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Old 02-06-2007, 05:05 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
For all you Lipo lovers I understand that they give you good results and that they seem like they will be the way of the future but this is not good for racing and can ruin electric racing. The reason I'm saying this is because I have been actively testing Lipos and I can see a difference in performance and changes being made frequently. I have tested packs from leading manufacturers and they range from 7.06 to 7.28 in average voltage and 12.0 to 8.6 in IR at 35amps. SMC is working closely with a manufacturer of Lipos and we have seen that they can improve there packs fairly frequently and once Lipos become legal for racing I'm pretty sure we can get the manufacturers to make special Lipos suited for racing with more power. This will most likely be at the expense of reliability and price but in the end racers will buy the best and most powerful Lipo pack so it will be the same issues as NiMH and probably worse.
Lipo (and brushless) isn't going to ruin electric racing-it's going to save it! The problem with NIMH batteries is that people can ABUSE them to gain an advantage-and they do.What's the difference in horsepower between a NIMH pack charged at 5 amps and one charged at 10 amps? It's huge! What's the difference in horsepower with a Lipo pack charged at 1C and charged at 2C? NONE!

How long are the "good numbers" good on a nimh pack? A few cycles if you don't abuse them. How long is a nimh pack still good enough to be a "race" pack? Not very. How long are the numbers still good on a lipo pack? No one knows yet because they have only been using them for a COUPLE YEARS!

How many packs do you need when racing with lipos? Two per car MAX and you can get away with one because they don't need to be peaked to deliver good power.

How many discharge trays do you need to own when racing with lipos? NONE!

Yes of course they will get better-IT'S TECHNOLOGY-and progress marches on.Sub-C nimh batteries (and brushed 540 motors) have been pushed to the edge of their potential and have become fragile,disposeable,junk.Lipo and brushless are at the beginning of their development curve and it's going to be a LONG time before your "doomsday" predicition has any chance of becoming reality.These new advances are making this HOBBY what it should be for those of us out here in the "real world" (weekly club racers that do this for FUN and never go to the "big" races). A stupid little toy car that we race for the fun of it should'nt have the maintenence cycle of a top fuel car like they do now with the old tech. I can safely say that I speak for a lot of people when I say "I've had enough and I'm just not going to take it any more". If I can't run brushless and lipo-I won't race.Period!It's too late-the genie's out of the bottle-we've seen Paree-we've lost our virginity and know what we've been missing. It's the future-it's the reality you have to deal with.Accept it,adapt to it,and survive-or go the way of the dodo,the nightsoilman,and the ice house.You're not going to make any friends,or earn any respect,trying to scare people off with BS about how it will be worse than it is now.It can't be! And don't forget that .001 volt only makes a difference to those running stock and 19 turn at very high levels of competition and very high levels of traction.What about all of us running mod on the dirt?

Right now local tracks are in the process of allowing lipos.A year from now they will be in the process of REQUIRING lipos-because nimh's leave the door wide open to poor sportsmanship.
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:31 PM   #107
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[QUOTE=McSmooth]Two completely different situations. Fuel tanks aren't getting bigger and therefore supplying more hp to the engine.

So how in the name or the R/C god does more fuel capacity equal more horsepower again?
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:38 PM   #108
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Trust me we will adapt to any change in technology and will start matching and assembling Lipo cells if need be. We will also have the best possible Lipos built for racing so I don't really care as we will offer and sell whatever is needed for racing. I just know that racers will get very upset when they show up at races and there is a new specially made for racing Lipo or that team guys have special packs that give them an edge. You may think this is a scare tactic but it's the truth.
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:46 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Trust me we will adapt to any change in technology and will start matching and assembling Lipo cells if need be. We will also have the best possible Lipos built for racing so I don't really care as we will offer and sell whatever is needed for racing. I just know that racers will get very upset when they show up at races and there is a new specially made for racing Lipo or that team guys have special packs that give them an edge. You may think this is a scare tactic but it's the truth.
Exactly. Someone will always figure out how to make packs better....no matter what kind and someone will always have better ones.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:21 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
I have tested packs from leading manufacturers and they range from 7.06 to 7.28 in average voltage and 12.0 to 8.6 in IR at 35amps.
I'll give you $400 for that 7.28v li-po with 8.6 IR. They're allowing Li-po at this race we're going to in March. "techincally" $400 is a good deal, just need the one. I'll also take the first of 7.3's you see, when that happens. I pm'd you the info.

