GP 4600

Old 02-02-2007, 04:23 AM
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I too like steak. And ribs.

Two points to make:

1) Yes, there are other uses for NiMH cells so don't think they're just making them for us. Of course they want to progress in mah to be better than the next guy.

2) Just because a new version is released doesn't mean you have to upgrade. I've only this month upgraded to 4200s. I was just as competitive with 2.5 year old 3300s. Especially with brushless motors, the voltage difference is less pronounced.

So stop whinging and be thankful for progress. Without it we'd all be racing Tamiya Holiday Buggies! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok-AE4ehgKE
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Old 02-02-2007, 05:24 AM
  #47  
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The GP4600, IB4200 etc are ONLY for RC use. You won't find them in any other application.

Perhaps these cells are a small part of their sales in terms of units (perhaps 100,000 cells worldwide as a wild, wild guess), but they are a premium product, so they are worth doing in terms of income. Typical cordless drill cells would cost a dollar or less at the factory gates.
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Old 02-02-2007, 06:46 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by sosidge
The GP4600, IB4200 etc are ONLY for RC use. You won't find them in any other application.

Perhaps these cells are a small part of their sales in terms of units (perhaps 100,000 cells worldwide as a wild, wild guess), but they are a premium product, so they are worth doing in terms of income. Typical cordless drill cells would cost a dollar or less at the factory gates.
So, how much extra do we pay for that "special" shrink wrap on our cells?

If these cells were designed and manufactured just for the R/C market, they would cost about $50 per cell. The costs of design and manufacture need to be spread across a much larger sales base than the R/C area is capable of supporting on its own.

Don't believe the marketing hype that these cells are "just for us".
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Old 02-02-2007, 06:54 AM
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I wasn't going to get into it...but it's comical reading....


100,000 cells I would agree.that's a wild guess, I'd say more, but have NO idea what the number is. My only comparison is let's say there are only 1000 racers in teh world

100 are using an associated car
100 are using an xray
100 are using a losi
etc etc.


so each company is only selling 100 cars.

However almost ALL of them are using GP/IB/EP batteries. Not only is each one using GP/IB cells, but several packs of GP/IB cells. And what about those guys that buy new packs just for a race...so they are buying MORE cells(with the exception of the lipo guys) which I think are still a minority but picking up steam.
I think it is possible for that company (IB/GP/EP) whoever to be able to make cells soley for our purpose. Do I know for sure they are doing that, NO, but I think it's possible. If the car manufactures can do their R/D for there products and sell them SOLEY to a "few" of us then certainly IB/GP/EP can make a product just for us.

I'd say the guys to ask about the possible number of cells purchased would be SMC. I think they do the most buying then distrubute to a lot of other matchers.
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Old 02-02-2007, 07:00 AM
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Keep in mind that even if these cells are just for the RC world - it doesn't mean the R&D costs fall soley on these cells. The R&D done on another cell for another application is probably easily applied to our cells or vice versa. (assuming we're talking nimh)
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Old 02-02-2007, 07:26 AM
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Blah..blah...blah...battery war this and that NiMh. Everyone just has to make the decision that LiPo is the future so everyone can stop complaining. If everyone refuses to use anything but LiPo then ROAR will have no choice but to make them legal. Screw ROARS rules against LiPo and screw ROARS thoughts on going to fewer cells, it was just a tactic to keep LiPo out of R/C racing anyway so that the battery matchers wouldn't go out of business.
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Old 02-02-2007, 07:36 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by gotpez
So, how much extra do we pay for that "special" shrink wrap on our cells?

If these cells were designed and manufactured just for the R/C market, they would cost about $50 per cell. The costs of design and manufacture need to be spread across a much larger sales base than the R/C area is capable of supporting on its own.

Don't believe the marketing hype that these cells are "just for us".
These cells are actually relatively expensive. Some inexpensive 6-cell assembled stick packs cost less than a single premium cell. These companies make cells for other applications, but the ones we use are specifically made for R/C use.

