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Old 11-16-2003, 05:12 PM   #4636
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Sosidge,

Chris Tosolini agreed with me. There's also a booklet (XXX something) sold everywhere in UK, I checked and they say exactly the same as me. ALL the engineers I've talked with always agreed with me.

I've been talking with top of the line drivers, like Ben Cosgrove, and Benoit Thomaes (both X-Ray factory drivers) and they agreed with me.

So why don't you try what I told you and see what happens ?

I believe that if using softer springs increased the rear grip for you, it is because you were using too stiff springs (I've already explained you what's the effect of too stiff springs).

As for torque steer, I notice it when my setup is not good. I was running on wooden floor yesterday and did not have any problem. For me the car is just amazing, set 4th qualifying time with a tyre handicap as mine were new, and they work best when nearly completely used (schum rally).
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Old 11-16-2003, 07:32 PM   #4637
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Quote:
Originally Posted By Kilruf
I don't know what the big deal is with torque steer. It's the common trait with all shaft cars. I've had it with the TC3... the Evo3.. and even my friends R2.... And I have it with my SD. It's just more noticable in Mod than Stock. Just learn to throttle up correctly instead of "gagging it." If it's that much of a pet peeve... switch to a belted car.. hehe... But seriously, I hardly notice torque steer anymore. Alot of it is throttle control and stock class...
Kilruf, I to have driven the TC3 and I currently own a Surikarn EVO3 and neither of them have the level of torque steer that the SD has. I was just simply asking how to remedy the problem, not sarcastic remarks. The problem isn't as noticeable when running stock, but when running mod on low bite parking lots, it's pretty evident. I spoke with Chris Tosolini today and he agreed that the problem is compounded in mod with the SD and that you have to spend a little more time setting the car up for mod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra81li200
I believe that if using softer springs increased the rear grip for you, it is because you were using too stiff springs (I've already explained you what's the effect of too stiff springs).
Cobra - I really appreciate your feedback and it wasn't my intention to start up a setup war on this thread, I just had some legitimate concerns with the car and I thought some of the knowledgeable people like yourself could offer some assistance. I will apply some of your suggestions as well as the others I have received.
I also agree that if your springs are to stiff, going to a softer spring will generate more rear traction. I don't think I have that problem. I'm currently using the Yellow RS springs w/40 wt oil on both ends of the car.



Quote:
Originally Posted By sosidge
Cobra currently believes stiffer settings increase grip. I, and most other people, disagree.

I've found that a softer rear setting will actually decrease the torque steer effect, the back end gets better traction, and stops the car's back end sliding all over when you put the power down.

I'm also having big torque steer problems at the moment, although they have been hardly noticeable until recently - I run on slippy surfaces all the time. A good tweak setting can help, either through adjustment of the shock collars on the bench to get even tweak, or by messing around with the shock collars on the track. I'm going over the car with a fine comb before the next meeting, searching for a damaged or worn part.
Sosidge - thanks for your feedback. After speaking with Chris Tosolini earlier, I realize I need to invest a little more time in my mod setup. As a matter of fact, Chris will be stopping by the track tomorrow to assist me with my setup. I'll be sure to post his suggestions tomorrow and let you guys no how the car works after his help.

I really do think the SD is a great car and has tremendous potential, but as I was stating earlier I was getting a little frustated. Again thanks for everyones help.
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:00 PM   #4638
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Default Hello everybody....

well i just got from Tahoe and actually made some good money at the casinos this time....so i'm making the jump from the XXX-S to the Yok SD with tons of Rayspeed hop-ups...just wanted to say hello to everybody....
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:10 PM   #4639
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Quote:
Originally posted by KilRuf
I don't know what the big deal is with torque steer. It's the common trait with all shaft cars. I've had it with the TC3... the Evo3.. and even my friends R2.... And I have it with my SD. It's just more noticable in Mod than Stock. Just learn to throttle up correctly instead of "gagging it." If it's that much of a pet peeve... switch to a belted car.. hehe... But seriously, I hardly notice torque steer anymore. Alot of it is throttle control and stock class...

