R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-25-2007, 12:38 PM   #1
Tech Elite
 
dawgmeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,505
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default Non-Roar club trophy races-vs-Roar club events

A local carpet track is having a trophy race and for the first time will allow brushless 13.5 to run with stock and 4300 to run with 19-turn. At first the owner had some reservations about doing it because the assumption that some racer might groan about the idea but will give it a try, I guess my question is why are we letting Roar have such a huge impact on how and what to race at a non roar event.

IMO
1. Any racer that came in the the hobby with the last 3 year period is part of that RTR/brushless era can't use their stuff and have to convert over to brush motors and suppport epuipment. Allow brushless and you will see a bigger turnout.

2. How can you tech brushless at a club trophy race. I don't have the answer for that one....... I think its worth a shot but your better off seeing Jesus in a sun dress if you don't think people cheat in stock.

3. Hopefully bigger Non-Roar events such as Vegas, Birds, and Cleveland can embrace change in the future, if the 2005/2006 KO grand prix can allow lipos to run with 4200/4300 cells in their 23-turn spec class then should be moving in that direction with brushless.

4. In stock/19-turn brushless will be slower then brush motors, I'm not bashing brush motors I just think it time to throw bruchless in the mix
dawgmeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 12:45 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ROAR HAD ME BANNED FROM RC TECH.
Posts: 2,025
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
4. In stock/19-turn brushless will be slower then brush motors, I'm not bashing brush motors I just think it time to throw bruchless in the mix
I was against brushless running with stock, but the 13.5 is comparable. It's not slower, in fact it seems like you've got a lot of motor with it but you don't have the low end torque and rip out of the corners. We had a race where one guy was running a 13.5 in stock and he did very well, he by no means blew everyone away but it was real noticeable how much rip he had down the straight. Had he had more time to set it car up for carpet he would have been the man to beat.

Considering the turn out of most races I say go for it, and let things settle. If it is obvious that brushless is the way to go, we'll either all migrate to it or form brushed motor classes where those who still like to tune brushed motors can play. I for one won't be going brushless for a long time still, but it will happen, brushless is the future.
Desolas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 12:45 PM   #3
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgmeat
A local carpet track is having a trophy race and for the first time will allow brushless 13.5 to run with stock and 4300 to run with 19-turn. At first the owner had some reservations about doing it because the assumption that some racer might groan about the idea but will give it a try, I guess my question is why are we letting Roar have such a huge impact on how and what to race at a non roar event.
Maybe something is missing in your post, but what does a track's reluctance to run the motors in the same class have to do with ROAR?
__________________
www.reedypower.com
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 01:02 PM   #4
Tech Elite
 
dawgmeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,505
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
Maybe something is missing in your post, but what does a track's reluctance to run the motors in the same class have to do with ROAR?
I'm not bashing Roar but it seem as if we're all conditioned to believe that if roar doesn't allow it at their races then we can't run at ours

I guess I should inserted this part before went to my next work station
dawgmeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 01:05 PM   #5
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago Illinois USA
Posts: 9,106
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Send a message via ICQ to Solara Send a message via AIM to Solara
Default

Why ROAR at the beginning...?

Our track mix 13.5 and stock.......high end brush motor STILL has the edge over 13.5. However, regular and lazy ppl like me that run 13.5 now does have a better lap and race time then using brushed motor. BUT.......still slower then the top brushed motor driver.

Let them mix.....it is time to do so. It will NOT turn ppl away. Ppl will come to race, espeically touphy race. They stay home (like me) because they have to stay home for family, work or business........not because they are against racing against brushless.
Solara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 01:33 PM   #6
Tech Champion
 
Nova F1 Racer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Peoples Republic of Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,682
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgmeat
I'm not bashing Roar but it seem as if we're all conditioned to believe that if roar doesn't allow it at their races then we can't run at ours

I guess I should inserted this part before went to my next work station
That sounds like a problem/issue on your tracks racers then anything else.
ROAR has events and its rules, your track/event should come up with it's own set of rules and guidelines and don't use ROAR and it's rules.

Example, not all 27 turn stock motors are ROAR approved, can people use any 27 turn motor cause I know a person that can tune a non-ROAR stock motor that is faster than any 19 turn motor but it will only last for 4-5 runs..
__________________
This is DICK!!! And you're NOT!
RC Tech member #11
Aussie Rules Footy, Brisbane LIONS!!
[url]http://www.pitter-pat.com/[/url] for pet care needs in Northern Virginia
Nova F1 Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 02:24 PM   #7
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Even ROAR tracks can run whatevery they want at club races. ROAR tracks can run mixed 13.5 and Stock...hell they can run mixed mod sedan and 1/8 buggy if they really want to. Club races are called level 1 races and the race director (who ever is putting on the race) can adjust the rules to best suit the local racers.

