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Old 12-03-2006, 02:58 PM   #31
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These arguments can be summed up so easily, every time.

1. The guy who tries to hide behind the safety argument. It's well-documented that the better quality cells are likely SAFER than NiMH. Cheap LiPo cells can be dangerous when mistreated. It's a valid concern, but it's not as easy as saying "all LiPo is going to set your house/cat/car on fire."

2. The guy who tries to say "blah blah blah, technology is still changing, just look at how much brushless has changed in its 5 years since introduction." Seriously, you idiots need to get a grip. Technology will NEVER stand still. Ever. Get it? Things will always get better. You guys are the worst kind of idiots in these discussions. Yea, things always improve, what a grand observation, you damn mouthbreathers.

3. The people that think it's about voltage. More voltage from the latest NiMH means it's better! Uh huh.

4. The LiPo zealot that generally can't string together enough consecutive words to form a proper sentence.

5. The NiMH people that try to scare you with stores about how matched LiPo is going to make it somehow suck. Lets just assume matching is always part of the picture no matter what batteries we run, and forget about that part of it. Sleezy matchers trying to gouge consumers will always exist. Yay.

6. The realists that try to make fair arguments for both sides, and point to the advantages (and disadvantages) of each. Many of them see LiPo as the next great thing, but urge people to get informed about safety, quality of cells, etc.
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:11 PM   #32
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Don't sugar coat it-tell us how you really feel!
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:13 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by syndr0me
2. The guy who tries to say "blah blah blah, technology is still changing, just look at how much brushless has changed in its 5 years since introduction." Seriously, you idiots need to get a grip. Technology will NEVER stand still. Ever. Get it? Things will always get better. You guys are the worst kind of idiots in these discussions. Yea, things always improve, what a grand observation, you damn mouthbreathers.
Well thanks for that blindingly insightful and stupid intervention. The point is you moron, that too many people have rushed out and bought brushless and been very p****d off because within months they are no longer competitive. Do you really think that no one notices technology moves on, and do you really think that everyone assumes that all the vendors are simply out to gouge us? More fool you!

@Rick - I hear you on safety Rick, but the concern is that it is much easier to make a mistake with LiPo, and not every RC racer will afford the Peak/Orion technology that is well thought through. And, if it is so safe, why is it that only one of the three major distributors in the UK is selling LiPo for cars - and one who isn't is yours!!

I just don't believe it is as simple as saying it is safer without some more experience. Our 5th Scale Bike guys have had a very successful season with LiPo, but they are all exprienced RC guys. On the other hand, we know of at least three serious incidents in homes with LiPo, and threats to sue the distributors. And if a company like Sony can have a serious manufacturing fault... It'll come, just call me risk averse!!
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Sleezy matchers trying to gouge consumers will always exist. Yay.
LMAO....Its called business....Every company in the world does the exact same thing. Just because you are a fan of Lipo's doesnt mean you have degrade others.

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Old 12-03-2006, 03:24 PM   #35
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LMAO....Its called business....Every company in the world does the exact same thing. Just because you are a fan of Lipo's doesnt mean you have degrade others.

EA
You're right, "sleezy" was the wrong word, and the statement was too general. I don't think they're bad people, and they're providing a "service" that will always exist in racing at all levels.

I think there is some bias, however, and it's frustrating.
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne
Well thanks for that blindingly insightful and stupid intervention. The point is you moron, that too many people have rushed out and bought brushless and been very p****d off because within months they are no longer competitive. Do you really think that no one notices technology moves on, and do you really think that everyone assumes that all the vendors are simply out to gouge us? More fool you!
You probably made the best argument about waiting on technology that I've seen yet.

Early adopters will always feel the growing pains of new technology. In R/C or computers or anything else. It's valid and understandable that people will wait on something new to see how it plays out. As a recent example, look at all the early problems with Spektrum when it was released. My point with that statement (yea, it probably unfairly targeted you, sorry) is that we're past that phase now. LiPo is a proven technology, and its use in R/C is fairly mature at this point. Yes, it's evolving, and yes, your batteries may become obsolete eventually, but not today, next week or probably even next year.

If you're an early adopter, make sure you pick a company that's got a good warranty program and good customer service. If they're not going to make it easy for you when something goes wrong with their stuff, use your feet and buy from someone else. Hold them accountable for their problems, because by buying early, you're essentially a beta tester, and deserve to be treated with extreme generosity.

One of the advantages to not being particularly interested in sponsorship, and not running an R/C business is that you're free to speak openly. There's a LOT of guys on here that are muzzled to placate their sponsors, or to not offend potential customers. It's a shame, I'd like to hear more about what people really think rather than the sanitized, canned responses we often get.
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Old 12-03-2006, 04:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
You're right, "sleezy" was the wrong word, and the statement was too general. I don't think they're bad people, and they're providing a "service" that will always exist in racing at all levels.

I think there is some bias, however, and it's frustrating.
Yea I knew what you meant....Thats why I laughed about it and didnt make a lame attempt at ripping you a new one

One thing I HOPE that Roar does do is to at least allow a brushless class at all the Roar electric events this year....I also wished they would have allowed a brushless demo class as well but we all know that will not happen with the decision they come up to.

Just a FYI I am on the Roar On-road committee and have tried to give my advice for all of Roar and one thing I agreed on with the Oval guys was to drop the 19 turn class and make it a brushless class of either the 4300 or 5800 series Novak motors. That was shot down though. So not all "brush tuners" or "sleezy battery matchers" are against this technology....Just those that are scared of it. I have a college education so I can always go back to work if I have to

Instead of everyone slamming Roar on here why dont they take the time to email the Excomm and let them know exactly what they would like to see for next year (brushless, lipo, cell count, age limits, sponsored driver classes, etc) and maybe some of this will be looked at. I know a lot of the stuff the On-road committee brought up was looked at and most of it passed.

