didn't we. 2 drivers of equal skill driving 2 completely different types of chassis..then yes the better chassis would win...as long as all other factors are equal as well and neither are having off days or are a little sick or have headaches. Now, give 2 equal drivers...2 equal chassis (different companies say Xray and Corally on carpet) and one person will not win every time. I'll bet they would split the heats. You can't really test what chassis is better and that's the problem. XRay drivers say it's all about the major wins though they field more drivers and have hired MANY of the best drivers in the world and if another company had done the same thing then they would be winning to. Look at the Cyclone, great chassis that came out of nowhere it seemed, hired a great driver in Hara who also helped develop it and went on to win. Does it win as often as XRay...no...do they field as many cars as Xray...no....have they hired as many big name drivers as Xray...no...does that mean the chassis is junk compared to Xray...no....it's an equally competitive chassis. I don't see how these smug self serving Xray owners refuse to give props to other chassis. I've got my preference too but I still acknowledge that there are a LOT of competitive chassis and that's it's driver skill that wins and if you hire the majority of the skilled drivers and field the most cars....you'll win the majority of the races. It's that simple.
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:16 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Bikerbob
Are you sure you are posting in the right thread?

You seem to be having your own personal conversation.

I dont see anyone responding? Whats up with Traxxis?

Did you get attacked by a group of TRX-1s as a child?

Not that this thread had anything to do with ANY 1 manufacturer...

But your out of left field ramblings are weirding me out??

You ok?
Your right, Sorry I'll shut up.
But before I go.
Dont you just hate those fast guys? I mean there bad luck!
Every time they show up I lose.
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:37 AM   #108
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Who? Mike Jones! 281-330-8004
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:32 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
So racing isn't all driver...hmmmm...so when a good driver racing an old TC3 beats a mediocre driver in the newest Xray T2'Bond edition...then that means the TC3 is a better chassis???? No. It's 99.9999999% driver. Chassis little to no difference to a Pro and even less to a novice.
Your flat out wrong with this statement.

When the top drivers battle each other (at the same skill level), the better chassis design for performance (speed and aggressiveness) greatly improves the results.

At the club level where Joe Shmoe's, like me, race each other (again at the same skill level), the better chassis design for driveability (wide range of setups and forgiving to driver errors) greatly improves results.

Chassis technology for any scale is not smoke and mirrors. Its real concrete physics.

As Butter already stated, the best results come from the entire 'package' <= a well used, appropriate and important term in Formula 1 scale racing.=

A package includes:

1. Tires - If these don't work, it doesn't matter who's driving what
2. Driver - If they don't work, it doesn't matter what they're driving
3. Chassis - If this doesn't work, it doesn't matter what setup you use
4. Setup (including aero/body) - If this doesn't work, it doesn't matter how fast you can go down the straight
5. Power - If this doesn't work and the others above are in great order, you may still have a chance at winning the A main at a race with drivers of your respective skill level.

And yes, that is the order that IMO they should be.
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:41 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by or8ital
Who? Mike Jones! 281-330-8004
LMFAO Still tippin on 4 4's!
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:43 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgp
Your flat out wrong with this statement.

When the top drivers battle each other (at the same skill level), the better chassis design for performance (speed and aggressiveness) greatly improves the results.

At the club level where Joe Shmoe's, like me, race each other (again at the same skill level), the better chassis design for driveability (wide range of setups and forgiving to driver errors) greatly improves results.

Chassis technology for any scale is not smoke and mirrors. Its real concrete physics.

As Butter already stated, the best results come from the entire 'package' <= a well used, appropriate and important term in Formula 1 scale racing.=

A package includes:

1. Tires - If these don't work, it doesn't matter who's driving what
2. Driver - If they don't work, it doesn't matter what they're driving
3. Chassis - If this doesn't work, it doesn't matter what setup you use
4. Setup (including aero/body) - If this doesn't work, it doesn't matter how fast you can go down the straight
5. Power - If this doesn't work and the others above are in great order, you may still have a chance at winning the A main at a race with drivers of your respective skill level.

