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Old 02-12-2007, 07:15 AM   #1
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Default New CRC front end

I have to say that I am extremely disappointed in the quality of this product. Here's how it went....This weekend, I broke a lower arm in the first heat of qualifying. In the process of putting a new arm on, it cracked where the screws to hold it on the chassis are. Took that one off. Took the next arm and SLOWLY tried to thread it so as not to crack it. SNAP!!!! There goes another one. Next arm....same thing. Next arm....same thing. Next arm....same thing. Next arm....Oh wait.....I don't have any more!
Now, that being said, I have read Mr. Payne's blog on cutting the threads instead of forcing them, but shouldn't CRC include a thread cutting screw to remedy this? I was trying to get ready for the next round and didn't have time (or a Dremel) to cut a screw for this.
This front end has been a nightmare for me. Even when it was released, there were parts that needed to be replaced with not-so-inferior parts. At our cost, no less. Not to mention having to re-up on your bearings because they were a different size. Shouldn't those have been included too? I saw a top-notch driver break an arm every round on Saturday. WEAK!!!!!
Whatever. Flame away if need be.

Jason
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:21 AM   #2
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Read the GenX thread, you are not alone.
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:24 AM   #3
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I think it's been discovered that the 3mm Graphite shims help keep the breakage down. I've raced mine 3 weeks, another guy about 5 weeks and we haven't had one arm break yet.

I know CRC is looking into this as well. As far as the rest of the front end goes, IMHO, it's very nice.
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:34 AM   #4
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There is no doubt in my mind that the new front end is an engineering masterpiece. In theory, that is. Execution is a different matter. At our local track, our borders have A LOT of "give" to them. The problem is exponentially increased when at a track with more solid borders. I ran it all day on Sat. and had no problems to speak of. Went to CEFX on Sun. and this is when this all happened.
Oh yeah....ordered some new pro-cuts last week, put them on Sat. morning. Hmmm.....why is there about 1/16 between the rim and the nut? Would you look at that! The off-set is different. Nice.

Jason

P.S.-Congrats to Mr. Grosskamp on his finish @ the Snowbirds. Classiest man in R/C.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:15 AM   #5
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I race my GenX since 3 or 4 weeks and didn't break anything. And ╬'m not a top driver (and i had some crashs).
Maybe CRC has changed the material of the front arms !?!

David
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:35 AM   #6
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That's the problem. I broke one of the arms while racing. The rest broke while simply trying to thread them before putting them on.
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:57 PM   #7
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Default not having breakage issues

I've seen many of the posts and complaints about people having breakage problems but I've had no problems whatsoever. My gen X front end is fitted to my trusty tfource and it's been awesome. It's easily the biggest improvement and leap forward that i've ever made to a 1/12th car.....and I've been racing these little cars for over 15 years. I do have the 3mm graphite spacers instead of the aluminum ones (necessary to run tiny tires anyway), and I do run a tap thru the mounting holes before screwing the arms down to the chassis. Pre threading the holes on any of the front end arms just makes the car so much easier to work on. It eliminates messing up the phillips screw heads and it makes ride height shims easier to insert. I've been threading my arms for years and I've never had an arm come loose. Perhaps because of the graphite shims and pre threading the arms, I've not experienced breakage problems, and I run alot. Once I did pound the car hard enough to bend a kingpin....but the arm didn't break and nothing other than the kingpin was damaged. One thing's for sure........this front end is a major improvement to the handling of the car. More steering. More response. Smoother to drive and yet more agressive. Faster overall, with no downside that I've found. I'd say Frank and crew did their homework.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:17 PM   #8
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They did their homework and we have to pay because they got a C-. I guess they didn't have a course titled, "Steel set screws will damage your kingpin and back out in the middle of a race". The class must have been, "Sell your customers an inferior product and make them pay hard earned cash to make it not suck".
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Old 02-12-2007, 04:17 PM   #9
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well i love the front end, iv only broke 1 arm and it was a big hit so idono, iv changed the arms cuz there getting old, i know this.
use the graphite shims
counter sink the 2 screws for the upper block more with a 82║ counter sink so the arms will sit flat on the graphite spacers.dont shave the spacers.
use the crc ride hit adjusters
thread the bottom screws striate
with an old arm i tried threading it on a angle and low and behold the thing cracked so i think this may be the problem here
im no pro guy and i do hit stuff(and i hit a metal beam right on the arm) and i only have broken 1 arm. i do think the arms are more stiff than the ae ones but the upper arms are made of the same stuff,if the upper arms were softer the pillow arms may come out.
i think its good that the arms are this stiff it makes the front end very rigid and makes the car work great and makes me drive better. or force me to drive better.
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Old 02-12-2007, 04:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampede
They did their homework and we have to pay because they got a C-. I guess they didn't have a course titled, "Steel set screws will damage your kingpin and back out in the middle of a race". The class must have been, "Sell your customers an inferior product and make them pay hard earned cash to make it not suck".
i use the steal set screws and they dont come out.
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Old 02-12-2007, 04:23 PM   #11
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well maybe they should make softer arms for those that need them.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:44 PM   #12
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Ive been racing pan cars for 19 years.. I dont think ive broken more then 5 Ae arms.. I want to try the CRC frnt end, but i doubt it with what i have read.. There is nothing special about the front end in my opinion. its the same design just packaged to look different.. Ive seen guys here try both back to back with no performance gains from one to the other.. Yeah The ae front end takes a little work to get it free, but it last forever.. i have had the same lower arms on my pan car for almost a season.. Ive had to replce the balls, but the plastic is still good..

I saw CRC is working on a 10th scale oval version.. i sure hope they fix the breakage issues, cause the speed of oval cars will definatley weed the front end out..
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:09 AM   #13
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I've tried using the graphite shims. The problem is when you get you ride height to where it should be, you still have no structural support. The aluminum spacers included will, indeed, crush. The graphite shim needs to be modified out of the pakage to work. They released the brass set screws because the steel ones damaged the kingpin and didn't set very well. And they were released along with the front end. Why not just include them?
All in all, the performance of the front end is spectacular. When I was putting it together, I thought "WOW....why didn't someone think of this sooner?". The pivot ball is awesome. Including the different caster blocks is awesome. The adjustability is awesome. Durability? Uhhhh.....not so much.
Granted, I haven't been doing this for too long. I still hit stuff. But when a guy that has been racing on a national level for years and years breaks 4-5 arms in one day on a track with relatively soft borders, there's a problem somewhere.

Jason
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:43 PM   #14
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lets see no advantage to running a crc front end how about raising roll centers or lowering the roll center the only other front end on the market you can do this to is the old trinity front end .. i have heard a lot of people saying good and bad things about this front end and i have nothing but good things to say about it i have not broken a arm yet and i have hit a lot of stuff with it at the birds this year.
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:16 PM   #15
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Several people broke arms Sunday at CEFX including me. It happens.

There were plenty of people there with dremels to cut a screw for the threads. Some of the guys have taps in their pit boxes also.

If Frank's parts are breaking I'm sure that he'll be working on it. Have you tried emailing CRC about the arms that split?
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