So any word yet on the release of the tub version? Looking for a 2nd car...... again.... hehe...
I kinda gotta agree, I have always felt a trait of torque steer in my shaft cars, but it had never affected my driving... Possibly just more practice with the car would work better than anything else, throttle control is everything.
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:11 PM   #4640
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Default Re: Hello everybody....

Quote:
Originally posted by tricklosi
well i just got from Tahoe and actually made some good money at the casinos this time....so i'm making the jump from the XXX-S to the Yok SD with tons of Rayspeed hop-ups...just wanted to say hello to everybody....
What RS hopups did you pick up?
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:15 PM   #4641
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Sorry, I didn't mean it if you took it as bad... that's why I use faces... Just alittle humor... But I was just suggesting that throttle control can also help too. If your ESC is adjustable, you can program it with a higher freq for smoother response or adjust the torque curve... or even throttle curve on the radio. Especially if you are racing on a slick track. I ran Mod yesterday with my new 10x1 Orion Revolution motor. I didn't notice any torque steer with my SD. But then again, I was trying to be smooth on the throttle. Anyways, just tryin to offer other ways to "deal" with it....
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:16 PM   #4642
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well just the ultimate conversion kit and Team Suzuki alum front steering blocks and rear hubs. also just ordered the front oneway too.....i'm pretty excited..i feel kinda bad for my Losi now...looks like it going into retirement soon....
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:21 PM   #4643
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One other note, I hope you are not racing a oneway on a slick track... Diff would do you best. Tighten up the front as much as you can.
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:22 PM   #4644
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Quote:
Originally Posted By KilRuf
Sorry, I didn't mean it if you took it as bad... that's why I use faces... Just alittle humor... But I was just suggesting that throttle control can also help too. If your ESC is adjustable, you can program it with a higher freq for smoother response or adjust the torque curve... or even throttle curve on the radio. Especially if you are racing on a slick track. I ran Mod yesterday with my new 10x1 Orion Revolution motor. I didn't notice any torque steer with my SD. But then again, I was trying to be smooth on the throttle. Anyways, just tryin to offer other ways to "deal" with it....
KilRuf - No offense taken. Sorry I didn't pay much attention to the faces, sometimes it's hard to understand peoples intent on message boards. Next time I will pay closer attention to the faces.

On another note, how did you like your revolution motor??? I just purchased one the other day (8 Single). I'm still trying to find the sweet spot on the gearing and timing. Andrew Swanson posted some information in the Peak fourm. I think I'm still breaking in the brushes. After 6 runs the com still looks great and the brushes look new.
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:25 PM   #4645
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Quote:
Originally posted by tricklosi
well just the ultimate conversion kit and Team Suzuki alum front steering blocks and rear hubs. also just ordered the front oneway too.....i'm pretty excited..i feel kinda bad for my Losi now...looks like it going into retirement soon....
That's cool, I'm running similar stuff, but opted for the graphite spindles and hubs to save a little weight...
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:34 PM   #4646
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rcfiend- Any and all Tosolini hints and setups would be great additions to this thread!

I am also interested in the thoughts of the racers running the new Rev from Orion....the sales pitch makes on very excited in the world of Mod Sedan. Would love to be able to run a mod all day and just have fun racing not cutting comms...lol

Jeff
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:46 PM   #4647
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Well I like the motor very much. Only thing I don't like is soldering the wires to the copper brush housing. Would be nicer if they redesigned it with tabs added on. But that's my only grip/opinion. But as far as performance I've only had 4 runs so far. One practice at 8.5 ratio. And 2 qualifiers and a main at 7.8 final. Motor had plenty of top end and pull. And the comm still looks good. To me, felt as though the motor was getting stronger and stronger as I ran it with no drop off in performance. I guess it's still breaking in.. hehe. But so far so good. I also liked the fact that they come with 2 pairs of brushes. I figure I'll give the motor 15-20 runs before I true the comm. I'm gonna test the motor to see if it's actually true... I'd like to try an 8x2. But we run by Roar Rules here. Only 10turns.... Next one I get will be the Atushi Hara version.... Or the Peak Surikarn Version... But I like the way the Hara version looks..