Perhaps this is why companies like Sanyo can no longer compete. The IBs and GPs of the world have lower expenses and can produce special cells "just for us", with constant updates while we were "stuck" using re-shrunk cordless drill batteries with the other brands.
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Old 02-02-2007, 07:40 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
Blah..blah...blah...battery war this and that NiMh. Everyone just has to make the decision that LiPo is the future so everyone can stop complaining. If everyone refuses to use anything but LiPo then ROAR will have no choice but to make them legal. Screw ROARS rules against LiPo and screw ROARS thoughts on going to fewer cells, it was just a tactic to keep LiPo out of R/C racing anyway so that the battery matchers wouldn't go out of business.
Don't blame ROAR exclusively. While they do not allow them, there are many more tracks, series, and race organizers with no ROAR affiliation that don't allow them.

While I think going to fewer cells is a tactic to prevent LiPo from getting a foothold, it is the manufacturers and matchers of NiMh cells that have put the pressure on ROAR and non-ROAR tracks/series/race organizers to "outlaw" them.
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Old 02-02-2007, 08:08 AM
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Lets be cutting edge, and finally put ourselves ahead of the rest of the world, LEGALIZE LIPO's! I'm tired of this battery of the month sh*t. I may have to retire for 2-3 yrs and come back when NiMh is a word noone says anymore.
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Old 02-02-2007, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
Don't blame ROAR exclusively. While they do not allow them, there are many more tracks, series, and race organizers with no ROAR affiliation that don't allow them.

While I think going to fewer cells is a tactic to prevent LiPo from getting a foothold, it is the manufacturers and matchers of NiMh cells that have put the pressure on ROAR and non-ROAR tracks/series/race organizers to "outlaw" them.
I know it isn't ROAR exclusively but they are the ones that caved and bowed to the battery companies and matchers plus they are the main ruling body in R/C Racing for North America...so they will catch most of the blame. I also realize that many tracks and series don't allow them but they don't mostly based on ROARS ruling. Our track allows them...and racing is better for it. There are guys that used to go to every major series race and aren't going now since making the switch to LiPo. They don't want to get into all this battery junk. They just want to race.
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Old 02-02-2007, 08:24 AM
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I'm a relative beginner, and I'll make my choice of the next batteries to buy based on a blend of durability and voltage. Voltage alone is too expensive at the cost of batteries that have a short lifetime. Based on my experience with RC planes, I'd favor lipo, if it were legal for competition at our track.
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Old 02-02-2007, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Iceracer
I'm a relative beginner, and I'll make my choice of the next batteries to buy based on a blend of durability and voltage. Voltage alone is too expensive at the cost of batteries that have a short lifetime. Based on my experience with RC planes, I'd favor lipo, if it were legal for competition at our track.
Force it to be legal. Vote with your dollars. If nobody shows up to race because they don't allow LiPo...they'll allow it. I'm sure they don't want to go out of business. Show them the durability of the Orion/Peak Carbon 3200's, they fit in just about anywhere a regular set of batteries would fit and the voltage is consistent.
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Old 02-02-2007, 08:31 AM
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Heh...all this LiPo vs NiMH reminds me of "The Struggle for Power" back in the late 1800s.

DC/Thomas Edison versus AC/George Westinghouse

Nerd humor

http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/c...=3456872&lid=1
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Old 02-02-2007, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by McSmooth
Heh...all this LiPo vs NiMH reminds me of "The Struggle for Power" back in the late 1800s.

DC/Thomas Edison versus AC/George Westinghouse

Nerd humor

http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/c...=3456872&lid=1
Great, now I learned something...I didn't get out of bed today to LEARN.
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Old 02-02-2007, 11:24 AM
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To me, these batteries coming out means that I can buy used, perfectly good and rippin 4200 batteries for cheap. When battery technology moves forward, I get a newer gen battery myself. My track should legalize LiPo next year, that means MH and all the fuss can kiss it.
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