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Old 06-23-2008, 09:44 PM   #2251
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I am not 100% sold on the super short wheel base either..

Also did anyone try some of the ackerman things we ran at the reedy race ?? if so was it better ??

Mike
Mike,

I am sold on the super short wheelbase for 13.5 applications on asphalt. Best setup to date for my asphalt Phi. But, I would not have a clue about its use with mod motors.

At the Reedy, didn't you run the steering knuckle extensions while Tos had Josh's extension on the center steering arm? I thought Tos was sold on the extension being on the center arm.

Still looking forward to a offset left rear motor mount for my BL motor.

Thanks.

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Old 06-23-2008, 10:22 PM   #2252
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Bill... You could be right with 13.5 and 17.5. But for mod i think it hurts the forward bite way to much.

As for the extensions. We made two for my car one that would put it where the cyrul one was without it on the arm or one hole back from stock on the steering block and another that would actually be even more then were the cyrul one was or two holes from stock on the blocks. When we made the 2nd one i gave the first one we made to chris who used that and the cyrul. So we both were very close to the same ... Yes i think this helped quite a bit. It was one of the biggest feel changes i had all weekend long.

One thing i wanted to try was running the roll center up in the front and some kickup with 2 deg blocks or 3. this way i could run a softer spring. but never got to that point. This is what i was going to try at the nationals . But we did not go.

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Old 06-23-2008, 10:42 PM   #2253
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Thanks Mike.

This weekend is a non-race one for me...Looks like I have plenty to test following your leads.

Bill
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:48 PM   #2254
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I ran the super short wheelbase for the first time this weekend, and it was by far the best feeling car I've ever had on asphalt.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:52 PM   #2255
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I ran the super short wheelbase for the first time this weekend, and it was by far the best feeling car I've ever had on asphalt.
Exactly!
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:13 PM   #2256
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I ran the super short wheelbase for the first time this weekend, and it was by far the best feeling car I've ever had on asphalt.
This was with a 10.5 btw..
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:26 PM   #2257
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Carrying on about the short wheelbase setup...

1) Has anyone tried kickup?
2) Any thoughts on running the car totally narrow? No spacers at the front.
3) Has anyone tried less than 1-1/2 degrees toe in the rear?
4) Best way to achieve more car rotation when the traction comes up during the day.

Thanks.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:42 PM   #2258
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I love the Super Short wheelbase for 17.5 and 13.5!! My car feels awsome. Blackstock and I were talking recently and debating about kick-up. I always thought kick-up was just for bumpy tracks, but it did give the car alittle more on-power steering. I run on a tight/smooth track and my set up feels great (thanks Blackstock and Xman).

I'm sure with more HP the car would be a handfull. Not sure about carpet either.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:45 AM   #2259
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Mike, what is the effects of running kickup in the front or anti-dive in the rear. I'm just starting to run some mod rubber on asphalt.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:58 AM   #2260
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74vwtech...

You mean anti-squat in the rear ? I usually run flat - no anti-dive or anti squat. In the rear - more anti squat usually gives you more steering off-throttle and more rear bite on-throttle. Pro-squat gives less steering off-throttle and more steering on-throttle. It can be deceiving though - Anti-squat will make the car feel smoother on the first initial steering input where Pro-squat will make the car react faster.. This is what i have found. But some people feel things different

This is how i feel kick up works . Allows the transferring of more weight forward, thus off-power steering improves, Front end traction is increased with more forward weight transfer, With total caster being increased on-power steering and front end traction is improved. But i have had kick up in carpet cars have a tendency to want to traction roll very easy and be very aggressive entering the corner. I know this seems backwards. But this is what i have felt.

Anti-dive.. Just the opposite of kick-up. Decreases caster , less dive on the front end under weight transfer . This is one of things i do when i am having a traction roll problem. but when i do this i lose a lot of corner entry and the car feels like it pushes . So i usually run my pins flat.. Like i said before this is what i feel this does when i make these changes to my car . Not actually what it does in books or by experts. This is my opinion.

Hope it helps you.

Mike
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:34 AM   #2261
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hey all: When did dumas make the switch from losi to corally and was it because his losi deal was up or something else? Thanks
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:02 AM   #2262
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Thanks Mike for quick response.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:18 AM   #2263
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Any thoughts or input on a short wheel base/ rubber tire on carpet/ tight course. The carpet isn't really a high traction carpet, I'd say its med to low.
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:46 PM   #2264
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Any thoughts or input on a short wheel base/ rubber tire on carpet/ tight course. The carpet isn't really a high traction carpet, I'd say its med to low.
imo.......it really changes the balance of the car. It might help you in a few places on the track but it will also hurt you in a few places. This car is so good on rubber carpet without the extra short wheel base........i'm 99% sure you would end up back at stock wheel base.
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:12 PM   #2265
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Thanks Josh, always appreciate the input.

Mike, I really can't explain the kick or anti dive and what it does according to what the books say, but I really like the feel of the car when I run some in the front. I think or at least it feels like it has better turn in via weight transfer, and unloads the back of the car just enough to get better rotation entering into a corner, and also seems like it transfers weight to the back on acceleration coming out or feels like the back is better planted on power coming out of a corner. The only thing that I have found is that I end up running one step harder spring in the front than when I don't run the kick, its like it sort of splits the spring rating.

Bill, I have tried the car narrow in the front but found it gave too much front end grip.

I also wonder if anyone has noticed some discrepencies with the adjustment book from Corrally versus the one from Xray, seems like there are several things that are totally opposite of each other.

These are all based on rubber tire (JACO Green) on carpet testing.
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