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-   -   GP 4600 (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/147460-gp-4600-a.html)

trf_racer 02-01-2007 07:39 AM

GP 4600
 
http://www.rcworld.ch/data/GP4600_1.jpg

http://www.rcworld.ch/neueprojekte.asp?id=4028

A. Rhodes 02-01-2007 08:08 AM

Here we go again :lol:

sosidge 02-01-2007 08:14 AM

In one sense, yes.

BUT, in another sense, loads of people have complained about the durability of the IB4200 - so if GP can come up with a cell that will match it in performance without being fragile, the racer wins.

McSmooth 02-01-2007 08:14 AM

It's time for the rules-makers and battery matchers to grow a set and (1) not allow this cell for another year and (2) not match/sell them.

What do you really think the chances of that happening are?

Glad I bought a nitro sedan.

trf_racer 02-01-2007 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by McSmooth
It's time for the rules-makers and battery matchers to grow a set and (1) not allow this cell for another year and (2) not match/sell them.

What do you really think the chances of that happening are?

Glad I bought a nitro sedan.

According to RCWorld website, it says it is EFRA legal.

sosidge 02-01-2007 08:33 AM


Originally Posted by McSmooth
It's time for the rules-makers and battery matchers to grow a set and (1) not allow this cell for another year and (2) not match/sell them.

What do you really think the chances of that happening are?

Glad I bought a nitro sedan.

Stop the whining about restricting development.

I suppose they ban new engines in Nitro do they? Do you start whining when someone at your track starts running the new release Nova or whatever?

McSmooth 02-01-2007 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by sosidge
Stop the whining about restricting development.

I suppose they ban new engines in Nitro do they? Do you start whining when someone at your track starts running the new release Nova or whatever?

Two completely different situations. Fuel tanks aren't getting bigger and therefore supplying more hp to the engine.

Explain this to the budget racer that faces shelling out another large sum of jack, after just doing the same thing last year, and the year before that. Tell him he's 'whining'.

But if your signature is any indication, you very well might be a dealer. Of course new battery packs would be good in your eyes....more sales.

Thanks for your concern.

Rick Hohwart 02-01-2007 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by McSmooth
Two completely different situations. Fuel tanks aren't getting bigger and therefore supplying more hp to the engine.

Explain this to the budget racer that faces shelling out another large sum of jack, after just doing the same thing last year, and the year before that. Tell him he's 'whining'.

But if your signature is any indication, you very well might be a dealer. Of course new battery packs would be good in your eyes....more sales.

Thanks for your concern.

The unfortunate situation is that ROAR has rules in place that prevent having to buy a new type of battery every time one is released, but they are pretty much ignored by most tracks, clubs, and race promotors.

If the cell is good (better and or more durable), racers will want them and tracks, clubs, and race promotors will allow them.

nagatahawk 02-01-2007 08:53 AM

i agree. So you dont want whining? then every body shut up and quit racing.
we all can whine all we want.

Is this progress or greed in the in the name of progress.
Why dont they just come out with the 5000 and get it over with.

Legalizing lipos and brushless would be more progress than releasing another fragile battery every other month.

HarshGuy 02-01-2007 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
The unfortunate situation is that ROAR has rules in place that prevent having to buy a new type of battery every time one is released, but they are pretty much ignored by most tracks, clubs, and race promotors.

If the cell is good (better and or more durable), racers will want them and tracks, clubs, and race promotors will allow them.

They went to a bi-yearly approval this year, so this cell should be approved for use as of May 1st (assuming it meets specs and is sent in by April 1st of course).

8.3.6 Battery approvals will be processed on a bi-yearly basis. All proposed cells must be received by the ROAR Technical Director by the 1st of September for approval by October 1st or received by April 1st for approval by May 1st. The final decisions on approvals will be communicated to the manufacturer/distributor or assembler and posted on the website listing when approved.

McSmooth 02-01-2007 08:54 AM

Rick,

Yes, I understand all that and I do realize that it will be inevitable.

A GP4600 also means a similar IB cell is coming too. I just don't need to be thrilled about it.

Also, be prepared for another round of "4/5 cells in touring cars", "my mod motor is going to blow up", and "why don't we have longer races".

Then the Lipo people will come in here and complain that their cells aren't legal and that they're the greatest invention since internet porn.

Wait...maybe RCTech is behind all this? :lol:

MR JOLLY 02-01-2007 08:57 AM

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...ache9rmip6.jpg

glad i`ve gone Li-Po :D

XMSRacing 02-01-2007 09:00 AM

Doesn't GP normally come up with odd number mah ratings?

tc3team 02-01-2007 09:01 AM

r/c cars are almost like PC's, in the respect that you think you have the best spec out there, but by the time you have unboxed it and switched it on its out of date :nod:

duckman996 02-01-2007 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by XMSRacing
Doesn't GP normally come up with odd number mah ratings?

