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Old 02-07-2007, 11:03 AM   #121
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Danny - Thanks for the help. I'll try that next time at the track I'm while out driving with the LiPo pack.

Seriously, I can do what you have suggested, but are we talking about a two-minute thing? Don't forget that after the "discharge prep" the batteries would have to sit on the charger for at least 40min to an hour (depending on selected charge rate) before I could even use it. Ya'know patience is somewhat rare among RC guys. Sure I could try to charge it at 6amps plus but I like my batteries to last me at least a couple weeks if not a couple months.

Thats why LiPo is so attractive because I can charge it in advance run it right way whether fully charged or partially charged and never have to worry about discharging. Now that I have tasted it, going back is very hard. Just the same with radios, now that I have Spectrum, I don't want to back to FM whether it is "Funnies", 40mhz, or 29mhz.
(BTW I have some FM receivers for sale; shameless plug)

One last thing, someone on this thread mentioned that going to LiPo will screw-up the balance of the chassis. Yes, probably so. Thats why I am looking forward to the new Losi car if it ever comes out That being said I might be selling all my stuff that will be useless to me by then. (another shameless plug )
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:06 AM   #122
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I'm not saying Lipos are not good in fact they have some good features but if they become legal for racing then it will be the pack of the month and at 100+ dollars per pack this will kill racing.

With the current sub-c cells you can go to any major race and practically run packs with the same specs as the sponsored drivers. For anyone attending the Snowbirds you can go up and see any of our team drivers packs and see that the numbers are not much different.

Here is what I fear if Lipos become legal for racing. Companies who have money and want to win at any cost will be working with Lipo manufacturers to make special packs. These packs will cost more and most likely that company will only buy enough for its team drivers. So imagine you just bought 100 dollar Lipo pack to go to the Nats and your running brushless which means your basically suppose to be running a battery/motor combo that should be the same as everyone else. You then see a few guys sponsored by company XYZ and they are 1 second a lap faster than you. Then 1 month after the race XYZ company decides to offer it's National winning Lipo pack at 150.00 so you must have it because your going to the IIC in Vegas. You show up there and company ABC has gotten access to another improved Lipo pack and your still 1 second off the pace with your new 150.00 pack.


Anyway you guys can think that I'm trying to scare people away because I own a cell matching company but I'm trying to point these things out because I don't want RC racing to become a battery war.
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:09 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YR4Dude
Danny - Thanks for the help. I'll try that next time at the track I'm while out driving with the LiPo pack.

Seriously, I can do what you have suggested, but are we talking about a two-minute thing? Don't forget that after the "discharge prep" the batteries would have to sit on the charger for at least 40min to an hour (depending on selected charge rate) before I could even use it. Ya'know patience is somewhat rare among RC guys. Sure I could try to charge it at 6amps plus but I like my batteries to last me at least a couple weeks if not a couple months.

Thats why LiPo is so attractive because I can charge it in advance run it right way whether fully charged or partially charged and never have to worry about discharging. Now that I have tasted it, going back is very hard. Just the same with radios, now that I have Spectrum, I don't want to back to FM whether it is "Funnies", 40mhz, or 29mhz.
(BTW I have some FM receivers for sale; shameless plug)

One last thing, someone on this thread mentioned that going to LiPo will screw-up the balance of the chassis. Yes, probably so. Thats why I am looking forward to the new Losi car if it ever comes out That being said I might be selling all my stuff that will be useless to me by then. (another shameless plug )
Actually, LiPo doesn't really screw up the balance of the chassis. You use lead weights and it actually allows you to place the weight where YOU want and/or need it rather then where the battery forces all the weight. It simply allows you more freedom to distribute weight correctly. Though I'm sure the SMC battery guy will disagree...he does have a product to sell ya know.
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:11 AM   #124
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YR4 -I was giving you a maintenance tip for IBs as in your post you said that GPs were easier to maintain which I don't think is the case. If you use a 6 amp charge it will not hurt your cells more than a 4 amp charge rate. Peak detection is what is important. The use of a good peak detection charge is will make for long lasting packs.
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:12 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
I'm not saying Lipos are not good in fact they have some good features but if they become legal for racing then it will be the pack of the month and at 100+ dollars per pack this will kill racing.

With the current sub-c cells you can go to any major race and practically run packs with the same specs as the sponsored drivers. For anyone attending the Snowbirds you can go up and see any of our team drivers packs and see that the numbers are not much different.

Here is what I fear if Lipos become legal for racing. Companies who have money and want to win at any cost will be working with Lipo manufacturers to make special packs. These packs will cost more and most likely that company will only buy enough for its team drivers. So imagine you just bought 100 dollar Lipo pack to go to the Nats and your running brushless which means your basically suppose to be running a battery/motor combo that should be the same as everyone else. You then see a few guys sponsored by company XYZ and they are 1 second a lap faster than you. Then 1 month after the race XYZ company decides to offer it's National winning Lipo pack at 150.00 so you must have it because your going to the IIC in Vegas. You show up there and company ABC has gotten access to another improved Lipo pack and your still 1 second off the pace with your new 150.00 pack.