I can all but guarantee you that there will be brushless rules for stock and 19 turn next year along with classes. I would also say that as lipo technology advances and more companies as Orion come out with pretty much fool proof Lipo's that those will be accepted as well. Roar is not out to get anyone....they are trying to learn from past mistakes and not jump the gun on some things....although they almost did with the 4 cell crap!!

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Old 12-03-2006, 04:40 PM   #38
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If you drink beer, EA, you've got a free one coming your way when I finally attend a big event. Of course, I'll have to assume an alias in the name of personal safety, but you know... :-D
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:03 PM   #39
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i had a personal exprerience with lipo gone bad today. pretty scary experience. from what was learned after the incident, the guy was using a proper lipo charger, but after getting an error the first time he pressed the start button, he pressed it again a few moments later and it started to charge.

anyway, it resulted in what looked like a huge roman candle, spitting hot melted who knows what for about a 2~3 foot radius around the pack. unfotunately, my pit was directly across from his, and some of my equipment is visibly damaged now. it all works right still, but everything looks like it has hundreds of cigarette burns on the top. thankfully, i was in the hobby shop getting some parts because the burn pattern went across my pit towel to right where i would have been working on my car.

this dude seemed like a pretty experienced racer, definitely not some n00b kid who has no idea what he's doing. the place was kind of hazy after the smoke cleared and smelled horrible. i ended up going home, i need all my brain cells for work tomorrow.
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:24 PM   #40
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I wonder who manufactured the cells? That does sound scary, though.
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:52 PM   #41
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Heres what I get, lipo is a class of it's own. You dont let a newby run mod.
So dont let a newby run lipo. It's simple, the lipo class will have to meet and exceed certain standards in the future. This is a given after all safety is the highest standard. But the fact remains, that the consumer is demanding progress and that's just how it is. I personally know syndrome, he 's a very good person and I'm sure he really means no harm. He's just stressed from alot of studying to this boom and he's really up to date. any how read you all later.
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:57 PM   #42
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I personally know syndrome, he 's a very good person and I'm sure he really means no harm. He's just stressed from alot of studying to this boom and he's really up to date. any how read you all later.
Lies! I kick puppies and eat kittens. Quit trying to ruin my street cred, man! :-)
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Old 12-03-2006, 11:54 PM   #43
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Now you guys now why I wont go out to dinner with Syndrome.
Here's the class we run.
Novak 4300 brushless lipo foam.
Any car any foam's. (LRP Sphere or Novak speedo's.) ONLY.
We also allow any rotor. Lipo 3200 & 4800, Sub-C 6Cell.
Srickly 4300 motor's, the allowed, is only to put alittle tunability into it, to keep us busy. We have so much time now, we have been thinking about putting in a pool table. Sense we started this class, I have saved alot of money had more fun and been more competitive. You have not seen close racing till you try this one. We have been getting old racers back, and new one's. We have gone from 3 To 13 racers over night almost. And growing .Were Actually running B Mains again. This new technoligy may have very well saved club racing. I've heard poeple say they quit because its to serious. But mostly due to the cost of being competitive. This class has put the most out with less cost in. Just my 2 cents. And if you want to go cheaper? 13.5 rubber.

Last edited by UN4RACING; 12-04-2006 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:18 AM   #44
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Oh and just one more thing. Belly aking, complaining, debating, Arguing, are all the 1st phases in drawing towards solutions to any imperfections in our hobby. It's just part of the process of getting to the bottom of making things better for us all. I guess what I'm tring to say is keep up the debates. There are people reading this stuff just to find out what we want. And be sure that's the way the market will go. More bang for the buck is in the new technolagy, and it appears it's catching on. The Official 4300 brushless lipo foam thread is visited very frequently by even Bob Novak himself. And the owner of Orion batteries, Charlie The engineer from novak. And I would guess More of the big boys will start showing up before long. So keep debating your being heard.
.............X........The Official 4300 Brushless Lipo Foam thread. Your sure to be heard.

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Old 12-04-2006, 12:33 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussB
i had a personal exprerience with lipo gone bad today. pretty scary experience. from what was learned after the incident, the guy was using a proper lipo charger, but after getting an error the first time he pressed the start button, he pressed it again a few moments later and it started to charge.

anyway, it resulted in what looked like a huge roman candle, spitting hot melted who knows what for about a 2~3 foot radius around the pack. unfotunately, my pit was directly across from his, and some of my equipment is visibly damaged now. it all works right still, but everything looks like it has hundreds of cigarette burns on the top. thankfully, i was in the hobby shop getting some parts because the burn pattern went across my pit towel to right where i would have been working on my car.

this dude seemed like a pretty experienced racer, definitely not some n00b kid who has no idea what he's doing. the place was kind of hazy after the smoke cleared and smelled horrible. i ended up going home, i need all my brain cells for work tomorrow.
What brand of lipo batt is it? Where there any signs before the batt exploded as a warning to us lipo users?
The lhs has yet to restock orion brand. There's lipo coming in made by Intellect as I heard from the lhs owner. I didn't know they made lipo batts.
So far Platinum lipo has been worth it. On stock 23 its not as strong as matched cells but using it so many times I doubt matched cells would still be as good.
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