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Old 12-21-2006, 06:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSmooth
Time to wrap-up all these high profile issues into one, nice, ugly, thread.

4/5/6cells? Paid drivers in stock? Battery approvals? ROAR? Nowhere to race? Lack of interest?

Guess what....you're all to blame. The racers, promoters, manufacturers, sanctioning bodies...everyone. You're all in this together, and simply drive the track owners, hobby shops, and casual racers out of the hobby.

Racers: Want everything for free, and don't want to work for any of it. They also want their own specialized class where they can dominate. They want to show up at a track, pay as little as possible for entry and do as little as possible to help the race program. You guys can't even get to your turn marshalling positions on time. How long have you been doing this? Yes, this even includes MYSELF.

Promoters: Contibutes to the downfall of organized sanctioning bodies by using their rules, but changing whatever fits their need. Rather than making an attemp to unify all racing, they are looking for the big, personal payday. Try to pass it off as "just giving the racers what they want."

Manufacturers: Paying drivers in the lower classes for performance. This includes bonuses, free entry, free equipment, and free travel. You are also to blame for continually putting up with the childish behavior of some of your drivers. One company kicks them out, and you're all fallling over each other to sign him up.

Sanctioning Bodies: You're in this too. Another attempt at being pro-active and now listening to the membership? Heard that one before. Same garbage that was going on 10 years ago. Time to start providing results or you'll simply lose more and more people to the aforementioned promoters.

Yes, I know this is going to irritate a whole lot of people. I really don't care. I've mentioned in another thread that there's just too many talkers and not enough do-ers. Anyone that this offends...too bad.

The do-ers are the track owners, hobby shops, and volunteers that have to put up with all of OUR crap...eventually reaching that breaking point (or running out of money) and leaving. These people give of themselves and put forth the effort, you have my utmost respect.

As for the rest of you, congratulations. You reap what you sow.
MCSmooth, you make a comment that it's everyone's fault. Bull $hitt. It Roar , track owners and the people responsable for running the racing in our local areas. Don't say that the tracks are just doing what the racers want, to make everyone happy. They're the race directors. It's up to them what we race.
I started a thread before about the same issue's your talking about. Roar and 99% of the track owners and hobby shops that promote R/C racing have no game plan on how to build a solid racing program. None of them run their racing program like a business. Instead run it like their embarrassed to let people know about their program. Tracks, Manufactures, and all involved in rc racing are to cheap to advertise to the public. (I'm not talking about our rc related magazines that the general public will never hear about. The crap everyone is complaining about should have been addressed years ago.
Why do you think crappy fast food resturants do so well. It's not because of the food. They didn't start out as a multi billion dollar company. But, had a long term game plan where thay wanted to go. It doesn't matter what McDonalds you walk into. The food , customer service, and buildings all look the same.
Roar should start from the ground up with a new solid game plan to grow r/c to a profitable sport. I say roar because thats what most tracks need to keep the doors open for business. But, all manufactures will need to be involved. Give the racers something to strive for.
Roar should have a business plan for tracks that want to carry their insurance. To garuntee tracks are being run the proper way. The new system should have an advertising plan, a plan for guest that come to the track for the first time all the way up to the pro level racers. Every track should be run the same.

I don't care what what you people think. The reality is there's no structre for racing. And for any kind of real change it has to start from the top all the way down to the track owners.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:19 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer
And you point is????????????????????????????

Lets see your business plan?
Your goals?
Rules?
Guidelines?
How will you promote your sanctioning body?

McSmooth nailed it....
Point is, every month I read a bitch post about how horrible ROAR is, how they cator to money interest, how pro's act like a bunch of money grubbing kids, and all I see is more bitching, if you all dont like it so much then why not start your own.

You could also spend effort and try to change what you have with ROAR (I say what you have since I myself am not an active participent) with only 600 people voting it wouldn't be hard to vote in someone whom could "do something"

I myself only feel ROAR is a part of the symptom, the real problem bottom line is a lack of racers. Tracks dont go out of business because the rules arent written correctly, they go out of business because they have too little cashflow.