Anyway you guys can think that I'm trying to scare people away because I own a cell matching company but I'm trying to point these things out because I don't want RC racing to become a battery war.
And that's not happening NOW with sub-C cells? RC Racing isn't currently a battery war?
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:12 AM   #126
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Actually adding lead weight is very bad. LOL
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:13 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Actually adding lead weight is very bad. LOL
Ok, then explain?
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:21 AM   #128
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Danny - what you said is probably valid but it doesn't scare me. In fact it just sounds like the same old thing throughout the 15 plus years I have been in this hobby.

First it was the matched Sanyos, then the red Sanyos, then the black Sanyos, then the there was the Panasonics and the dismantled Makita batteries, then there were the pushed cells; until the last ten years of packaging offering "Race", "Team" and "Worlds" packs. Its nothing new except with LiPo the cost will go to three digits. However regardless of all that while all those guys going to those races are worrying about being competitive the events you mentioned, I am still happily running at my local track maintenance free. Not everyone in this hobby are looking to be world champ.
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:24 AM   #129
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You stated that I would disagree with the weight distribution post so I did. People need to lighten up on these boards. They are made to discuss and give point of views.

If Lipos become legal for racing trust me SMC will have Lipos packs and offer them as were already working on our own Lipo line. That being said I'm still allowed to say that I don't think it's a good idea for racing.
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:31 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
You stated that I would disagree with the weight distribution post so I did. People need to lighten up on these boards. They are made to discuss and give point of views.

If Lipos become legal for racing trust me SMC will have Lipos packs and offer them as were already working on our own Lipo line. That being said I'm still allowed to say that I don't think it's a good idea for racing.
That you are and opinions are welcome. It is better to hear from ALL points of view even if I don't agree.
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:34 AM   #131
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YR4- I understand what your saying and for your application they are great. I just don't think they should be made legal for major events. If they are my company will be the first one to show up with the best possible Lipo packs. I have already seen improvements that would make a difference on the track. The majority of the RC racers get all bent out of shape when they see that another racer has .004 more voltage on his labels. So if we can have Lipo packs that average out .04 more per pack then they will think they need it.

Another thing that needs to be considered is safety and reliability. Maybe the improved performance Lipos will not be as reliable and may be more prone to catching on fire. The current method of charging them is to stop the high current charge at 8.40 volts maybe some will attempt to go above this to try and get more out of there packs. All these potential issues need to be considered.
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:35 AM   #132
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If everyone would agree life would be boring. LOL
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:23 PM   #133
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Default Hmmmmmmmm?

will those who bash NIMHs and praise LI-POs as the saviour, be ready to bash LI-POs?

i wonder when those claiming LI-PO is the future and have these in their race inventory will be receptive to LI-MN, next gen LI-IO, that are now available for 1/10 RC Cars?

allow them in their circle?

what about when the Nickle comes back into the picture with what is currently being tested: instant hi-amp flash charge (in 8-15 min) high capacity cells? not exactly sure what they are calling them? NI-AG?

Last edited by fast-ho-cars; 02-07-2007 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:33 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
will those who bash NIMHs and praise LI-POs as the saviour, be ready to bash LI-POs?

i wonder when when those claiming LI-PO is the future and have these in their race inventory will be receptive to LI-MN, next gen LI-IO, that are now available for 1/10 RC Cars?

allow them in their circle?

what about when the Nickle comes back with the currently be tested: instant flash charge (8-15) high capacity cells being tested? not exactly sure what they are calling them? NI-AG?
And so on, and so on, and so on.

Thats nothing new at all. Technology will always change and progress. Just like the laptop you bought last summer is out of date so too will happen in RC. Thats just plain ol' progress. Its just that the rate of it is somewhat difficult for some of us to keep up with. All I could hope for is that it doesn't change as often as my wife buys a new pair of shoes and designer label handbag.

Can you imagine women complaining about fashion changes?
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:46 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
will those who bash NIMHs and praise LI-POs as the saviour, be ready to bash LI-POs?

i wonder when when those claiming LI-PO is the future and have these in their race inventory will be receptive to LI-MN, next gen LI-IO, that are now available for 1/10 RC Cars?

allow them in their circle?

what about when the Nickle comes back with the currently be tested: instant flash charge (8-15) high capacity cells being tested? not exactly sure what they are calling them? NI-AG?

Li-Po is not the future but they still last 10 times the cycles or races before dropping off in run time & voltage...

Other cell technology`s will be coming just as now ...
Why fight progress ?

We use to embrace new cells for what ?

A little more voltage and run time ?

C-On ! ......

Li-Po already has that covered in comparison ....

Lets talk durability , cus after a few months I won`t need to wonder if my Li-Po packs have dropped off and already slower than the guy that will purchase 4600`s this summer...
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