And yes, that is the order that IMO they should be.
I think chassis would be last. Sorry, all the top chassis are pretty much the same. Even if one is .001 seconds faster over the entire race, that isn't truly a measurable factor and is one easily overcome by driving ability. ALL those other factors can make or break a race by a larger margin therefore are more important and driver ability is #1. That's the truth and I know people don't want to agree so they can have an excuse to spend $$$$ on the newest, hottest chassis and Sponsored guys don't want to agree because they're part of the marketing machine to sell the product. That's fine, keep telling yourselves it's all about the chassis...doesn't bother me because I LOVE to see the hot new thing get smoked by 'outdated' or 'cheap' chassis and it happens all the time except at the highest level of competition where they don't even race 'older' 'cheaper' chassis.
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:44 AM   #112
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:50 AM   #113
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One thing I agree with in regards to the original topic. For the average club racer like me it is not worth it to keep up with the new kits since I only race at one or two tracks and I have already found a good set up for my current car and it does take me a while to get comfortable with a car because contrary to popular beleif all these cars have a different feel to it and they all don't react to the same adjustments as another brand. But for the few guys that are track rats they might benifit from an upgrade but I don't know about every few months.
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:51 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vroomtshh
But you give two equal drivers an 007 and a TC3 and the 007 is going to win (all other things being equal).
Thats rather ineteresting. At our local track a local fast guy, who runs the RDX, B-Main stock foam at the Birds this year and another local fast guy who is running his original TC3 team kit not factory kit is just as fast and as a matter of fact has been a little faster as of late. I believe it comes down more to driver and setup. Now at a bigger race with more traction it would probably be a different story or would it?

Later,
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:53 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
I think chassis would be last. Sorry, all the top chassis are pretty much the same.
Again, if you ask any experienced chassis design engineer from any scale racing program to analyze the different TC chassis', you'll be surprised at how many differences there are. Although they seem small (10th of a mm here of there, .1d angle here or there), when matched to the scale of the cars and their respective scale speeds, the difference is measurable in the lap times.

But you are entitled to your opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:04 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgp
Again, if you ask any experienced chassis design engineer from any scale racing program to analyze the different TC chassis', you'll be surprised at how many differences there are. Although they seem small (10th of a mm here of there, .1d angle here or there), when matched to the scale of the cars and their respective scale speeds, the difference is measurable in the lap times.

But you are entitled to your opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Measurable in lap times by who? Measurable how? There are differences but they can all be overcome by driving ability. Math isn't racing and I'd love to see an actual mathematical comparison then. Of course you're also going to get different answers from these design engineers based on who's paying their bills. The guy who designed the T2'007 isn't going to tell you that the JSX-R is faster just like the designer of the Corally RDX PHI isn't going to tell you that the new Schumacher Mi3 is faster. So rather then spout here-say...go ahead and pay an independent engineer and someone with a doctorate in physics to prove it. Otherwise just say they're all close enough to the same that driver skill means more which IS THE CASE.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:19 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASH
Thats rather ineteresting. At our local track a local fast guy, who runs the RDX, B-Main stock foam at the Birds this year and another local fast guy who is running his original TC3 team kit not factory kit is just as fast and as a matter of fact has been a little faster as of late. I believe it comes down more to driver and setup. Now at a bigger race with more traction it would probably be a different story or would it?

Later,
Well you would have to consider this guy an exception. I wouldn't call him the local fast guy if he is getting beat by a TC3??

hell, the guy with the TC3 could have qualified in the A main!
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:25 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by sinisterRC
Well you would have to consider this guy an exception. I wouldn't call him the local fast guy if he is getting beat by a TC3??

hell, the guy with the TC3 could have qualified in the A main!

Yeah, too bad he only really likes nitro.

Later,
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:27 PM   #119
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teamgp your thinking wisely its nice to see that in this thread lol
mathamatics in the box is what keeps it all square.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:29 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
Measurable in lap times by who? Measurable how? There are differences but they can all be overcome by driving ability. Math isn't racing and I'd love to see an actual mathematical comparison then. Of course you're also going to get different answers from these design engineers based on who's paying their bills. The guy who designed the T2'007 isn't going to tell you that the JSX-R is faster just like the designer of the Corally RDX PHI isn't going to tell you that the new Schumacher Mi3 is faster. So rather then spout here-say...go ahead and pay an independent engineer and someone with a doctorate in physics to prove it. Otherwise just say they're all close enough to the same that driver skill means more which IS THE CASE.
We can agree somewhat then. Per my post above I have the driver at #2 and the chassis at #3. Driver skill does mean more.

However, the chassis and its inherent setup possibilities (including model TC's) are more important than you make them out to be.

You sound like an independent engineer. Why don't you find out which one is faster for you and let us know. I doubt you'll be *consistently* faster with an older TC3 or T1EVOII (with any setup) than you will be with a newer TC5, T2'007, RDX or even the new Schui.

I also doubt you'll be faster on asphalt/rubber with a 007 US edition than if you used a 007 EU edition as well. They look pretty similar right?
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