I'd also like to hear other peoples thoughts on this motor.....
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Old 11-16-2003, 10:00 PM   #4648
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So is the idea behind the revolution motors to get the longest comm/brush life possible?

Are they any faster than a "regular" motor?
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Old 11-16-2003, 11:17 PM   #4649
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Here is some information that Andrew Swanson from Peak posted on RC Racechat:

Hi my name is Andrew Swanson i currently work for peak performance/team orion USA. I have been doing alot of touring car testing lately along with peak/orions main motor builder derek furetani. I would like to share with you what we have learned to help inform the public on these new motors.


Timing- As far as timing goes these motors come stock from the factory at 18 degrees or 3 hash marks on the label. The label reads as follows 1st hash= 6 degrees 2nd hash= 12 degrees 3rd hash= 18 degrees 4th hash=24 degrees. Of course it will be off a little due to the fact that all labels aren't always put on perfect or centered every time but it will be extremely close. I recently tested at a race they had at so cal raceway in huntington beach california and i tried many things over the weekend and one of the biggest things i noticed was how much timing affects these motors. I started out running 24 degrees or 4 hash marks and my car was a missle but i had to run a very low gearing to acheive the torque i wanted which is why we have been reccomending gearing down one tooth from a standard motor. I then tested really low timing like (4-6 degrees and gearing up about 2 teeth) and noticed a dramatic change in performance. The motor created much more bottom end torque and didn't want to fade as much towards the end of the run. I also noticed the motor ran cooler and didn't discolor the brushes as much as high timing did. I liked the lower timing and gearing up very much and when i spoke with derek about it we both agreed it does the same thing. We reccomend trying this low timing and gearing back up we believe it is very good. I will say that higher timing or 24 degrees is definitely faster but it also burns brushes more and tends to run hotter and fade more and doesn't create as much torque. Also low timing allows for a broader gearing range.


Brushes- I did all of my timing testing with sprint brushes and that is what i have been running most but a recent test i did shows that endouros produce a great powerband and dont sacrifice too much speed at all but the upside is that they last way longer and are less hard on the comm. It is true that sprint brushes produce more power but burn easier and must be replaced more often. I also think if you decide to run high timing run enduro brushes they seem to produce the same amount of powewr as sprints at high timing. At low timing i like sprints better cause the motor doesn't get as hot and it doesn't burn the brushes as bad.

Another brush fact is that these new round brushes like erik said when burnt or old still produce the same amount of power if not more but give you less run time or efficency.

Break-In Our reccomended break in is at least 5 min at a run in of 2-3 volts. These new round brusehs take much longer to seat then old style brushes and require a long break in period at low volts and preferabbly on a fan to keep heat down. We dont reccomend using break in drops due to the possibility of burning the brushes or comm.

My break in procedure right now is with enduro's (harder brush) 8-10 min at 2 volts and with sprints (more silver brush) 5-7 min at 2 volts on a fan.


springs will be tested next week.

Hope this help answer some questions.

KilRuf / Randman - I have only put about 6 runs on my 8 single and it's fast. If Andrew is right about the motor going faster after the brushes completely breakin, all I can say is watch out. I ran the motor for six runs and the brushes still are not completely seated. However I have cut the com a couple times to see if there is any variance in power, and there isn't. I'll post more after I have a little more time with the motor.
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Old 11-16-2003, 11:30 PM   #4650
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Now I just gotta wait for Putnam to start using that teardown
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