You are right - now we are going to see the IB 4800 pop-up in a couple weeks.

:rolleyes:

syndr0me 02-01-2007 09:08 AM

Main apathy turn on.

dodgeguy 02-01-2007 09:12 AM

Just realize that this is the way it is. GP, I am sure, is making this cell for other applications as well. Not just for rc. A very small part of the bussiness.

And the IB cells are to sensitive right now. The nice thing about the GP cells was how durable they were.

It will be interesting as what IB will do.

sportpak 02-01-2007 09:13 AM

The people that suffer are the ones that really need a latest battery, and the people that THINK they need the latest battery. If people really want them, let them buy them. I find more speed by hitting my marks then spending another $70 on a battery that has an average .011v/cell. I'm sure that a decent percentage of everyone else who races are the same way. Give me a break.

moonman 02-01-2007 09:25 AM

On thing that Rc racers need to realize is that you don't need the latest batteries to be competetive. If you want to buy them do so but for sure you don't need them and you won't notice any noticeable gains if you already have decent batteries.
Power is not the most important thing in rc racing. First learn to drive, then try to understand how to set up your car and when this is under control you can search for more power. This I belive is a fact but when the race starts this fact is quickly forgotten by most racers.

Solara 02-01-2007 09:29 AM

I am afraid another class will form.....8 minutes racing instead of 5. If you race stock or even 19T...4600mah, what is the advantage for only 5 minutes Q and M..?

Carbonator 02-01-2007 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by McSmooth
It's time for the rules-makers and battery matchers to grow a set and (1) not allow this cell for another year and (2) not match/sell them.

What do you really think the chances of that happening are?

Glad I bought a nitro sedan.

So you like to put it in perspective to Nitro?

Okay....

-Batteries are recharged when empty..
-Fueltank is refilled when empty.

And we continue to to so untill....

-Batteries are dead/to bad to race with (we buy new ones)
-5 gallon jerrycan(???) is empty (you buy a new one)

I'm buying the latest bateries because they are better.
You're buying the latest blend of your favorite brand, because its better

Oh no sorry, you're still buying the stuf that was new 5 years ago, because you think development should be stopped ??!!??

Development is called development because it makes thing better....

And yes, people are entitled to have their own opion (base on whatever fact or fiction).

KR
Richard

StephenSobottka 02-01-2007 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by Solara
I am afraid another class will form.....8 minutes racing instead of 5. If you race stock or even 19T...4600mah, what is the advantage for only 5 minutes Q and M..?

Never dropping off and just worrying about motor heat via the jump in supplied voltage toward the end of the run

McSmooth 02-01-2007 09:37 AM


Originally Posted by Carbonator
-Batteries are dead/to bad to race with (we buy new ones)
-5 gallon jerrycan(???) is empty (you buy a new one)

4 gallons of fuel: $85

4 IB4200 6-cell battery packs: $260

DrOlds 02-01-2007 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by McSmooth
4 gallons of fuel: $85

4 IB4200 6-cell battery packs: $260


40 gallons of fuel: $850

40 IB4600 6-cell battery packs: $2600

2 3200 lipo battery packs: $200

pookat 02-01-2007 10:21 AM

Resale value of your used race packs = something.
Resale value of your used fuel = nothing.

Carbonator 02-01-2007 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by McSmooth
4 gallons of fuel: $85

4 IB4200 6-cell battery packs: $260

Yeah, go right for the money. (Never said bateries were cheaper)

Just wanted to point out Nitro is in essence no different from Batteries.

A stop on development of the "power source" (batteries/fuel) means a boost in development of the motor/engine.
Wich is much cheaper, especially with nitro engines.....

KR
Richard

MattW 02-01-2007 10:59 AM

This is no real surprise (well, especially as i knew about it 2-3 weeks ago when the BRCA released t heir list!!).

At the end of the day cell companies are trying to improve their products, you will never stop them.

I'm not sure about rules in other parts of the world, but in the UK (and i think EFRA) it's fairly straight forward. Cells must be submitted before December 31, list released during January - usually middle. Then new cells are actually legal on April 1. So, racers have 3 months notice that new cells are coming, and they can make their choices.

I think this works. This all documented, so in reality it makes no sense to buy cells until you know what is going to be legal. Then you pay's your money.

McSmooth 02-01-2007 11:00 AM

And as the electric racing numbers continue to dwindle, you can keep telling yourself that this is all a good thing.

There's a reason 1/8 nitro buggy racing is the most popular segment right now. This just didn't happen by accident. The whole battery issue is part of that reason.

Ask those fans of electric off-road if they're happy with the current trend. Keep on going down this same path, and electric on-road will be in the same predicament.

Instead of being pro-active and doing something about it, we continue to bury our heads in the sand and say "if it ain't broke...."