Ive just had it with all the damn bitching, stop bitching and go tell your best friend/work buddy/ son/ daughter/ wife how much fun you had because you were at the track. Maybe then you can get a bigger novice class going.

I myself am actually wanting to do something about this, I am taking all my "obsolete" equipment and setting up anouther car to bring with me to the track....I will pay race dues/wrench time for anyone new who wants to race RC. I have a work buddy and my wife whom are going to take me up on the offer. If every year we all brought one new person to the track, how big would the novice class get?

After that we can work on the rules a bit. The only rule I really have a problem with is stop making the "fresh out of novice driver" race the "pro" stock drivers. No other form racing has such a huge skill gap as the jump from novice to stock. SCCA classes are divided into all sorts of skill levels to keep racing competitive, and to keep club members of all types involved, maybe we can take a page from them...now Im rambling...maybe I shouldnt have given up full size racing to race RC again....
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:23 PM   #33
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Do you realize you just proved McSmooth's point? You just blamed everybody but yourself.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSmooth
Time to wrap-up all these high profile issues into one, nice, ugly, thread.

4/5/6cells? Paid drivers in stock? Battery approvals? ROAR? Nowhere to race? Lack of interest?

Guess what....you're all to blame. The racers, promoters, manufacturers, sanctioning bodies...everyone. You're all in this together, and simply drive the track owners, hobby shops, and casual racers out of the hobby.

Racers: Want everything for free, and don't want to work for any of it. They also want their own specialized class where they can dominate. They want to show up at a track, pay as little as possible for entry and do as little as possible to help the race program. You guys can't even get to your turn marshalling positions on time. How long have you been doing this? Yes, this even includes MYSELF.

Promoters: Contibutes to the downfall of organized sanctioning bodies by using their rules, but changing whatever fits their need. Rather than making an attemp to unify all racing, they are looking for the big, personal payday. Try to pass it off as "just giving the racers what they want."

Manufacturers: Paying drivers in the lower classes for performance. This includes bonuses, free entry, free equipment, and free travel. You are also to blame for continually putting up with the childish behavior of some of your drivers. One company kicks them out, and you're all fallling over each other to sign him up.

Sanctioning Bodies: You're in this too. Another attempt at being pro-active and now listening to the membership? Heard that one before. Same garbage that was going on 10 years ago. Time to start providing results or you'll simply lose more and more people to the aforementioned promoters.

Yes, I know this is going to irritate a whole lot of people. I really don't care. I've mentioned in another thread that there's just too many talkers and not enough do-ers. Anyone that this offends...too bad.

The do-ers are the track owners, hobby shops, and volunteers that have to put up with all of OUR crap...eventually reaching that breaking point (or running out of money) and leaving. These people give of themselves and put forth the effort, you have my utmost respect.

As for the rest of you, congratulations. You reap what you sow.

AMEN!
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:37 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
Do you realize you just proved McSmooth's point? You just blamed everybody but yourself.
Quote:
Racers: Want everything for free, and don't want to work for any of it. They also want their own specialized class where they can dominate. They want to show up at a track, pay as little as possible for entry and do as little as possible to help the race program. You guys can't even get to your turn marshalling positions on time. How long have you been doing this? Yes, this even includes MYSELF.
Please explain how I fall into this catagory? Granted I did ask for another class, but not so I "dominate" but to keep frustration down for beginers.

Im not arguing he is right or wrong...in fact I share his frustration I think he is right 100%. These kinds of posts are good to stir up the blood. I am just saying I see a lot of bitching, and no action
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:47 PM   #36
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Just a little info on the advertising thing:

I checked into reasonable forms of local advertising and one that I thought would be great would be a billboard next to the freeway that's only 1 1/2 miles from out track - It cost between $1,500.00 (crap location) to $3,500.00 PER MONTH FOR A 6 MONTH DEAL!!! Tough to advertise in any mainstream form when the $$ amounts are way out of reach for most hobby shops.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:54 PM   #37
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There are some good deals on advertising in the local markets but it's still a nice chunk of money for a hobby shop. I paid over $5,000 for TV and radio ads that ran 2 weeks for our Nitro Offroad Finals this year.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:00 PM   #38
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see! Josh Cyrul understands!
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:00 PM   #39
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I donít believe my eyes Juan. Have you run a track or shop? Been responsible for rent, utilities, and all that wonderful stuff?

