R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-24-2007, 07:44 PM   #16
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Thame, Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 143
Send a message via MSN to Mark Stiles
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard
either that or sleeping between rounds...
I wasnt sleeping; just looking at the insides of my eyelids! Besides, I'm a student; what do you expect?!

Thinking about it, if I can sleep on the job and still beat you, Ed; I reckon I might win if I can stay awake!
__________________
Yokomo - Reedy - Protoform - A-Paint - CML Distribution - Racer Magazine - Zen-Racing - MomentumRC

BRCA 1/12 Electric Circuit Section Chairman
Mark Stiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 07:47 PM   #17
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Thame, Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 143
Send a message via MSN to Mark Stiles
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nnick
My problem is not the fact if the bodies are realistic or not but the fact only 1-2 from the list can be found!!!!

Nick
Are you saying you'd run any of the others, even if you could buy then?!

If the rare ones were better than the zytek, then they'd still be being made in large numbers and then they wouldnt be rare! The fact is that they're not as good, so nobody uses them, and therefore they arent made in large quantities.
__________________
Yokomo - Reedy - Protoform - A-Paint - CML Distribution - Racer Magazine - Zen-Racing - MomentumRC

BRCA 1/12 Electric Circuit Section Chairman
Mark Stiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 05:49 AM   #18
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cheshire, Engalnd
Posts: 41
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt
Well if their argument is that the other bodies don't look realistic enough then that argument is blown out of the water with the inclusion of the P-35. The P-35 looked nothing like any of the GTP cars running at the time and to me was the start of the performance/realistic trend.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/nissanp35.html

Are you quite sure? looks pretty reasonable to me, might you be confusing it with the Nissan GTP?
JimSpencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 11:36 AM   #19
Tech Champion
 
TryHard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 5,284
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Stiles
I wasnt sleeping; just looking at the insides of my eyelids! Besides, I'm a student; what do you expect?!

Thinking about it, if I can sleep on the job and still beat you, Ed; I reckon I might win if I can stay awake!
Not sure if I should take that as compliment or not...
__________________
| THard.co.uk | Xray | MuchMore |
TryHard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 01:02 PM   #20
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 620
Default 1/12th scale body mess

I usually try not to get drawn into these type of dialogues however the comment by InspGadgt is slightly annoying. It does however demonstrate to all who read this stuff how often I find myself in a "no win" situation as a body designer/manufacturer.
I had the incredible luck (in late 1992) of being in Vista CA for a tour of the NPTI Nissan race team factory/facility - ironically the same day as the press conference and unveiling of the P35 Nissan Group C racer. I took photos and measurements that day and did my utmost as an rc body-biz newbie to replicate the style and details of that car in both 1/10th and 1/12th scale - while also trying to make it functional for the racer. I've been under the impression since then that I had succeeded. Now I find out from this expert that it was the beginning of the end for the look of 1/12 scale bodies. Right.

JimSpenser: Thanks for your post and link.

For those who didn't ever have a chance to see it, yes, Protoform did produce a Speed 8 body that was also as realistic as I could possibly make a racebody. I had the misfortune of debuting the body the same week as another US body manufacturer introduced their version of the Speed 8. Because this other Speed 8 was designed totally for speed and low c.g. and completely devoid of any realism at all - the hardcore racer naturally wanted it. When I found out ROAR legalized it - I pretty much heard the death knell for the Pf Speed 8. That was the beginning of the end and the time when the realistic apprearing 1/12th scale body began to *devolve - in my personal opinion.
*http://www.thefreedictionary.com/devolve
Without trying to re-hash the whole issue again - I must clarify something. I like realistic racebodies!! and always have! I honestly wish I could incorporate more realism into the molds I do. The biggest problem has been the various race sanctioning organizations around the world have always had vague body rules that don't really offer any real guidelines other than a few dimension limits and wing sizes. To complicate matters even worse, the men in charge quite often have a very sqewed and subjective way of making their decisions as to approve or reject. Its like they want us body manufacturers to somehow police ourselves in some bazaar way. Can you imagine what the racecar bodies would like like if ALMS, F1, Grand Am, and NASCAR etc only had a line or two in their repective rulebooks regarding bodies? My guess is that Jack Roush's NASCAR Fusions would look more like John Forces' Mustang funny cars! It's just the way it is in racing! It's all about competition - it's all about being faster than the next guy. Speed 12's "happen" because racers want to go fast and I want to help them. These are not concours events.
EXAMPLE: a few years ago Volvo was heavily into the BTCC (British Touring Car Championships) with their then-new S60. So I quite naturally did a Pf S60 and in spite of its many performance inhibiting shapes and features (so it would look like a real Volvo - long and blunt nosed), it was soundly deemed illegal by the BRCA. Why I asked? "Not realistic enough" was the only answer I recieved. They also told me that the Pf Mazda 6 had a "postage stamp size" roof. Right. The Pf Cadillac CTS was also an insult to them, but was in their own words, "reluctantly" approved. As if the body licensing issues aren't crazy enough - I've got to be a mind reader to please these guys. Meanwhile, the Japanese El Camino bodies are IFMAR Worlds approved. ????? These type of situations don't make me too overanctious to invest time and money in new molds for that part of the world - just to get the big "thumbs down".
The current EFRA 1/12th Approved Body list is indicative of how far things have erroded. 90% of the bodies on the approved list are sought after by "vintage rc parts" collectors. As the custodians of the sport of RC racing, I would have thought that there could be more done pro-actively by the ERFA body official to maintain the "look" and vitality of this sport we love. We all want to see the sport prosper and grow - and what's the most visual part of an RC car on a track, or on a magazine cover or in a storefront window? It's the body. There needs to be more effort put forth by the body homologation people to find a win/win/win/ situation for the sport, the racer and the manufacturer.