It's hard enough getting new people into racing, and even harder to get them into electric touring cars when they have those other choices. Now faced with THIS issue on an annual basis, any new people will quickly get disgusted and either race something else or quit completely.

Carbonator 02-01-2007 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by McSmooth

Instead of being pro-active and doing something about it, we continue to bury our heads in the sand and say "if it ain't broke...."


Yeah, here's a surprise...

Japan= 4 cell
Europe = 5 cell
US = 6 cell

About being pro-active....

We all have our own opinions about development.... but in the end we all make our own discisions....

.........THE END........

KR
Richard

McSmooth 02-01-2007 11:18 AM


Originally Posted by Carbonator
Yeah, here's a surprise...

Japan= 4 cell
Europe = 5 cell
US = 6 cell

About being pro-active....

And you know what...I'm all for 4 or 5 cell!

However, go to this thread and see the kind of reaction it brought about here.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=137887

Solara 02-01-2007 11:33 AM


Originally Posted by StephenSobottka
Never dropping off and just worrying about motor heat via the jump in supplied voltage toward the end of the run

Good to know that.... :nod:

Carbonator 02-01-2007 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by McSmooth
And you know what...I'm all for 4 or 5 cell!

However, go to this thread and see the kind of reaction it brought about here.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=137887

I guess flying to Europe for some 5-cell races is out of the question?? :lol:

bvoltz 02-01-2007 11:44 AM

hey... come on over and run in our little series... :)

Here are the rules:

General Rules:

- ROAR Rules unless other specified.
- 13.5 Novak Brushless Motor is legal in ALL Stock Classes
- Novak 4300 Brushless Motor is legal in ALL 19T Classes
- LiPo Batteries are ONLY legal for Stock Sedan, 19T Sedan and Mod Sedan

Weights: ROAR Rules unless otherwise specified.
For Electric Touring: 5 cells- 1450g rubber tires; 4 cells- 1375g rubber. 6 cells - 1525g rubber tires, LiPos – 1525g (Per ROAR’s new rules)


So I really don't care, run what you want and what you think will take you to the top... I already know of a couple of people that going to run 5 cells just to mess with the minds of others... :lol: :lol: With this cell, I'm sure they are going to try 4 cells, for the fun of it... But Most are going to BL and LiPo, is this the Holy Grail, nope, no, no way, but it is more convenient and cost effective and allows people to have a little fun again when racing...

Also, I have and will continue testing the idea of 3 mins Q, and 8 to 10 mins Mains. So far, it has been a huge hit. PS. I gauge my main times on Wilson, if he stays on the track after the Q is ran, then I just add that to the main... (this way I know they can make it, even on 3300s.....)

BillyCaldwell 02-01-2007 11:49 AM


Originally Posted by syndr0me
Main apathy turn on.

Are you doing it as hard as you can?

sosidge 02-01-2007 12:57 PM

Can the nitro fanboy trolls please leave the thread so we can discuss the new cell now please?

When will we see some numbers and prices for them? Does anyone have them in their hands in production form yet?

McSmooth 02-01-2007 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by sosidge
Can the nitro fanboy trolls please leave the thread so we can discuss the new cell now please?

Presented with an alternative point-of-view, and he resorts to name-calling. How old are you?

By the way, all I've ever raced is electric...since 1986.

adamge 02-01-2007 01:28 PM

McSmooth, you are no better. A new cell is going to come out. We learn its manufacturer and its capacity. What is your reaction? Instant talk of how 'this is what's wrong with electric racing.' Nice.

Personally, I'm thinking that
a) The current IB cells are junk and horrendously overpriced.
b) The current GP cells don't put out the same voltage.
c) It may or may not be the case that that extra voltage could make me place higher.
d) These cells potentially have the same voltage as IB 4200WC but have a half life longer than 4 months. They can't be more expensive (prove me wrong, cell sellers, I dare you), and they can't be of any lower quality. Therefore, they can't be worse than what we have. And by worse I mean higher price:performance.

I guess my position is that, we are in the worst possible situation right now. Extremely expensive cells that are junk. I'm guessing that a new cell will improve that situation.

Speaking of which, where can I buy GP 4300 cells? How about matched GP 4300 cells?

elmo6s 02-01-2007 01:51 PM

Are you sure it's real? There have been a ton of fake pics...

trf_racer 02-01-2007 02:02 PM


Originally Posted by elmo6s
Are you sure it's real? There have been a ton of fake pics...

Yes it's real!

Guo Chean 02-01-2007 07:01 PM

i believe te came out with the higher capacity cell is because of JMRCA deu to they runing 4 cell with 6x2 motor you can see the IB 4200 not even have enough run time for 6x2 motor to run in 5 min especially in last lap the IB 4200 is totally dump. of cause safety issue is another problem. for me i preffer just go to lower voltage rathter go for high voltage and the cell explode in high temp charging is just like you playing fire in your room you do not know when they will burn your house.


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