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Old 02-16-2007, 03:32 AM   #211
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Ford Racing ... bad guess

IB4200 and GP4300 are similar weight

THe GP4600 are about 1 g heavier per cell
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:40 PM   #212
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Where can i buy some of these GP 4600s?
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Old 03-17-2007, 07:14 PM   #213
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Default Fair...now there is a good word

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
My point is not that Lipos aren't good. They may very will be more durable but the problem is trying to keep racing fair. If you allow them for racing then it will become a pack of the month. Look at how many companies are making Lipos. For sub-c racing cells there is only 3-4 companies who are showing interest and able to make a cell suitable for racing.

I have a few friends who race every week and have sub-c packs that I gave them in September and they are still using them to win A mains so I'm not sure why some think that the current cells only last a few cycles but that can be whole new debate.
Ok, I've seen Danny and a few others mention lipos not being fair about a dozen times so far in this thread. I was just looking for info on the nimh cells, but I gotta say that saying lipos are going to be any less fair is total and utter bs. Nimh is already unfair. Why? Because the sponsored guys all get to replace their cells as often as they wish while I'm stuck running 2 year old packs and buying their used packs cuz I can't afford to replace all my packs every 3 months. The current crop favors the guys with the biggest wallet, period. Lipo will probably have the same problems, so what. At least I'll still be getting the performance I paid for 6 months down the line.

Oh and Danny, thanks alot man. You've convinced me not to ever buy smc! You sound exactly like microsoft bashing linux, the record companies bashing online sales, the movie industry bashing VCR, and every other dinosaur protecting his old tech. Move on.

And ya, lipos are more expensive, that's why I still run my old nimh. I don't need top performance as I'm only out to have fun and I've already got most of the nimh gear. That being said, after looking at all the crap guys are doing to get the best out of their newer cells I think I will switch to lipo when my 3300s finally die. 1 discharge tray per pack? 2 or 3 chargers going at once? The secondary gear alone that I'd need to go mod would cost more than a pair of lipos and a bl esc and motor!
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:22 PM   #214
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"Total and utter bs?" Are you aware that Lipos are 7.4 volts and Nimh are 7.2 volts? That's what is known as "unfair". It's like allowing two different octane fuels to run together. Take Danny's comments in context next time. He is talking about sanctioned racing.
SMC has LiPos coming out soon so you can forget about that conspiracy theory you have brewing. Probably LiPos that give great performance for the money too. That's hardly a "dinosaur protecting old tech". Your post is absurd.
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Old 03-18-2007, 01:43 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serandin
Ok, I've seen Danny and a few others mention lipos not being fair about a dozen times so far in this thread. I was just looking for info on the nimh cells, but I gotta say that saying lipos are going to be any less fair is total and utter bs. Nimh is already unfair. Why? Because the sponsored guys all get to replace their cells as often as they wish while I'm stuck running 2 year old packs and buying their used packs cuz I can't afford to replace all my packs every 3 months. The current crop favors the guys with the biggest wallet, period. Lipo will probably have the same problems, so what. At least I'll still be getting the performance I paid for 6 months down the line.

Oh and Danny, thanks alot man. You've convinced me not to ever buy smc! You sound exactly like microsoft bashing linux, the record companies bashing online sales, the movie industry bashing VCR, and every other dinosaur protecting his old tech. Move on.

And ya, lipos are more expensive, that's why I still run my old nimh. I don't need top performance as I'm only out to have fun and I've already got most of the nimh gear. That being said, after looking at all the crap guys are doing to get the best out of their newer cells I think I will switch to lipo when my 3300s finally die. 1 discharge tray per pack? 2 or 3 chargers going at once? The secondary gear alone that I'd need to go mod would cost more than a pair of lipos and a bl esc and motor!

Sorry if you don't agree with my points of view about Lipos but I can assure you if they become legal for sanctioned racing they will be bad and hurt racing. I'm sure the same people who allowed brushless to run against brushed motors will eventually allow 7.4 volts lipos against 7.2 volts NiMhs and they will think this will be good for racing.
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Old 03-18-2007, 02:05 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Sorry if you don't agree with my points of view about Lipos but I can assure you if they become legal for sanctioned racing they will be bad and hurt racing. I'm sure the same people who allowed brushless to run against brushed motors will eventually allow 7.4 volts lipos against 7.2 volts NiMhs and they will think this will be good for racing.
So you are also implying that brushless was bad for racing?
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Old 03-18-2007, 02:14 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
"Total and utter bs?" Are you aware that Lipos are 7.4 volts and Nimh are 7.2 volts? That's what is known as "unfair". .
Argghh but you forget we are seeing 1.23+ quite a lot now in these `supposed` to be 1.2v cell
6 x 1.23 = 7.38, to get these figure`s for nimh they discharged for the full 5000 r/t unless the lables are not telling the whole story with re to nimh having good numbers on cells

just remember if your using No.'s to win racers over
nimh peak @9.2v .lipo peaks of @8.4v ,this is why nimh are faster in the first min + then they even out out to be same as li-po ,then ltr in the race lipo stays better
so nimh have the advantage in the first half of race
lipo has advantage in secong half of race
honours even in the `unfair ` department

bit harsh on Danny by seradin, but i can see the point about it being better for quite a few racers

me perssonally will be using orion carbon end off , unless this battery releasing wars stops & bring back the good times had with the GP3300 ,then i`m not intersted in these fragile cells we get now

as serandin said c-cells suit the wallet user`s more ,
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:00 AM   #218
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is there anyone who have these cells on sale?
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:12 AM   #219
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http://www.racingfactory.fi/shop2/ca...ils.php?p=1248
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:55 AM   #220
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Quote:
"Total and utter bs?" Are you aware that Lipos are 7.4 volts and Nimh are 7.2 volts? That's what is known as "unfair".
show me a matched NiMh pack that doesn't put ou ATLEAST 7.4v.. and the concensus is that NiMh packs actually run stronger than LiPo's..