This actually works out pretty sweet for the new guys, as the guys that have been playing with li-po and using them (the early adoptors) are going to be down in voltage, pretty substantially, and have higher IR's now that the new stuff is coming out with lower IR's. I'll have a pretty good edge.

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Old 02-06-2007, 07:29 PM   #111
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I just got some new samples in this week so I may have something even better for you. I will gladly send you a pack but the current packs we have are long as they are not made to fit in cars. We are working on getting them to fit cars so expect SMC High Performance Lipos soon.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:33 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
I just got some new samples in this week so I may have something even better for you. I will gladly send you a pack but the current packs we have are long as they are not made to fit in cars. We are working on getting them to fit cars so expect SMC High Performance Lipos soon.
Perfect. You da man!
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:17 PM   #113
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Any chance of there being lipo's for 12th scale?
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Old 02-06-2007, 09:36 PM   #114
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Okay, I also have already posted my view about LiPo vs. NiMh. However as Sosidge said this is about the GP4600 cells. I myself happened on this thread because I was looking for a way to discharge my IB4200s quickly and properly in between heats.

I was somewhat hopeful of the new GPs so that I may go back to discharging packs on my 0-30 discharger. Battery maintenance with GPs is much easier to deal with than what is involved with the IBs. IMHO if it weren't for the IBs, people would have been happy with the simplicity and durability of the GP cells such that LiPo wouldn't be as attractive as it is now.

I myself am one of those, as posted by someone else here, who race for the sake to get out of the house and be among guys with similar interests in cars. There are many guys at my local track who are very fast. Fast so much so that it is more than just good driving and set-up. Of course to keep up I would have to run similar equipment which is whole list of pit equipment necessary to "trick" more speed into a brushed stock motor with NiMh cells. While I'm able to afford the extra gear, the thought of "working" this extra gear seems to take all the fun out of running RC cars.

So if the GP4600s have better voltage and capacity than the IBs it would have been a great battery then. Its just that it has come a little too late to prolong the usefullness of NiMh for RC.
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:11 PM   #115
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YR4Dude the IB4200s aren't harder to maintain than GP cells. I use a 0-30 tray on my 4200s. You keep them stored with 600-700 seconds of charge at 6 amps and then when you show up at the track discharge them down to .90 per cell on T35 or something similar then tray them down until all the lights go off on the 0-30 then start charging the pack.

If GP4600s have high voltage and low IR they will most likely react like IB cells. The GP3700s and GP4300s react similarly to IB cells. It's just the way this newer technology reacts.
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Old 02-07-2007, 04:05 AM   #116
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I dont know whether it has been mentioned or not but according to GP

"For the new 4300, it is with higher MPV of >/= 1.23V. And the 4600 is
merely of higher capacity of 4600mAh (typical) with MPV >/= 1.20V"

This seems to indicate that the 4600 will not have the higher voltage and maybe not as susceptible to self discharge as the other brands

I will have some of these cells for racing at the TITC in Thailand in late February. I will let you know the results of matching these cells next week
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Old 02-07-2007, 04:46 AM   #117
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cannon back at ya
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Old 02-07-2007, 07:38 AM   #118
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Now this worths talking about: http://www.gpbatteries.com.hk/html/techinfo/LithPly.asp

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Old 02-07-2007, 09:55 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
I just got some new samples in this week so I may have something even better for you. I will gladly send you a pack but the current packs we have are long as they are not made to fit in cars. We are working on getting them to fit cars so expect SMC High Performance Lipos soon.
RIGHT ON DANNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me know as soon as you have some ready to go! I would love to test some for you out here!!!

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Old 02-07-2007, 10:11 AM   #120
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Danny,

No question this is gonna happen eventually but the virtually maintennance free design and the longer lifetime still make LiPo appealing.
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