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Old 12-22-2006, 01:21 PM   #106
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The sales problems for most places seems to be in the Touring car market. Most if not all other RC can be bashed around in the backyard or at the local park but TCs really need a place to race. Just look at the most recent RC magazines. Maybe a small blurb about TCs and the rest is bashable offroad. It's difficult to attract people to a hobby or racetrack when they don't see any info on that type of racing and they can't really run the car anywhere but a smooth parking lot.

Videogames don't help either. I've recently gotten into RC and I've almost completely stopped playing videogames. What I'm saying is that there are so many things people can be into and not have to travel from their house at all. Couple that with the ease of purchasing online and it only makes the problem worse. You can also add Ebay and the sellers from Hong Kong that are undercutting EVERYONE'S prices and it gets even worse. These are even more problems that people have to deal with on the retail side of things and it isn't going to get better.

I don't know how to fix these problems but I do know that they are concerns as well.
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Old 12-22-2006, 03:30 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark O'Brien
Look if all I wanted to do was sell hobby stuff a Hobby Town Franchise is not a bad way to go. After all the biggest market share of rc products never hits a track. However I thought we were talking specificaly about R/C race tracks and their related hobby shops. Not to many Hobby Towns have dedicated indoor tracks. And only a few run parking lot races that I'm aware of.

My track sits in a Building I own, if I wanted to make real money off of it. I would develop the site and rent it to a coffee shop, or something similar. But I happen to enjoy this Hobby and the people who race with me. So I'll do this untill the prevailing attitude amoung the racers is like yours. Then I'll call Starbucks !
No one in my area complains about my attitude. I enjoy helping people. If you own the building, you have no excuse why you can't use your entry fee's for ads or other ways of bringing new people to your track. Your the only real negative person that keeps posting over and over. Don't like what I have to say, OH WELL! Read your post, it's all negative. MAYBE YOU HAVE THE WRONG ATTITUDE.
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Old 12-22-2006, 04:56 PM   #108
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RC Pro - Good points and well said, I've read about your series and like what I see.

Juan - Your people like you and my people like me, I guess we are cool. The only reason I responded to your posts is because you seem to be putting sole blame on the tracks for some of these problems. I merely pointed out that there are many issues not just the one you highlighted.

P.S. Every penny I get from the track and Hobby shop, goes back in to improve them both. I have another profitable business, I do as a day job to put the bacon on the table.
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Old 12-22-2006, 04:58 PM   #109
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Simple question, do you buy your tires from goodyear or a goodyear dealer, its simple, ask the manufactors to stop selling to everyone and the brother and support the dealers or distributors..............
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Old 12-22-2006, 05:04 PM   #110
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Simple question, do you buy your tires from goodyear or a goodyear dealer, its simple, ask the manufactors to stop selling to everyone and the brother and support the dealers or distributors..............

EXACTLY !!!
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:06 PM   #111
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As far as the hobbytown thing goes, I used to work for a guy who had a hobby shop for many years, and he told me the #1 thing that kept him is business was plastic model kits...cars, planes, whatever. Most tracks are not full line hobby shops. Even if they are, you gotta sell a lotta models to dedicate square footage to the track.
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Old 12-22-2006, 07:16 PM   #112
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You can't expand the hobby if you don't get more people into the novice classes. This is where both the racer and manufacturers have gone wrong.

First the manufacturers.
You guys put out an RTR kit that runs perfectly fine but with a 19T or 23T so your car don't looks so slow when bashing in the street. However when the kid wants to race at the local track, he's told that he needs to buy an additional ROAR legal stock motor for another $40. Then it is suggested that he gets an addtional battery pack for another $30. Add that to race fee and dear old Dad has already shelled out a good chunck of change.

Why can't the manufacturers include an addtional stock motor for racing. At the manufacturing level and addtional stock legal motor (doesn't have to be the best) is only marginal in cost and can justify a slight value added price increase such that when amortized over the entire run would be far less than $40.

Now the racers.
How can a beginner have a chance at novice class when they are letting people race novice class with X-Ray T2s, RDXs and MSXs with 4300 matched IB cells and Novak GTX or KO VFS-Comp and M11 or Helios? Is that really novice equipment??? There should be a rule that anybody with a spec of woven graphite anywhere running loose cells should get automatically bumped to intermediate or sportsman!

When a beginner comes to race in novice and finds that he got beat because the guy that beat him had all that equipement not to mention all the pit accessories (ie. alignment guages, cellmaster, turbo 35, motor lathe, etc...), then he feels that its impossible for him to even try to be competitive. Not only that, but Dad is already saying NO! I'm not cashing in your college fund just so you can win at novice class at your local track. So there goes another beginner that would have entered the hobby and so on and so on....

