R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-26-2003, 08:38 PM   #16
Tech Adept
 
unknown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Center Line, MI
Posts: 226
Send a message via AIM to unknown
Default

I dont know what the deal is. I tried changing my ride height. Changing the droop settings. I tried changing the way I put my battery in. I tried differen't springs. For some reason...the flipping came back and the steering is still the same. I dont know what to do. I could keep trying things but it is always the same turnout. I think its time for me just to give my car to an expert and tell him I will pay him to get my car setup correctly.
unknown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2003, 10:06 PM   #17
Tech Elite
 
popsracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: "Hot, Sunny Southern California"
Posts: 3,120
Default unknown;

Hey sorry but I just got around to viewing your pics. Are those 30mm Rear Foams? Could be that you just have too much traction.
Try decreasing your Droop to 2mm in the front and 3-4mm in the rear. If you are running on Carpet no higher than 4-4.5mm ride height (unless the track has minimum height rules). Everthing else looks pretty good to me.
With our Nitro Cars, if traction rolls occur it's time for a Shock Spring or a tire compound change. If you don't have Springs or tires, buy the stiffer springs first as they are much cheaper than tires. Stiffer springs offer the advantage of less body roll which will translate to faster corner speeds if you have the grip. (and it sounds like you do)
popsracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2003, 09:52 AM   #18
Tech Elite
 
Jack Smash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,897
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

Those foams look pretty tall. You might want to true them down to 59mm or so. That might help both the flipping and the understeer.
Jack Smash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 08:39 AM   #19
Tech Adept
 
unknown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Center Line, MI
Posts: 226
Send a message via AIM to unknown
Default

Axiom5B

What is the difference between piston 1, 2, and 3? They are those little white things right? I don't see any difference really? I am gonna buy some threaded shocks today and I wanted to know why you suggested piston 2.
unknown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 08:59 AM   #20
Tech Elite
 
popsracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: "Hot, Sunny Southern California"
Posts: 3,120
Default flipping came back and the steering is still the same

unknown;

Work on roll and Grip. You have too much of both and this will cause traction rolls. The Pushing in the front is also caused by too much grip in the REAR or not enough in the FRONT. Since you are Traction rolling and from looking at your pictures, I feel that the Tires are the cause of all of your problems.
popsracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 09:34 AM   #21
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cypress, CA
Posts: 75
Default

Unknown

I'm getting my .02 in a bit late but....

It may just be an optical illusion, but in the pictures you posted it looks like you've got alot of ride height & a little front rake. How much ride height are you using and is there any difference front to rear?

Lots of ride height + lower front ride height = spectacular crash footage.

The TC3 guys I race use 5-6mm ride height with little or no difference front to rear on prepped asphalt.
dalem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 11:59 AM   #22
Tech Adept
 
unknown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Center Line, MI
Posts: 226
Send a message via AIM to unknown
Default

Its an illusion. The ride height is 6 mm all the way around.

Popsracer:

I am getting the treaded shocks because it will make it easier on me. Plus, I need to upgrade eventually. So, I figured now is the time. I am changing the shock oil like Axiom said.
unknown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 02:22 PM   #23
Tech Elite
 
popsracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: "Hot, Sunny Southern California"
Posts: 3,120
Default 30mm Tires????

Guys;

Take a good hard look at his pics. I swear the tires look like 30mm wide Foams. If this is the case, that could be root cause of all his problems.
popsracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 02:55 PM   #24
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newville,Pa
Posts: 2,152
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Unknown- Answer a few questions please....

What is the width of your foam tires?
It looks like you use compound, do you saok the full width of the tires in the front?
If you use compound, what brand?
What type of track do you race on?


If you are using 30 mm foams get yourself some 26mm tires... while your at it get purple/plaids instead of the double purples.....

If you are using compound on them, and soaking the full width on the fronts then that is your problem. only ever do 1/2-2/3 of the front tires.

If you aren't using the prope traction compound then it will cause all of your problems..... Trinity RED DOT is for asphalt racing, on carpet it will cause too much grip ad then load up with track grit and cause too little traction.

When you get your new foams have someone at the track true them own to 59mm. Too tall of a front tires will actually roll over onto it's self while cornering and cause tractiion rolls.

What was the very last set-up you used that felt OK? Go back to it when you get the new tires and start over...

What are you using for chamber settings? too shallow of a chamber setting mixed with short chamber rds will allow the car to roll the tires over.

6mm ride height?? dude that is way too much if you are running on carpet, go with 4-4.5 unless your track has a min. ride height rule, and then go there. I always start with a .5 mm rake towards the front.

What radio do you use? I see you started with a TC3 RTR, if you are still using that radio ditc it and get one with atleast end point adjustments. Futaba MAGNUM Jr. is the bottom of the barrel, better yet go for the JR.XR2, or Airtronics MX-3....

Next post will be one on theory........
__________________
G's RC Raceway- Best off-road track on the east coast...period!!!

Pitman for Team Dallas Austin...

Last edited by IMPACTPLAYR; 03-01-2003 at 02:58 PM.
IMPACTPLAYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 03:26 PM   #25
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newville,Pa
Posts: 2,152
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default Traction roll... what is it??? How do I stop it???

Traction roll is when the front of your car digs into the racing surface too hard and causes the car to flip.

What causes traction roll?? SIMPLY too much steering or too much front grip.

Aren't steering and front grip the same?? NO steering is how far the wheel is being turned, front grip is exactly what it sounds like.

