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Old 09-18-2003, 05:22 AM   #76
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RBLove, Thanks for the heads up. I had heard that but is it really true ?? I didn't think Trinity actually built the heart of the motors. I thought they did some tweaking to brushes and stuff. I went ahead and changed my comment.
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Old 09-18-2003, 04:53 PM   #77
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one problem when you try and limit a racer..when you say you can only run a 10 turn motor..ok now i'll take that 10 turn and crank the timing up so high it becomes a one run motor? i hate the idea myslef..we almost do that now with 19 t oval.. mod touring car i think will go 4 cell in time..technology destroyed pan car racing can you imagine 6 cells and a 7 turn for on road with foams? WOW! out of control..like a 8 year old with his 1st ready to run nitro car! CRAZY FAST

mod touring is heading down the same path..remember HPI belted tires? remember the street weapon? those were the days? bolt what you wanted in that car and it wouldn't help you..now you have SPOOLS and sticky tires and touring cars that handle like pan cars? the new batteries the new motors everything is getting faster and faster..now corally has direct drive? were almost at the end of our limits? kinda sucks..i can think of only a few guys here in florida that can honestly run full blown touring mod and look good doing it..and we have some very good drivers in florida ..we get to race year round outside and inside..

if you make the brushless class run 5 minutes and at the same time allow a guy with a 7 single brushed motor to race with you..i see no advantage to using a brushless system? sure i will cut the comm and stick new brushess in..you will walk over and blow off your car..but in the end i still have a great shot at beating you? maybe touring will go brushless and have 15 minute mains? kinda like a gas car only quiet and not as cranky to tune? i'm not against anything new..but i realy think trinity will in the end..decide if this is a cool undrground idea or if it goes mainstream..watch what unfolds this upcoming year..maybe a MTRONIKS brushless system? first add in the back of car action telling us all that brushless is the future from trinity is the day we all are forced to go brushless..not until than..we all own 3 180.00 speedos and have a box of motors ..we couldn't even sell them on ebay...ouch! i think we lose some racers when the switch occurs?
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Old 09-19-2003, 07:05 AM   #78
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Brushless all the way.
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Old 09-19-2003, 12:20 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by UCHEATULOSE
one problem when you try and limit a racer..when you say you can only run a 10 turn motor..ok now i'll take that 10 turn and crank the timing up so high it becomes a one run motor? i hate the idea myslef..we almost do that now with 19 t oval.. mod touring car i think will go 4 cell in time..technology destroyed pan car racing can you imagine 6 cells and a 7 turn for on road with foams? WOW! out of control..like a 8 year old with his 1st ready to run nitro car! CRAZY FAST

mod touring is heading down the same path..remember HPI belted tires? remember the street weapon? those were the days? bolt what you wanted in that car and it wouldn't help you..now you have SPOOLS and sticky tires and touring cars that handle like pan cars? the new batteries the new motors everything is getting faster and faster..now corally has direct drive? were almost at the end of our limits? kinda sucks..i can think of only a few guys here in florida that can honestly run full blown touring mod and look good doing it..and we have some very good drivers in florida ..we get to race year round outside and inside..

if you make the brushless class run 5 minutes and at the same time allow a guy with a 7 single brushed motor to race with you..i see no advantage to using a brushless system? sure i will cut the comm and stick new brushess in..you will walk over and blow off your car..but in the end i still have a great shot at beating you? maybe touring will go brushless and have 15 minute mains? kinda like a gas car only quiet and not as cranky to tune? i'm not against anything new..but i realy think trinity will in the end..decide if this is a cool undrground idea or if it goes mainstream..watch what unfolds this upcoming year..maybe a MTRONIKS brushless system? first add in the back of car action telling us all that brushless is the future from trinity is the day we all are forced to go brushless..not until than..we all own 3 180.00 speedos and have a box of motors ..we couldn't even sell them on ebay...ouch! i think we lose some racers when the switch occurs?
I agree. What's gonna happen to Peak? Team Orion? Reedy?What about Puntnam? Banzai? Lightspeed? All these people will be greatly affected of the change and this doesn't mean they will not have a part of the brushless motor. Same goes for all the ESC manufactures, I think it's gonna be awhile before brushless is legal.