I am closing my doors at Rain City after 7 years. Run it like a business? What have I been doing? Every area and every population is different. The income levels, the ownerís time available to work, the rent is all over the place, and so forth.
So, I have a carpet track and Roar decides on what I should do and that I should spend $$$ a month to advertise. .
So, should I pay my utilities or my credit cards?
You make no sense in the real world of track owners. Our profit margin is about 30-40% depending on source and volume. Most regular businesses have a 60-100% or more mark up.
You know, like what they put on the kit boxes? That no one would dare to sell for. And no one would buy.

I have had some VERY good years and could always make my bills. Itís changed though.
ďDon't say that the tracks are just doing what the racers want, to make everyone happy. They're the race directors. It's up to them what we race.Ē Hmmm, not sure thatís a good idea.
ďOK RACERS! Now you have to run mod, on foam, and I have put in some great big blocks of concrete and wooden boards.Ē
I donít think thatís what you meant, but every track has to try to figure out what works, and what will continue to work and keep racers happy and coming back. The years Iíve been doing this, weíve done almost all the different classes out there. People like a change and so we would try something different. I WANT the racers to be happy. They are our friends and our RC family.

I do totally agree with McSmooth AMEN, AMEN, AMEN.
Amazing amounts Josh. But we could afford it if we did our business right. haha

Those who have been around understand the BIG races and how ROAR plays a part. Thank you Rick for helping them to understand.

As Mark said, we have a sanctioning body. And it is trying to work. It's had some rough years and sounds like they are on the right track. So get to your regional director or anyone on the excomm and send some messages. Volunteer to help. Vote. Have an idea? Let them know and that you are willing to take the time to check into it and follow it thru.

I don't feel the RC life is a mess. Almost everyone who posts here cares for RC and wants to see it continue. Everyone has to know the problems and changes coming in order to help with solutions. There is some valuable info on RCtech and some great people who help others out a lot.
Discussion is good. And the passion is there.

So, support your track, give help to newbies, volunteer to work on tracks and make racing happen. It's a blast.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:03 PM   #40
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Naw you all have it wrong...

It's all my fault. Yup I did it. I caused it and can not be stopped.
The whole world of competative R/C racing will come to a complete end, why? ME....Thats right Me...

Have a nice day.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:12 PM   #41
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A lot of energy in this thread

Things I learned playing with my big boy toys this year.

Bring someone to the track and help them race. Bring the kids sometimes.
Join a club. Or two, or maybe three, if you're blessed that way like we are.
Help fix up a track in your local area. Or a couple, one summer, one winter.
Work and play nice with others. Remember, little people are watching you.
It's fun to trade a little paint sometimes, so have a class or two for that.
Thank the people that put on races.
Get involved and help put on events sometimes.
Every once in a while, be one of the last to leave and help clean up.
Thank the people that keep things going year after year. Help them out.
Offer classes at varying ability levels, novice, average and pro, old and young.
A healthy racing programme usually has a cross section of interests.
Don't get so serious at races that you steal the joy from everyone else.
Give a little room to those who make the rules. Somebody has to do it.
Don't take it too seriously... unless that's your goal, then great, go for it !
It's ok to try your best to be #1, just remember humility comes before honor.
Remember, most racers are passionate by nature, so expect some conflict.
If you never joke on the driver's stand, maybe you need a different hobby.
Don't sacrifice all your other more important responsibilities for little toy cars.
If you can keep a level head while everyone else is panicking, you'll do fine.
On the other hand, they might know something you don't, better look up !!!

Merry Christmas. I'm going on vacation too. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I plan to enjoy mine.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:14 PM   #42
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Oh that's right! I think I did hear that Mr. Shookie! Thank you for reminding us....
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:54 PM   #43
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Well posted Mike and 100% true!!!!

