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Old 03-03-2007, 11:08 AM   #46
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The fact that they pull so hard out of the turns seems to benefit intermediate drivers more than experts, since it's usually the intermediate guys that are scrubbing more speed in the turns, and can use the "yank" to close the gap on the way out. It's good to hear that you appreciate the better competition in the club, I'm not sure your opinion is shared by all. :-)

With the sintered rotor, I've been gearing my 13.5 around 43MM*. The thing I've been struggling with is that it's very fast for the first four minutes, and then starts to fade pretty hard. I remember someone saying that even though the motor isn't getting terribly hot (about 150-155) the stator can get fatigued after working so hard and lose efficiency. I'm not sure how true that is, but it sounded good. I guess I'll start experimenting with heatsinks and fans to see how things go.

*64 pitch. 88T spur, 44-47T pinion. the spur is only slightly bigger than the ring that holds it on to the layshaft assembly. It looks goofy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
Nosrom speedo's are rebadged LRP's arent they? If so I would assume the motors are as well.

I was faster in a 5 minute run than him but that was due to driving and car carrying more corner speed but damn those things had yank out of the corner!! He had more yank out of each corner and the first 15 feet of the straight...but then I was faster after that. Im not sure what he was geared but it was a lot!! LOL

I wish more of our locals would get brushless motors. It closed the gap up a lot from him to me....I had to drive very good to stay in front...which I didnt do in the main btw!! I think if most tracks would allow bl stuff at the club races it would help their attendance and be easier to get new guys into it.

Now if Roar will just get their heads out of their butts and create an actual set of rules for stock and 19 turn classes of BL then all the manufactures can get their motors made to spec!! THEN BL will really take off even more than it has!!

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Old 03-04-2007, 02:38 AM   #47
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Hi All

Interesting thread here.

If I were to read the posts and choose my company based on the tone and attitude of the writers ... which would I pick?

Anyway... its a new world and its getting better from what I can see. More choice and flexibility. I'd sell my comm lathe but I gess no one will want it!

Mark

Last edited by Mark Payne; 03-04-2007 at 02:57 AM.
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Old 03-04-2007, 04:01 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
With the sintered rotor, I've been gearing my 13.5 around 43MM*. The thing I've been struggling with is that it's very fast for the first four minutes, and then starts to fade pretty hard. I remember someone saying that even though the motor isn't getting terribly hot (about 150-155) the stator can get fatigued after working so hard and lose efficiency. I'm not sure how true that is, but it sounded good. I guess I'll start experimenting with heatsinks and fans to see how things go.
Charlie from Novak mentioned to me once that the power can fade some just because the wires and solder joints heat up and develop resistance (even when the heat isn't all that excessive). I ended up pointing a 30mm fan straight on the motor's 3 solder joints and it seemed to help noticeably with the fade .
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Old 03-04-2007, 08:03 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STARSCREAM
DIE BRUSHLESS!!!! DIE!!!!!!

Just kidn'....its just hard for me to accept cuz Im so old school...

Its cool that pretty soon every electric RTR will come with brushless stuff...but for racing, in my opinion its kinda like putting brushless motors in Nextel Cup cars...the tuning that goes into brushed motors is so pure and traditional...

It would be so sad to see brushed motors leave our sport some-day...

think I would run nitro....

love you all, Maybell
A brushless motor is like the ultimate speck motor it will even the race to say the least. Brushless is still finding its place and getting there fast. It will take gents like your self to help. Im sure you see the goods and bad?
Brushless is accepted in mod, but not needed. Its needed in the slower on a budget class, the class that loves it but just cant afford it or want to study it or practice it, its having trouble placing itself and we try to keep adjusting for its advances. If it were not advanceing we would'nt be having this post. Its not accepted due to the non tunability. Its a stuggle. If the stock pros go to 23T or outlaw 36 degree it will help.Thus make a better pro class of stock that the privateers and the pros can run and open the 13.5 to the stock racers. That will tigten up the seperation on skill and bugdet racer's and sponsered. At that point you sign up in a class like 23, outlaw your on your own. As long as were non bias we will find a way to pacifie the both. Although in the clubs the battle is different. I think we are fixing to try some 23T and outlaw 36 degree, In the 13.5 class? So stick around put your glow plugs up and tweak your outlaw stocks for another round. I believe we are getting closer to whether or not to mix, the effort to mix is a great try on the part of the big boys. But on a nat'l level it looks to me seperation is the only way. And let the input from the clubs pave the rest of it. Later.
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Old 03-04-2007, 08:13 AM   #50
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Syndrome if the out put of the motor is a 33mm roll out? You may be able to push 34 or 35. But your pushing it to a 40. The taller roll out gets there slower. Therefore draining the power of the battery. I know its a lipo but its getting over worked. Like I say why gear to the moon to go faster? Just throw in a faster motor. And gear down.