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Old 09-19-2003, 02:07 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by proudwinner
I agree. What's gonna happen to Peak? Team Orion? Reedy?What about Puntnam? Banzai? Lightspeed? All these people will be greatly affected of the change and this doesn't mean they will not have a part of the brushless motor. Same goes for all the ESC manufactures, I think it's gonna be awhile before brushless is legal.
Evolve or die plain and simple its not personal its business!

what if we were worried about about mech speed control makers 15years ago and we booed ESC? were would we be now!?

ESc makers have ALL the ressources to start producing BL controllers!

One company has been doing it under our noses all the time...

their name starts with the letter "N"

The rc market will not crash,trinity will not go out of business etc if bl becomes legal.
Ask anyone that made the switch to bl and ask them if they would go back to brushed mostly likely the anwser will be a firm NO!!
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Old 09-19-2003, 02:07 PM   #81
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proud winner thanks for having some understanding that what a few my think as a benifit to them is not one to others you'll put a few companies out of buisness and the choice that you have of different manufactures will fall into the hands of 1 or 2 of the industry giants, we all like the idea of not having to rebuild motors
but in all retrospect its not the savior to r/c racing. i do see the lipoly batteries making their way to r/c before the brushless plus
i am sure that the brushed motors we have we some tweeking or different compounds of brushes will have no problem using them as power source. plus if we detuned them to run those batteries it might slow the cars down i think we are going to run into the same problems we had with modified pancars! if we dont slow them down!
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Old 09-19-2003, 02:12 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedxl
proud winner thanks for having some understanding that what a few my think as a benifit to them is not one to others you'll put a few companies out of buisness and the choice that you have of different manufactures will fall into the hands of 1 or 2 of the industry giants, we all like the idea of not having to rebuild motors
but in all retrospect its not the savior to r/c racing. i do see the lipoly batteries making their way to r/c before the brushless plus
i am sure that the brushed motors we have we some tweeking or different compounds of brushes will have no problem using them as power source. plus if we detuned them to run those batteries it might slow the cars down i think we are going to run into the same problems we had with modified pancars! if we dont slow them down!
Li-poly WILL be the first nail in the brushed motor coffin!

Think of it this way no one will want to go slower then what there running today so do you honestly thing that people will accept slower brushed motor just so they could last longer when they bl at hand?
come on speedxl!
Already your making sacrifices(speed) with brushed in order to keep a decent motor lifespan!

WHY????
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Old 09-19-2003, 02:45 PM   #83
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Is there some reason you folks are worried about companies like Putnam, banzai or any other small business that is making a living on technology that even they knew would not be long term?? C'mon......get real!! I didn't hear anybody crying the blues for NiCad battery companies...yeah, you remember them!! Simple...they saw the changes coming and adjusted for it. What do you think would have happened to the guy matching batteries who decided that NMH was never going to be popular !!!!! Reedy and Trinity will probably be offering BL motors....Orion already does. I mentioned this before....these companies all know that technology WILL change. Some, like Trinity and Reedy will survive because they have a varied product line or because they can develop new technologies themselves. Other companies like Putnam may very well die off IF all they ever planned for was 1 technology. Are you guys honestly trying to plan on brushed motors being around for a long while !!!!???? You're dreaming.......look around you....electric tech is booming and much of that tech is filtering down to various activities that use it, including us!!! BL has a history already.....it does not appear that many hop ups or tweaking oppurtunities will exist at the mechanical level. If there are companies that can't adapt....they'll fade away. The Genie is already out of the bottle guys...there's no way to put it back now. Those who are already running these unimproved systems are already praising them. Like I said before....maybe the question you should be asking is " where will brushed motors continue to fit in?". BTW...anybody see that a new BL motor for Micros is available now??
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Old 09-19-2003, 03:07 PM   #84
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you guys dont seem to get it you think that its going to be accepted by everybody and of couse it wont, its not a bad idea but as long as the r/c powers at hand make all the decisions as to what we run are in power it'll be awhile before they allow it to introduced into racing fine there are a few that want it but not enough to garner an intrest by roar its like pancar guys we keep praying for a come back! aint gonna happen luckely 12 scale is comming back strong! like cheatuloose said the cost of everything else will go up tires bodys and chassis parts dont you see that they will recoupe that money on the expendable items. it'll be as expensive if not more because they are loosing the revanue of the motors the pros and cons are more in favor of the brush and as far as the slowing down they already did that with the 10 t rule and they are looking for other measures to slow down the cars which actually reduces the cost.! guys the sport is changing with technology there has been more growth in the last three years than the previous 15. guys brushless sounds and is probably great but the market is not ready for it, bottom line.
wait at least 2 to five years before its accepted by the masses.
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Old 09-19-2003, 03:22 PM   #85
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nicad battery companies? sanyo and panasonic..both companies do not rely on R/C for incom..we are a small part of sanyo and panasonics business..they could realy care less what we like..PLUS they are the same companies that invent these new technologies..