The "GBS" (Global Body Spec) for sedan bodies is by far the best thing to happen on the RC body scene since I started in this business. Hopefully there will be GBS guidelines for the 1/12th scale soon as well.

Dale Epp - Protoform

Last edited by daleepp; 01-25-2007 at 01:32 PM.
daleepp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 03:56 PM   #21
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8
Default

Dale

You have PM

Russ
Russ Giles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 04:21 PM   #22
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,186
Default

I appologize...my remark was not ment to be inflamatory only stating an opinion. Personally I like the P-35 body reguardless of how I feel toward it's realism. I'd still be racing it today if it were still available.

I completely agree with your assesment of the rules and rule making bodies on this respect. I would like to see a return to a more realistic body as well...especially short tails being modeled as such instead of being modeled as a long tail. Cars looked better when we had to attach a wing to the rear pod. I sure don't miss how bent up the wing and wing wire would get though.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 09:55 PM   #23
Tech Master
 
Jeff Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,913
Default

I think I have some P35 bodies, Speed 8 bodies and some Zytec bodies. Any bidders? haha.

I have a custom painted Protoform Speed 8 I haven't cut out I am sure of. I should send it to Dale.

Jeff
__________________
SXT Traction Compounds | www.TractionCompound.com
Jeff Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 11:41 PM   #24
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleepp
The current EFRA 1/12th Approved Body list is indicative of how far things have erroded. 90% of the bodies on the approved list are sought after by "vintage rc parts" collectors. Dale Epp - Protoform
Dale - it's the only part of your well-worded post that I didn't understand. Since you say that the modern bodies are not as realistic as you would like, how can a list of the older bodies, that were more realistic, have eroded the situation?

Isn't it the case that the EFRA list represents a list of cars far closer to your desire for "realistic cars"?

I hope you can talk this through with Russ, because the 12th Section of both the BRCA and EFRA has been far more consistent than the Touring Car Sections (where your experience is not unique, and the cars just look like 'blobs' now) about body approval.

PS - I too can buy a lot of the bodies on the EFRA list in the UK - just because something is not listed on a website doesn't mean it isn't available.
SlowerOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 12:16 AM   #25
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Manīs best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleepp
IEXAMPLE: a few years ago Volvo was heavily into the BTCC (British Touring Car Championships) with their then-new S60. So I quite naturally did a Pf S60 and in spite of its many performance inhibiting shapes and features (so it would look like a real Volvo - long and blunt nosed), it was soundly deemed illegal by the BRCA. Why I asked? "Not realistic enough" was the only answer I recieved.