here are some "racer cells" what some factory guys might call practice packs from xpress.. "Intellect IB4200 WC Nickel-Metal Hydride Cells
Unassembled, 390+ Seconds Runtime, Average Voltage 1.241++++V+"
that's 7.446v for the mathematically challenged..
and here are some culls (batts that don't meets their high standards) from EA.
"#1 414-416RT, 1.238-1.244VT, 1.5-1.7IR. 40.00 (Sold)
#2 400-412RT, 1.239-1.255VT, 1.3-1.5IR. 40.00 (Sold)
#3 411-419RT, 1.231-1.245VT, 1.5-1.7IR. 36.00 (Sold)
#4 418-419RT, 1.233-1.241VT, 1.3-1.7IR. 36.00 (Sold)
#5 408-417RT, 1.229-1.237VT, 1.3-1.7IR. 34.00 (Sold)

i like the #2.. a matched pack of those would be 7.53v...
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:07 AM   #221
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I have no interest in these cells or any other NIMH cells. I've got 3 packs of IB4200's and they will not be replaced once they crap out. The people who are trying to hold back the new technology right now are doing a grave disservice to the hobby and their disinformation, half truths, and downright lies won't go unpunished.
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:21 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leodis
I have no interest in these cells or any other NIMH cells. I've got 3 packs of IB4200's and they will not be replaced once they crap out. The people who are trying to hold back the new technology right now are doing a grave disservice to the hobby and their disinformation, half truths, and downright lies won't go unpunished.
I love how lipo lovers believe that anyone who doesn't embrace this technology is a conspirator in the great anti-lipo empire. I've spent many years working in a hobby shop, and my father is an avid electric park flyer. Don't believe there's any difference in lipo cells? Thunder Power is constantly upgrading their product line, far more quickly than even IB. My father can show you two different packs from Thunder Power, purchased the same day, and from the same distributor order, that vary GREATLY in performance. Same plane, same weather conditions, pack two CONSISTENLY offers greater voltage output for 25-30 sec. longer. The plane performs better throughout the duration of the flight with pack two. In order to test this theory, each pack was charged on a hobbico field charger, and then discharged a 2 amps, which would be 1C, for these packs, and pack two, though identical in construction, age and level of maintenance to pack 1, held on for 32 more seconds before cutting off.

Lipos also degrade in performance as they're run. Like a NIMH, after a few cycles they offer their greatest performance for five or so cycles then they level off. Yes,after they level off they provide a far greater number of cycles before dying, but FRESH packs are still superior to older cells. So if you're club racing with your buddies, yeah they're better. But you're still gonna have to have fresh sticks if you're attending a big event, or if you've got a big battery buying (or sponsored) hot-shoe at your local track, you're in exactly the same boat you're in right now.

Don't think for an instant we won't be matching these cells, or we won't come up with ways to optimize their performance. Believe me, you're gonna see a whole new wave of battery conditioning gizmos, and maintenance routines once the power hungry on-road and oval crowd take these things mainstream. Keep pushin' new technology, you'll get what you ask for in spades.......
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:23 AM   #223
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Default what they say vs what they do......

7.4 lipo vs 7.2 mimh

there is a track called Fastlane in the Kansas City area. they race a lipo/10.5/foam sedan class. they did it for cost, but they allow Nimh in it. some of their top drivers still choose nimh. some there have told me that a fresh nimh will trounce the current lipo packs. i haven't been on the threads they post on, but i remember some making comments about not allwing nimh....

sort of the way a IB4200 trounces a GP4300
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:27 AM   #224
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Its already been discussed on every other thread that Lipo's are actually at a slight voltage disadvantage. The voltage a new IB4200 is nowhere near 7.2 volts except maybe at the full nominal discharge voltage, but who races with a near dead pack anyway? This has been widely known for a few years now, So reading that 7.4 volt lipo packs are unfair is crazy, Ya, maybe if we raced 8-10 min races it would allow enough milliamps to get used in the NiMh pack to make a huge difference, since the lipo doesnt fall off until the end.
Whats unfair is the powers that be have allowed the NiMh to keep growing in size, weight, capacity, and voltage without asking what the future consequences will be. Now we're seeing 5 cell talk to bring the weight back down, and keep motors and speed's from frying. But in doing so Bl systems must be used for max efficiency.
I'm with the rest of the crowd who are buying lipo, when my 3800's die off thats it....no more NiMh for me. I'd rather spend $80 for an orion 3200 and get atleast 2 yrs out of them.
The new news is that orions packs are now certified for 2C charging this means a 3200 pack can be charged at 6 amps, in about 25min! Talk about bringing the fun back in to racing. dont take my word for it, Mr. Black posted this on the other lipo thread about a week or so ago.
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:38 AM   #225
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Don't think for an instant we won't be matching these cells, or we won't come up with ways to optimize their performance.
That's a great example of the half-truths I was talking about. Of course people will always try to come up with new ways to optimize their performance. However, I'm not a battery wizard and even I know that lipo packs these days are already "matched".
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