ROAR puts no limits at all on racers until you get up to the regional and national level. At those race the rules are enforced to give everyone a level playing field.

FYI, ROAR will never run a mixed 13.5 and stock class at a regional or national level because the 13.5 motors when run with sintered magents are ~3/10ths per lap faster than the best Stock motor and thats not fair for the guy that do not want to invest in a BL system at this time. With bonded rotors you have to gear them up to be fast and they thermal unless you race in an icebox so sintered rotor are what most guy are running.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 02:25 PM   #8
Tech Elite
 
dr_hfuhuhurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,503
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Default

Our track is mixing stock and stock brushless. We are self policing and always have been really. Most club races I've attended have been.

I do believe Brushless stock is faster. One of our top local drivers ran 2 laps faster on the same layout with brushless over brushed. Same track, same car, same setup. The only difference was the brushless (this was 12th scale).

For newcomers to the hobby running brushless stock is cheaper when you factor in the cost of the esc, motor, lathe, tuning tools, etc. vs just the brushless esc and motor.
__________________
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Which side are you on?"

“Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid.” - John Wayne
dr_hfuhuhurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 02:51 PM   #9
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

I totally agree BL is the future. We just need to get to the point where BL can get its own class and its own rules. That will certianly happen maybe as soon as 2008.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 04:47 PM   #10
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Would seem not such bad thing combining the two ...
More racer`s will race stock if they were allowed too...

This is a good thing for stock program`s everywhere as far as I`m concerned...

more is betta everytime....

Sorry Adrian


Combining both type works just fine in the Mod class`s , stock would be the same !

also
Having a separate class just for stock brushless will only divide the ranks and hurt the stock class as a result ....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 05:14 PM   #11
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Would seem not such bad thing combining the two ...
More racer`s will race stock if they were allowed too...

This is a good thing for stock program`s everywhere as far as I`m concerned...

more is betta everytime....

Sorry Adrian


Combining both type works just fine in the Mod class`s , stock would be the same !

also
Having a separate class just for stock brushless will only divide the ranks and hurt the stock class as a result ....
It does help in getting more people to sign-up for the stock class. But, the 13.5 is 1 lap faster at least per 5 minute race. More low end and way faster down the straight. It's more like running an average 19 turn motor. But, at my local tracks in nor-cal we are all doing it. But, all the racers know that they are at a disadvantage running brushed stock against the 13.5
Juan Aveytia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 06:01 PM   #12
Tech Elite
 
HarshGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 3,379
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Aveytia
It does help in getting more people to sign-up for the stock class. But, the 13.5 is 1 lap faster at least per 5 minute race. More low end and way faster down the straight. It's more like running an average 19 turn motor. But, at my local tracks in nor-cal we are all doing it. But, all the racers know that they are at a disadvantage running brushed stock against the 13.5
You need to learn how to tune brushed motors!!
__________________
http://www.arroyoc.com
http://www.gearchart.com
http://www.weracemountainbikes.com
HarshGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 06:49 PM   #13
Tech Master
 
STARSCREAM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,351
Default

I say we get rid of these local series races and get back to club racing and National events....
__________________
Sean Maybell

Team Associated/Reedy/LRP
STARSCREAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 07:29 PM   #14
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: auburn washington
Posts: 2,053
Default

at our local indoor pavement track it has set track record over brushed motors, so no they are not equal and should not be in the same class, however a slow guy in stock will still be slow with a bl and a fast guy will still be fast. IMO the 13.5 does not meet the "stock" specs and is not a stock motor and should have its own class.

in off road, i have found that the 13.5 also has a advantage.



but with all that said, its not up to us who runs what and where, its up the local track to decide whats go for them and thier program.
Turtlemaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 07:31 PM   #15
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: auburn washington
Posts: 2,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Would seem not such bad thing combining the two ...
More racer`s will race stock if they were allowed too...

This is a good thing for stock program`s everywhere as far as I`m concerned...

more is betta everytime.... .
can i run stock george or will the two plus years of harassment for doing so continue.
Turtlemaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tech at club races RoachRacing Electric On-Road 24 08-06-2008 02:59 AM
Tamiya club races just like before tony q Racing Forum 16 07-04-2006 05:54 PM
2-day Trophy Race IROAR R/C Club Oct. 16-17th Danny B Electric On-Road 0 09-16-2004 03:12 PM
ROAR Region 1 What's Going On Calendar of Events raffaelli Racing Forum 0 01-05-2004 09:36 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:28 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net