I think it needs to start with the manufactures, but unfortunately we are to busy trying to put each other out of business
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:34 PM   #44
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If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem. We had our 1/8 scale track close down here(AZ) for many of the same reasons being said, so a hand full of RACERS built a track for the RACERS by the RACERS with no outside money from anyone. And now after the track only being opened for three weeks we will be hosting the biggest nitro offroad race in the country in february! It can be done, but only if your part of the solution.
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:56 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
I donít believe my eyes Juan. Have you run a track or shop? Been responsible for rent, utilities, and all that wonderful stuff?

I am closing my doors at Rain City after 7 years. Run it like a business? What have I been doing? Every area and every population is different. The income levels, the ownerís time available to work, the rent is all over the place, and so forth.
So, I have a carpet track and Roar decides on what I should do and that I should spend $$$ a month to advertise. .
So, should I pay my utilities or my credit cards?
You make no sense in the real world of track owners. Our profit margin is about 30-40% depending on source and volume. Most regular businesses have a 60-100% or more mark up.
You know, like what they put on the kit boxes? That no one would dare to sell for. And no one would buy.

I have had some VERY good years and could always make my bills. Itís changed though.
ďDon't say that the tracks are just doing what the racers want, to make everyone happy. They're the race directors. It's up to them what we race.Ē Hmmm, not sure thatís a good idea.
ďOK RACERS! Now you have to run mod, on foam, and I have put in some great big blocks of concrete and wooden boards.Ē
I donít think thatís what you meant, but every track has to try to figure out what works, and what will continue to work and keep racers happy and coming back. The years Iíve been doing this, weíve done almost all the different classes out there. People like a change and so we would try something different. I WANT the racers to be happy. They are our friends and our RC family.

I do totally agree with McSmooth AMEN, AMEN, AMEN.
Amazing amounts Josh. But we could afford it if we did our business right. haha

Those who have been around understand the BIG races and how ROAR plays a part. Thank you Rick for helping them to understand.

As Mark said, we have a sanctioning body. And it is trying to work. It's had some rough years and sounds like they are on the right track. So get to your regional director or anyone on the excomm and send some messages. Volunteer to help. Vote. Have an idea? Let them know and that you are willing to take the time to check into it and follow it thru.

I don't feel the RC life is a mess. Almost everyone who posts here cares for RC and wants to see it continue. Everyone has to know the problems and changes coming in order to help with solutions. There is some valuable info on RCtech and some great people who help others out a lot.
Discussion is good. And the passion is there.

So, support your track, give help to newbies, volunteer to work on tracks and make racing happen. It's a blast.
I haven't run my own track or shop. But, I have run my business for almost 7 yrs. And yes sometimes it's diffucult to do so. But, my point was this. Every track owner needs racers to race at their track to succeed. But, you can't count on racers to bring new in faces. And when things are going good, try and take advantage of it. And try to take it to the next level. Don't get content on where your at, but push even harder. I'm sorry to here that your closing your doors. But, this is all the more reason why a real system needs to be put in place.
Racenut123 no freaking kidding, advertising cost money. None of the norcal tracks have done much in changing the way we grow the sport/hobby in our area. Sure, you built a top notch facility, but your stores potential may never reach it's full potential if you continue run it the way it's been run regarding racing. It's just funny to me, that the most common comment I hear from track owners is, " where are all the racers at? / I don't know what to do". Not saying your particular store is asking those questions, but I know you guys are striving to become the premier racing venue in norcal. I know your the only track in norcal that is working towards bringing in new racers. Not just trying to keep the the old racers. Stick to a consistent advertising plan and work it. I'm not posting here to argue or upset anyone, but things can been done alot more efficiently. Where you as track owners could make a plan. I'm just going to quite talking cause it seems like you guys have more reasons not to advertise than my kids do for doing their chores. You can't expect to open a track and everyone quite going to the one they have raced at for years to go to yours. Quite fighting for the old racers and bring in new ones. (this quote was written in general, not at anyone inparticular)
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