Dale Epp - Protoform
I would say, as a Chief Designer at Volvo Cars Corporation: Great work Dale. It pass with flying colours!
Attached Thumbnails
EFRA 1/12 Body List-pf-volvo.jpg  
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 12:30 AM   #26
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Manīs best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleepp
I The current EFRA 1/12th Approved Body list is indicative of how far things have erroded. 90% of the bodies on the approved list are sought after by "vintage rc parts" collectors. As the custodians of the sport of RC racing, I would have thought that there could be more done pro-actively by the ERFA body official to maintain the "look" and vitality of this sport we love. We all want to see the sport prosper and grow - and what's the most visual part of an RC car on a track, or on a magazine cover or in a storefront window? It's the body. There needs to be more effort put forth by the body homologation people to find a win/win/win/ situation for the sport, the racer and the manufacturer.

The "GBS" (Global Body Spec) for sedan bodies is by far the best thing to happen on the RC body scene since I started in this business. Hopefully there will be GBS guidelines for the 1/12th scale soon as well.

Dale Epp - Protoform
I belewe rules need to be logic, easy to understand, for everybody, and not giving room for "personal interpretation". In order to make the sport fair. Are these? Whatīs can be found in a hobbyshop in England is not realy any help for drivers in the rest of Europe. Is it? Anybody should have the same chanse to get the stuff. "Only avalible in hobbyshops in Montana" would propably not please the US drivers...

I got this list in a mail from a driver, who did not know what to do now, weeks ahead of the European Championship. Not easy to give him a good answer either.
/Anders Myrberg
Chairman Electric, Sweden


Associated
#3174 - Nissan GTP90
http://aedownloads.com/excell/AEProducts.xls
Here you can find all Associated products in an excell file, do a search (ctrl+b) on the part number 3174, Nissan or GTP90 and you will find that no such product no longer exists!

CEFX
#14501 - DBA4 (Reynard 02S)
#14502 - Courage Peugeot
http://www.cefxraceway.net/tab2/stor...ry_id%253Db93s
Here you can find the bodies part numbered 14501 and 14502 but the names does not correspond to the EFRA list so which is it?
Corally
#78100 - Nissan GTP (Long)
#78105 - Nissan GTP (Short)
#78110 - Ferrari WSC (Hot)
#78115 - Nissan GTP (Hot)
#78120 - Mercedes

I didn't find any direct link at www.corally.com to any of their 1:12 bodies but by using google I found this link http://international.corally.com/parts/partlist.pdf which, accordingly to the Swedish distributor and team driver of Corally international, is a correct list.
In it you do not find a body named or numbered 78115 Nissan GTO (Hot).
In the list you have 78120 Mercedes, this body is an copy of the Yokomo SP12MS1 BUT that body is not allowed according to your EFRA list and the EFRA rules......how did you approve one but not the other?

CRC
#4169 - Courage Peugeot C60 Evo3
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...category_id=29

Here is the link to Calandras (CRC) bodies. As you can see there is no one with the part number 4169 or the name Courage Peugeot only "C-60 EVO-3 LMP" with partnumber 4160
Hot Bodies
#12202 - Ferrari WSC
#12201 - Nissan GTP
http://hotbodiesonline.net/parts.php...shells&lang=en
http://hbeurope.com/parts.php?type=bodyshells&lang=en

Here are two links, one to HotBodies USA and the other to HotBodies Europe and there are NO 1:12 bodies on either one of the sites.

That also might explain why Corallys "78115 Ferrari WSC (HOT)" Doesn't exists, since it probably is produced by Hot Bodies!

Parma
#10210 - Zytec
www.shopatron.com/index/137.0.6037.6038.0.0.0
One body that actually exists and is made in the 21st century!

Protoform
#1603 - Nissan P-35
#1607 - Bentley Speed 8
http://www.pro-lineracing.com/protof...road-oval.html

This is the link to Protoforms 1:12 bodies, as you can see both 1603 and 1607 does not longer exist

All 'Lightweight' and 'Heavyweight' versions of the above are included.

Please note that the following are not allowed
They are judged to not meet the criteria as laid down in the EFRA handbook.

Parma - #10125 Speed 8.
Protoform - #1608 Ascari , #1609 Speed 12 GTP, #1610 Speed 12B GTP
Trinity - #39702 Speed 9, #39701 T-310 Can-Am.
Yokomo - #SP12MS1 Mercedes MS-1, #SP12MS2 MS-2

Regarding the Yokomo bodies see comments about the Corrally bodies

The only 1:12 bodies that Protoform still manufactures is not on the list or have been removed, the "1609 Speed12 GTP".
This body together with the PARMA "10125 Speed8" are two of the most popular bodies existing in the 1:12 scale world today. The Protoform is World Champion and the PARMA is the previous World Champion but no one is allowed at EFRA races, that is strange!
The only MODERN 1:12 scale body correctly printed out in the list is the Parma Zytec but the CEFX and CRC bodies should still be in the list but the names and numbers should be corrected!