if you ask todd putnam does he think he will be sweeping floors at K mart next year ..he is going to laugh at you...putnams entire business relies on R/C..brushes, brush springs,motors...same goes for most of those guys..and i'm sorry but i like the service i get from the small companies..i like the idea that they come race with me..and i see them at all kins of races..because this is there life blood..they enjoy the hobby,like we all do. I for one would not cast a vote that would put any of these guys on welfare..i dont expect everyone to feel the same way..but i could not imagine a r/c world run by a company called HACKER? lolol that would just be way to much irony for me! and dont even mention novaks name! yuk! i think brushless will have it's place..just not on my shelf..not yet any ways...we can argue all day but none of us realy know what will happen in the future?
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Old 09-19-2003, 03:38 PM   #86
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You're taking this way out of context. Nobody attacked Putnam or any other company. Like any other hobbyist, I surely don't wish to see any company fail. Unfortunately it's a fact of life and business that some companies will fail when changes in the industry occur. If you've been in rc for awhile, I'm sure you know of companies that aren't around anymore.My reference to battery companies was only to reflect what could occur if companies were single minded enough not to give credence to new technology.
Until I can foresee the future, I'll still run brushed motors like most other drivers. But if BL is the future, I'll welcome it. Thanks for the discussion.
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Old 09-19-2003, 03:44 PM   #87
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I don't believe it will take 2 years for them to become race legal, all the main Bl units out there meat Roar legal specs. Bl's were allowed to run at the hitech parkinglot challenge a while ago and also the eduro at the tamiya track. Roar will come to the point where they have to allow them. Race times won't go up dramatically, so wear and tear won't go up dramatically. Sure batteries will become more important but they are already important and it will just take one more equation out of being fast. The only real issue is sensored or sensorless.
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Old 09-19-2003, 04:02 PM   #88
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fat doggy the tamiya race was a class that was done for promotional it wasnt open to all motors is was an enduro of multi manned teams with each team having a factory driver and they used spec chassis get forreal not not the right example to use!
you need to realize if the magazines havent pushed it like all the other products out there then there is an indication that not everybody is for it at this time. only the fw that ar th at home play type sure there are a few that race them, but not enough to make the rest notice. as far as i am concerned untill roar forces me to run brushless by making them legal i dont care! if none o us brusshed guys were here then you'd have nothing to talk about other than how shitty the speedo is almost compared to a tamiya 3 step speedo from the 80's so for now long live brushed motors. remember we are the masses and will be for awhile.
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Old 09-19-2003, 04:04 PM   #89
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Your point about us being small in the eye of Sanyo and Panasonic just prooves his point even further. They don't rely on just one technology so they continue to thrive on other things. Any company that wants to thrive will have to evolve. There have been a number of motor tuners etc that have gone out even without a major change in technology. Businesses go under from time to time. It's part of economics. I run both, brushed and brushless. I like both for different reasons. But I do think brushless is going to end up on top. I was out of the hobby when rebuildable stock motors were introduced but I bet at the first mention of them, there was all kinds of arguing if this is going to ruin racing. And now look. You mention a sealed endbell motor to most guys that were't around then and they look at you like you're crazy. Years from now it'll be the same way when you mention a comm lathe.
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Old 09-19-2003, 04:19 PM   #90
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actually when the idea of the rebuildables came out 90% were for it because it was easier to maintaine plus they took the measure to assure the motors were easy to tech against cheating so everybody said ok!
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