My 2 cents.
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Old 12-22-2006, 07:52 PM   #113
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Quote:
How can a beginner have a chance at novice class when they are letting people race novice class with X-Ray T2s, RDXs and MSXs with 4300 matched IB cells and Novak GTX or KO VFS-Comp and M11 or Helios? Is that really novice equipment???
A NEWBIE/ROOKIE/NOVICE racer who has a T2 or a TC3 or even an old HPI Pro2, is STILL A Rookie/Novice driver. Treat them as such. Don't have a OVER technical track set up if you have or want ROOKIES to be able to run. Have people watching them, to help them with their car set up and driving style...have somebody drive their car and show them Radio trim set up and other basic tuning tips. Also, run the rookie/novice classes shorter races...no need to have them destroy their car for 5+ minutes.

Quote:
First the manufacturers.
You guys put out an RTR kit that runs perfectly fine but with a 19T or 23T so your car don't looks so slow when bashing in the street. However when the kid wants to race at the local track, he's told that he needs to buy an additional ROAR legal stock motor for another $40. Then it is suggested that he gets an addtional battery pack for another $30. Add that to race fee and dear old Dad has already shelled out a good chunck of change.
AGREED 100% on the RTR cars and the motor they come with. Trying to explain to a 9 yr. olds MOTHER that the motor that comes STOCK w/their NEW $300.00+ toy is NOT a STOCK motor and not LEGAL for competition...and their response is..."But, it's the motor it came STOCK with...I need to spend MORE money?"

In our oval racing series we have for the past 6 years offered ROOKIE/NOVICE entries for 1/2 price at our travelling series, although a "TRAVELLING SERIES" is no place for a ROOKIE to the sport...they need to get their start at the local club track.
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Old 12-22-2006, 08:25 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YR4Dude
You can't expand the hobby if you don't get more people into the novice classes. This is where both the racer and manufacturers have gone wrong.
=---AMEN BROTHER---=

In the good ole' days of RC in the late 80's early 90's novice was one of the biggest classes..Maybe a dozen or more a club night win 1st place 3 times and you were kicked out


Quote:
Now the racers.
How can a beginner have a chance at novice class when they are letting people race novice class with X-Ray T2s, RDXs and MSXs with 4300 matched IB cells and Novak GTX or KO VFS-Comp and M11 or Helios? Is that really novice equipment??? There should be a rule that anybody with a spec of woven graphite anywhere running loose cells should get automatically bumped to intermediate or sportsman!
If you cant drive, then you cant drive....doesnt matter what you are driving...but I see your point. In SCCA (thats real full size club racing for all you) if you show up with a modded car you atomatically get booted up in class. The idea is to keep it competitive (or fun) and also for saftey

My major gripe since I came back to the hobby (I quit the first time in 1998) is after novice you are in limbo as far as classes go. I have seen many novices show up with their bashers, they get decent, then they never come back after their first few stock class races. I myself almost quit again because I got so damn frustrated with all the "pro" and super hardcore vetran drivers smoking everyone in the stock class by 3 or more laps a race. Its just no fun driving your best race of the day and you are STILL 3-4 laps off pace

I want more classes to help the progression, I want a 4-cell stock class, but I want it for people fresh out of novice, if you want to go fast with a stock race the vets/pros in a 6-cell stock

It would also give the newbies time to collect the proper equipment to be competitive. As a novice goes from a 300$ RTR kit it would be a transition, while they purchase better batteries/charger/lathe tires etc etc. Instead of the current situation when right out of the gate you go from a 300$ RTR car to a 1000$+ investment in equipment to stay competitive
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Old 12-22-2006, 08:33 PM   #115
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I think 4-cell is the PERFECT solution for novice-class racing. THAT'S who the current technology has gotten WAY too fast for. It's painful to watch, and frustrating for the novice, when they're bashing the living crap out of their cars lap after lap. And every one of them is convinced they'd have won if they just had a bit more power. Save them from themselves, limit Novice to 4-cells. Help 'em solder a bar or a lead between the fourth and fifth cells, then when they "move up" they've got 6-cell packs ready to go.

As far as moving the perenial Stock class sharks on, we instituted a 19-turn class and pretty much all the fast guys jumped on that and have left the Stock class for the newer or plain slower racers to succeed in.

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Old 12-22-2006, 10:05 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik
I think 4-cell is the PERFECT solution for novice-class racing. THAT'S who the current technology has gotten WAY too fast for. It's painful to watch, and frustrating for the novice, when they're bashing the living crap out of their cars lap after lap. And every one of them is convinced they'd have won if they just had a bit more power. Save them from themselves, limit Novice to 4-cells. Help 'em solder a bar or a lead between the fourth and fifth cells, then when they "move up" they've got 6-cell packs ready to go.

As far as moving the perenial Stock class sharks on, we instituted a 19-turn class and pretty much all the fast guys jumped on that and have left the Stock class for the newer or plain slower racers to succeed in.