I can understand why the parma speed8 can not be in the list as of now since it was not in the list that was published in the beginning of the 1:12 scale euro season but why is the Protoform speed 12 GTP removed in the middle of the season?

All changes decided are, according to the EFRA rules, supposed to be valid from the 1st of april, but since the Euros in 1:12 is ending on the 1st the new rules will be valid from the 2nd of april. So again, why this new list in the middle of the season??

Last edited by Anders Myrberg; 01-26-2007 at 01:05 AM.
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 12:57 AM   #27
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Manīs best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cale
The frustrating bit about this new body list is that there shouldn't have been a new body list for the euros. I specifically asked about the bodylist for the euros last August/September and this is what I got for an aswer.

* * *

EFRA:
"Current situation with the 1:12 bodies are that it will not change before april next year. It's the deadline for EFRA homologisatsions."

Me:
"Thanks for the info. Is this the current list?

EFRA Approved bodies for 1:12 electric

Andys
#8217 Sauber Mercedes

Associated
#3169 - Jaguar GTP
#3171 - Corvette GTP
#3174 - Nissan GTP

Bolink
Nissan NPT90
Ferrari WSC
Buds Nissan NPT90
Nissan NPT90
#2018- Porsche 962

CEFX
#14501 DBA4 (Reynard 02S)

Corally
#78100 - Nissan GTP (Long)
#78105 - Nissan GTP (Short)
#78110 - Ferrari WSC (Hot)
#78115 - Nissan GTP (Hot)
# ??? - Sauber Mercedes

CRC Calandra
#4160 - C-60 Courage Evo-3 LMP

Hot Bodies
#12202 - Ferrari WSC
#12201 - Nissan GTP
#???? - Toyota GT1

Parma
Nissan NPT90
#10210 Zytec 04s

Protoform
Courage C-41 WSC
#1603 - Nissan P-35
#1607 - LMP Speed 8 ( Bentley )
#1609 - Speed 12 GTP ( Bentley )

Yokomo
MS-2

Updated 2005-11-11
"

EFRA:
"Yes, the 051111 list is the last one!"


* * *

Furthermore, the list above was used at the Swedish EFRA GP last December, which also was the warm up race for the euros.
But the Protoform is not BRCA approved. Naa... Canīt be that?
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 02:42 AM   #28
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,470
Send a message via ICQ to MattW
Default

Anders, some points i agree with, and at least one that is plane wrong.

The corally Mercedes is not a copy of the Yokomo shell. I understand if anything that the corally "may" be a copy of an "Andys" shell from a fair while back. The Yokomo shell came a while after, and it is different - the rear of the body goes up very high for obviously more rear traction, and there is a difference over the front wheels if i remember rightly. Haven't seen the Yomomo shell in a few years so cant remember!!
MattW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 04:04 AM   #29
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Manīs best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Matt;
No problems. As I wrote, I quoted a letter I got.
The issue, is why the list is updated in the middle of the season, before the Euros, while the rule about sinterd BL, is valid from Jan. 1:st except in 1/12, not to disturb the season ahead of the Euros. A list that seems to have plenty of questionmarks.
The biggest consequence is that all drivers who have bought and practices as well as raced the Protoform Speed 12 all winter, suddenly canīt do it ahead of this years biggest and most important race.

But I beleve EFRA is a good organization, with cleaver people, who will make it right before the Euro.
Have hope!
Have faith!
God save the Queen!
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 06:16 AM   #30
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 92
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
I would say, as a Chief Designer at Volvo Cars Corporation: Great work Dale. It pass with flying colours!
Anders Myrberg, head of engine compartment design at Volvo Cars
reynard55 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IFMAR Body list 200 mm nitro rccobra705 Nitro On-Road 8 10-13-2005 06:56 PM
DA HELLION Body List HELLION Electric On-Road 3 11-07-2004 09:14 PM
DA HELLION Body List HELLION Nitro On-Road 0 10-27-2004 08:53 PM
1/8 EFRA in Spain mskart125 Nitro On-Road 7 07-21-2004 03:26 AM
ROAR Approved Body List hicheef Nitro On-Road 2 09-10-2003 06:33 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:37 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net