How do I stop raction roll??

STEERING--- Use a radio with end point adjustments to reduce how far you can actually turn the wheel... For carpet racing you should never need to use more than 50% of teh total available steering throw.... for asphalt you should never need more than 60-65%....

FRONT GRIP- Front grip should be adjusted until your car turns the sharpest corner with the minimum steering input without causing traction roll.

What can cause (grip) traction rolls??

Too little chamber usually between 1-1.5deg. of chamber will be enough, any less and you can traction roll any more and the car will understeer (push out)

Too low of ride height-- mixed with too soft of springs and the front of the car (chassis) will dig into the racing surface... this will be noticed by a car that will begin understeering (pushng out) and then suddenly over steer and flip. At 6mm ride height you definately don't have this problem.

Too short of chamber rods-- shorter chamber rods allow the car to roll ( one side dive too much) too much. This will cause the chamber to become too shallow allowing the outside of thetire to have the must amount of traction.... and the car will flip.

Too high of rideheight--- which also allows the car to roll more.....

Too soft of swaybar/ springs/ oil---- all will allow too much roll on the car and cause the outside of the tire to dig in.

Too tall of tire sidewall-- this allows the trie to roll over onto it's self and let the outside get more grip

Too much compound on the front--- This flat out givs the outside of the tire too much grip

Too much weight on the rear-- the more weight that the rear has the more that is tracnsferred to the front while braking causing extra traction. I don't see you with this probem either, but donot add weight to the rear of your car to get more taction back there!!

too much rear droop--- this allows the rear end to raise too much under braking and transfers too much weight to the front causing extra grip.
__________________
G's RC Raceway- Best off-road track on the east coast...period!!!

Pitman for Team Dallas Austin...
IMPACTPLAYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 05:18 PM   #26
Tech Adept
 
unknown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Center Line, MI
Posts: 226
Send a message via AIM to unknown
Default

The foams are indeed 26mm. I looked at the package right now.

I use Racers Choice "BLU" Traction Formula.

When I apply it to my front tires...I only put it on the inner most of the tire...about 1/5 of the whole tire.

I race on Ozite Carpet.

While I'm at it, I will ask you all a question about changing shock oil. How do you get it so that there are no air bubbles? I can't seem to get all the air bubbles out.

I am currently working on changing my front and rear shock oil to 70 and 50 wt. I am also changing the springs and messing around with the height. I am gonna get to the track on Monday and mess around with some of the different setup's.
unknown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 05:38 PM   #27
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newville,Pa
Posts: 2,152
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

one thing you can try is use some thin CA. use it on the outer sidewalls of te foams, this will stiffen them up and disallow them to flex.

I have a trick I use on top loaded shocks like the ae ones.

take the pistons and shafts out of the shocks. hold the cylinder in your hand with your finger covering the hole the shaft goes thru. hold it at a 60 deg angle and slowly trickle the oil down the side. once the cylinder is almost full turn it verticle . fill the cylinder up to 1/4" from the top. now install the shaft slowly, making sure not to remove your finger from the hole intil the shaft starts coming thru....... slowly pull the shaft thru until it bottoms out...... now follow the rest of the insructions for building the shock....... there should be very little to no air in your shocks.......
__________________
G's RC Raceway- Best off-road track on the east coast...period!!!

Pitman for Team Dallas Austin...
IMPACTPLAYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 05:44 PM   #28
Tech Elite
 
popsracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: "Hot, Sunny Southern California"
Posts: 3,120
Default Fixed flipping problem - now I need more steering

Unknown;

Like most EVIL handling R/C Cars, the problem is usually very simple. Sometimes though it can be VERY hard to trouble shoot.
Have you gone to the Associated Website and downloaded a Carpet set-up. Might try and see how far you are off and at least this gives you a baseline set-up to work with.
Another thing, ALWAYS write your changes down. Either on a Set-up sheet or in a note book.

The the Bubbles in the Shock oil, all it takes is patients. I have drilled a couple of holes in my work bench to place the shock bodies while the bubbles float to the top and dissipate (pop)
Pour the oil in slowly almost to the top, then stroke the shaft a few times VERY SLOWLY to bring all of the bubbles up. Let the filled shocks sit for 5 minutes and you should be ready for the caps.
popsracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2003, 05:48 PM   #29
Tech Elite
 
popsracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: "Hot, Sunny Southern California"
Posts: 3,120
Default Filling shocks with oil

IMPACTPLAYR;

Sorry, I read right past your post.
This is the same way that I fill my shocks. Much less air bubbles to deal with and the shock oil lubricates the O-rings.
popsracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2003, 10:42 AM   #30
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: mishawaka, IN
Posts: 48
Default

Here is the way that I usually fill my shocks.
1. move the piston all the way to the bottom.
2. fill the shock about an eighth of the way then move the piston up until it is just below the surface of the oil.
3. continue this process until the shock is full.
4. move the piston up and down a few times and then assemble it.

with this process there is no need to let it sit, there are practically no air bubbles (if any).
micro speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TC4 steering problem mnapp69 Electric On-Road 4 12-25-2007 05:20 AM
small problem, probebly easily fixed kwik-kid R/C Tech Site Forum 3 10-29-2007 05:59 AM
how to fix the problem in steering? Potter Micro and Mini Scales 2 10-18-2007 06:19 PM
Steering Problem jmdv Nitro Off-Road 8 06-28-2007 08:23 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 10:53 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net