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Old 10-20-2004, 01:18 AM   #10171
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Shooky,

I agree with what you wrote about the gears changing the motor position and hence the balance of the car... my skepticism was indeed coming from a polar moment / roll center confusion. Thanks for this adult answer anyway, you don't see that often people trying to explain things cold-headedly when they're contradicted.

today is ... track day (or shall I say afternoon)... I will experiment with RC and swaybars this afternoon, and pops' setup (thanks btw).

Later,
Paul
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Old 10-20-2004, 03:40 AM   #10172
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Howard
Handling and acceleration wise they're pretty even but the SD is tons easier to work on and it has more suspension adjustments.
I think I'd sum it up exactly the same way.

Of course we'll have to see what the TC4 is like.
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Old 10-20-2004, 05:32 AM   #10173
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SD - TC3 comparison.

Out of the box, my TC3 seemed more competitive for carpet racing. It was also far more durable. I'm not one for breaking cars but my SD was undeniably more fragile compared to the TC3.

The SD's design makes it much nicer to work on, easier to maintain AND you can change the spur really quickly too - unusual on most other shaft driven cars. I prefer the SD's metric screws also.

Once the setup is sorted, I reckon the SD produces slightly more grip and is easier to drive fast - but others may disagree. I suppose that depends on many variable factors, including personal preferance.

Both are great cars - but the SD wins hands down on style!
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:24 AM   #10174
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One thing I hated about the TC3 was the steering rack. It always seemed to bind up. I have been driving the SD for about 8 months and as far a been fragile I have yet to have a problem. The diff is the only weak part on this car. Once you learn how to build those, its nothing but a walk in the park.
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:28 AM   #10175
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There are 2 things about the TC3 that annoy me... For one, the diffs are a pain to get apart and the biggers one is... They use the C Hub camber link ballstud as a kingpin... It constantly strips out the steering knuckle....
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:39 AM   #10176
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Quote:
Originally posted by shooky
Well here is how it works for ME. By changing the gear ratio, you can use smaller spur gears by which you can move the motor in towards the center line of the car, by which it make the roll center better, by which makes MY car handles better for ME. These assesments are what is working for me. I actually bought it, tried it, enjoy it and will keep it. I am a person who will only give advise or my opinion on things I have either seen or have tried myself. I am not bashing anyone, but tired of people always bashing things that they haven't tried themselves. I happen to like the Product D gears, not only does it help roll center but the gears are aluminum which last longer than the plastic ones. Also you will have to shim the diffs inward so as not to have a binding issue. Hope this helps you make a informed judgement.
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Err, Roll Centre has nothing to do with that, it only depends on the suspension geometry, which you haven't changed by moving the motor closer to the shaft.

By the way, i suggest you have a look at the L/R weight balance of your car, it is not without reason that Masami uses a very big spur gear, it's to counter balance the weight of the pack.

Last edited by Cobra81li200; 10-20-2004 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:42 AM   #10177
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Quote:
Originally posted by ritchie
so then, when i put spacers under the hinge pin mounts am i raising or lowering my roll center, if i change nothing else.
It will definately raise your roll centre because by doing so, you just change the angle that the wishbones makes with the ground (you also change the bump steer so be careful with that).
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:43 AM   #10178
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Heheheh, it's funny how we're all different and experience different issues. I've never had a diff problem with my SD.

Regards the TC3, my steering was always silky smooth, but it required cleaning after every run. I never broke/stripped a single knuckle, even after 2 seasons. Infact the only part that broke in that time was a rear shock tower - but not from a crash - from a Marshall treading on my car

Taking the TC3 apart was a pain, but generally required little maintenance anyway.

The SD is a real pleasure to maintain and I'm pleased to say that since the start of the winter season, I have attended 5 race meetings and the SD hasn't broken once - mainly due to the upgraded/revised parts and materials. As it is now, my SD is quicker than my TC3. But so it should be - I spent enough money on it!!
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:10 AM   #10179
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I don't know if I'm faster with the TC3 vs the SD yet... The Tc3 has a current advantage, I'm running a known setup.... I just recently switched the SD from SSG to CGM.... Every weekend I'm out just working on setup's.... I'm not even going to race until I'm entirely happy with the handling....
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:32 AM   #10180
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Most of my 'practice' when I first had the SD was done entering the district and regional races. I was basically throwing my car in at the deepend racing against better drivers who already had cars they were familiar with. Considering the teething problems, I still achieved reasonable results and the car kept getting better.

If I'd been sensible like you and ironed out the problems first, I would have ended up running the TC3 for another season instead. But I just couldn't make myself do it....

Now the car is good - results so far have proved that it's in with a much better chance this year!

I just need to beat that darned Losi XXXs........
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:36 AM   #10181
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Please don't ever accuse me of being sensable again... Hehehehe....

I feel faster with the Yok but others are telling me I Look faster with the TC3.... I haven't yet run any real timed laps so I really have no clue... There's only 1 other person besides me running the SD, it's hard to share setup secrets...
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:56 AM   #10182
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I would completly recommend the Orion Pro LCS it has made the difference in how I set my car up. I can go to un used section of parking lot, make out some chalk lines, set up my LCS and perceed to doing laps. That way I can see actual results do to adjustments by checking if my lap times are being consistant. Also I recommend if you are going to do this to have three batteries that are the same.....It does make that much difference.
I have and use the opion system and it has helped me shave those valuable seconds off my lap times. Check ebay they sell them cheap there.
Hope this helps.
Oh yea my local track doesn't have a transponder system yet.
If your does ask to use it. Same prinicapals.


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Old 10-20-2004, 09:01 AM   #10183
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Our new system is whacky.... There's only 1 person who knows how to use it.... I haven't gone down for races yet this season, only practice... Going to drag the wife and a stopwatch this weekend....
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Old 10-20-2004, 09:22 AM   #10184
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That Orion system sounds good for making the most out of un-timed practice sessions.

I'm lucky that the places I race use AMB systems. Improvements of course can be guaged by simply seeing if the lap times are improving. Most times I guage whether my car is actually any good or not by seeing how it stacks up against the opposition. If I get my laptimes within .3 of a second of this certain driver, I know I'm on the pace. One day, he'll be chasing my times!!

BTW - I'll promise never to call anyone here sensible again!
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Old 10-20-2004, 11:48 AM   #10185
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Quote:
Originally posted by Horatio

BTW - I'll promise never to call anyone here sensible again!
LOL
I am sensible to ....well Me.

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