Scottrik
I think 15 to 20 dollar stick packs will work very well for the rookie class. With maybe a brushless 13.5 motor. No maintenece, just lots of track time and fun. Also much cheaper in the long run. At my local tracks here in norcal, 13.5 is legal to race in the stock classes. And the 4300 is legal in the 19turn class. They buy a motor and speedo once and race for a long time never thinking about tuning motors, just developing driving and set-up skills. A spintec or trinity type discharger will keep their batteries in good shape. When their good enough to move to sportsman, they won't have to worry about upgrading their gear.
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Old 12-22-2006, 10:43 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Aveytia
I think 15 to 20 dollar stick packs will work very well for the rookie class. With maybe a brushless 13.5 motor. No maintenece, just lots of track time and fun. Also much cheaper in the long run. At my local tracks here in norcal, 13.5 is legal to race in the stock classes. And the 4300 is legal in the 19turn class. They buy a motor and speedo once and race for a long time never thinking about tuning motors, just developing driving and set-up skills. A spintec or trinity type discharger will keep their batteries in good shape. When their good enough to move to sportsman, they won't have to worry about upgrading their gear.
These are better alternatives than going to 4-cell. Then they are running 4-cell on a chassis designed for 6 which throws setup off and then they have to change it all again when they move up a class. A lower mah limit on a cheap stick pack works just as well without them having to have special battery packs for novice that don't fit right and couldn't be used in another RC basher they might have at home. Keep it simple 6-cell for everyone is FINE.
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Old 12-22-2006, 10:57 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
These are better alternatives than going to 4-cell. Then they are running 4-cell on a chassis designed for 6 which throws setup off and then they have to change it all again when they move up a class. A lower mah limit on a cheap stick pack works just as well without them having to have special battery packs for novice that don't fit right and couldn't be used in another RC basher they might have at home. Keep it simple 6-cell for everyone is FINE.

Ahhh Grasshopper...that's why it pays to read entire posts with open mind...THEN comment.

In my proposal they've GOT a six cell pack in their car designed for six cells...they're only using four of them while they're learning to DRIVE the stinkin' car. I've watched it happen time and again, you help them get the car properly aligned and set-up, they then hit four or five (or more) barriers in the first lap alone...so much for any meaningful set-up, to say nothing of countless broken parts. They continue to bash into things and near orbital speeds until the car breaks. They get frustrated because they can't finish a heat (much less compete with themselves in the NOVICE class) without bankrupting themselves.

Bob Stormer showed up with a kid from his village. Bob and Randon (Bob's son) took set this kid up with an X-ray tourer and put did JUST what I suggested...tapped the 6-cell pack between cells four and five to make it, effectively, a 4-cell pack. The kid did great, had fun, finished EIGHT minute heats, and I don't think he broke anything. Track time is what helps a newbie learn to drive, and broken cars mean reduced track time. Period.

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Old 12-23-2006, 12:14 AM   #119
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I like the convenience of mail order. Being able to order exactly what I want, and knowing when it will be there, and having some control to rush it there if I really want. My track is far away, so ordering things through them would require me to wait until the next club race (hopefully) for it to show up, which means I'd have to wait another week before I could try it out. Having stuff sent to my home means I can get it several days before the next club race, and try it out sooner. I don't really care about a few bucks saved here or there, it's all about convenience to me.

So, I try to find other ways to help my club. I did a bunch of programming and web design to build them a very nice custom site (with some awesome graphics help from another racer.) All that custom code would cost them a mint otherwise, but I did it for free. If they charged twice as much for racing, I'd gladly pay it. If they had a membership that I could pay dues to get some kind of special treatment, I'd happily pay that, too. I absolutely will support my track as best I can, but I don't want to give up the convenience of having things delivered to me on my agenda. I also make a point to buy as many consumables (bodies, traction compound, motor spray, etc) from the local track as well, since I don't need those things in any hurry, usually.

If my track were closer, it wouldn't matter as much, but even then, I'd still prefer to handle my own ordering given the choice. Since I only make it out once a week, waiting a whole week (or more, if I miss a night) to complete my latest loot cycle would be tedious to the point of madness.
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Old 12-23-2006, 01:54 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik
As far as moving the perenial Stock class sharks on, we instituted a 19-turn class and pretty much all the fast guys jumped on that and have left the Stock class for the newer or plain slower racers to succeed in.

Scottrik
And the irony of that, as it pertains to our group is now the same guys that weren't showing up regularly for rookie, are now regularly NOT showing up for stock. Thereby pushing all the dedicated club members into one massive class of modified racing. Idea was good on the surface.

I'm willing to loan all our rookie racers whatever they need to run 4 cell. It needs to happen, and those guys will have a lot more fun and closer racing. 1-2 lap seperation, not 8 or more.
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