Qoute:
Its not how fast you go! Its how fast you get there.
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:44 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus Racing
Charlie from Novak mentioned to me once that the power can fade some just because the wires and solder joints heat up and develop resistance (even when the heat isn't all that excessive). I ended up pointing a 30mm fan straight on the motor's 3 solder joints and it seemed to help noticeably with the fade .
That's a very good bit of information, thank you! Now I'm gonna have to buy some more of those MM fans from your site. :-D
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:48 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
Syndrome if the out put of the motor is a 33mm roll out? You may be able to push 34 or 35. But your pushing it to a 40. The taller roll out gets there slower. Therefore draining the power of the battery. I know its a lipo but its getting over worked. Like I say why gear to the moon to go faster? Just throw in a faster motor. And gear down.

Qoute:
Its not how fast you go! Its how fast you get there.
I'll make it work and chase you down with it. :-)
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:21 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
A brushless motor is like the ultimate speck motor it will even the race to say the least.
Wrong... if the Orion/Peak 13.5 is faster than the Novak... ask Rick suggested it might be.... how does that "even the race" as you say?
And with LRP and Tekin coming out with 13.5... well they all wont be exactly the same speed... it going back to the motor of the month
Or are you going to only allow Novak motors... like the oval guys are doing?
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:50 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottoman
Or are you going to only allow Novak motors... like the oval guys are doing?
Thats only the BRL series that is doing that. But if more 13.5's become available then they may open it up as well....but I doubt it since Novak is one of the main sponsors

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Old 03-04-2007, 12:54 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottoman
Wrong... if the Orion/Peak 13.5 is faster than the Novak... ask Rick suggested it might be.... how does that "even the race" as you say?
And with LRP and Tekin coming out with 13.5... well they all wont be exactly the same speed... it going back to the motor of the month
Or are you going to only allow Novak motors... like the oval guys are doing?
Like a there`s two stock brush motor`s that are same speed ?
like...
A Co27 verse`s a P2k ?

Not the same are they ....


as it is ..

At least the brushless will be closer in performance because there is no hand picked motor`s, no funny stuff being done to the timing , like twisting the com, ect. ..



Brushless is

Beginner fiendly !!!

which is why we need a brushless stock class to replace the brush 27T class....

With a brushless stock class, new racer`s will not have to learn the dark tuner secret`s and buy lathes and stuff...


More new racer`s is why we need to upgrade the stock class`s for the good of the sport ...
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:08 PM   #56
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Time will tell, but it's beginning to look like simply using turns to rate BL motors isn't going to be enough. We need some hard rules for motor design quick. Adrian says ROAR is listening, so hopefully they're seeing that we're on the brink of a big mess, and the sooner rules are solidified, the less damage will be done. Regardless of how you feel about ROAR, manufacturers seem to generally abide by their rules, and clubs ultimately use some variation of them.

The only way to approach anything close to a spec class is to use motors from a single manufacturer, much like handouts at a big race. At this point, most people would agree that there's less tuning potential with a brushless motor than a brushed one, so to that end, BL could make a better spec motor.
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:24 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
At least the brushless will be closer in performance because there is no hand picked motor`s, no funny stuff being done to the timing , like twisting the com, ect. ..
While I'll agree there is a large gap in brushed motors if you look at the results of the Snowibirds in Oval there is a larger spread from TQ to 10th or 20th in the 4300 class than the stock or 19 turn class. Why would that be? Most of the guys in expert 19 turn are the same guys as 4300.....so its not driver. Stock was the closest of all the classes in qualifying.

Stock
TQ 53 4.03
30th 51 4.00

Expert 19 turn
TQ 58 4.00
30th 56 4.03

4300
TQ 60 4.02
30th 57 4.02

Not trying to argue with you but to me the argument of brushless motors are more equal is not as true as guys want to believe....Pretty close to the same spread as 19 turn and twice as big a spread as stock.

EA
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Old 03-04-2007, 03:36 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I'll make it work and chase you down with it. :-)
Your dareing me arent you?
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Old 03-04-2007, 03:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottoman
Wrong... if the Orion/Peak 13.5 is faster than the Novak... ask Rick suggested it might be.... how does that "even the race" as you say?
And with LRP and Tekin coming out with 13.5... well they all wont be exactly the same speed... it going back to the motor of the month
Or are you going to only allow Novak motors... like the oval guys are doing?
I see your point and I like it. The only suggestion I have is to mix them as if they were a Core-27 VS. P2K so to speak, and let the chips fall where they may. That is as far as a 13.5 stock class. I believe that a variety of brands will increase the enthuesiasme of the class. We can only try it with an open mind and give it a chance.
I would say aproach it like a mod class that is slow. One motor may be more dominant on different lay outs from another and there fore give some tunibility to the class. One motor may be more for dirt and so on. In door out door the possibilities are endless. Just one more bit of good input that you have to help brushless make a place. If a motor is faster than another then it can be placed as a more advanced class of stock. We have an oppertunity to make the future as far as Brushless. On a club level give it a try, on a nat'l level it will help define the class.
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Old 03-04-2007, 09:14 PM   #60
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http://rcforum.co.kr/news/entry/LRP-...Modified-Motor
http://www.redrc.net/2007/03/nosram-...ushless-motor/

http://rcforum.co.kr/news/entry/LRP-AI-Brushless
http://www.redrc.net/2007/03/nosram-...ss-controller/

These new "cheap" brushless motors hitting the market could make things very interesting.
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