The official "fix TC racing" thread
12-03-2006, 07:27 AM
#61
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Posts: 4,762
Yeah i know (sorry company`s) But some company`s are pushing the limit`s a bit to much & they deserve it 
i can see Hotbodies (cyclone `S`) which is worse then the Yokomo MR4 in quality
But xray get`s thumbs up from me on the T2R @£140.00 ,which is availble to upgrade aswell (but alas the parts are expensive ,but you can`t have your cake & eat i suppose )
Newcomers go down club see what car is what go to shop find out price (got to fit in & be cool) then dad/Mum shout crap How much (just for the rolling chassis
then you get the TT01 brigade come in ,doesn`t fit in with whats @ club ,no one has spares , No one runs them .And very limited from fellow racers on how to make them handle safley for the newbe
yokomo mr4 @£100.00 is the best Buy over here so far ,But it`s like 6 years old ,looks like a racing car but it`s OLD hat
Maybe the bigineers class should be 27t/ any car under £130.00 ,then no one out buy`s the other in car term`s.out of box spec
but you have this 5cell thingy going on with different cell count in different classes ,what the hell is going on newbies get stick packs aswell
i remember it was like this in 2000 now in 2006 it`s still going on ,But the clock is ticking & i`m not getting any younger
it`s like flogging a dead horse
ssems no one really listen`s unless you have the contacts at the TOP or a bit of clout behind you to get things listened too
i can see Hotbodies (cyclone `S`) which is worse then the Yokomo MR4 in quality
But xray get`s thumbs up from me on the T2R @£140.00 ,which is availble to upgrade aswell (but alas the parts are expensive ,but you can`t have your cake & eat i suppose )
Newcomers go down club see what car is what go to shop find out price (got to fit in & be cool) then dad/Mum shout crap How much (just for the rolling chassis
then you get the TT01 brigade come in ,doesn`t fit in with whats @ club ,no one has spares , No one runs them .And very limited from fellow racers on how to make them handle safley for the newbe
yokomo mr4 @£100.00 is the best Buy over here so far ,But it`s like 6 years old ,looks like a racing car but it`s OLD hat
Maybe the bigineers class should be 27t/ any car under £130.00 ,then no one out buy`s the other in car term`s.out of box spec
but you have this 5cell thingy going on with different cell count in different classes ,what the hell is going on newbies get stick packs aswell
i remember it was like this in 2000 now in 2006 it`s still going on ,But the clock is ticking & i`m not getting any younger
it`s like flogging a dead horse ssems no one really listen`s unless you have the contacts at the TOP or a bit of clout behind you to get things listened too
12-03-2006, 08:34 AM
#62
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
When i started off-road i had second hand stuff ,cars,battery`s, cheapest radio gear ever acoms techniplus ,second hand tyre`s even ,used to fish through the bins after the Nationals to find tyre`s to use on other meets ,clubs & so on
had to have have scr1200`s when the top boy`s had 1700sce`s
used to get in the E`s & D`s in 4 wd & made a couple of A`s in 2wd @regional
used to borrow stuff for the meet aswell ,didn`t have enough money to fund it ,but i liked it so much i kept going ,if a speedo (nosram or Novak blow that be it for about month & bit before i could get another one )
i do think the newer generation of today expect to be good with out pratice & they believe spend spend spend is the answer to results & expect the wins to handed to them on a plate then when it doesn`t come ,they blame the rules & other stuff
the youngesters of today have no help what so ever to get in now , even the normal racers think that every one car controll a R/C car straight off
you should see the look on the faces of the top heat drivers when they marshall the first heat ( it`s like i never used to be that bad ,i was much better then that attitude when i started , why do they bother
i have very good first hand experience regarding this
No one in the racing fertinity new harry was my son , i took him to 3 of outside/inside club meets for him to get a feel for it
coz the drivers new who i was , but they didn`t know about Harry being with me
27t he was in)
And this was a eye opener
in the scaryest way,pratice session opens up this was only 27/19t class`s no Mods were there
i`m standing there with another dad who has 2 sons (roughly same age as My son) same ability aswell, they are out there 4 cars going round together learning the track all 3 lads chuggling to them selves as they scrap paint of each other while going round
down the straight they go (remember just pratice) gets to the end BANG a car comes up the straight ,right through the lads cars(missed the 4th one)
gets a big moan of the rostrum by a TOP national A finalist) why didn`t you call slow car ,aiming at the 3 lads cars on the track
i thought that`s fine 1 mishap no probs i can deal with it ,top drivers car is broke )4 lads still loving it (there was a silent atmosphere around the boys ,as they thought it was there fault
looks at the other dad ,i asked does happen alot with you or is just bad timing ,he answered happens all the time ,we are new here i don`t think we will come back for a while
anyways harry goes out with 3 other lads down straaght (same thing bang blah blah ,this time the lads were in the way
while all this was going on the 2 TOP drivers Knew who i was as they came off the rostrum moaning to me why the hell are those cars on track ,blah blah
i ask which cars he pointed out Harrys car as it pulls up to my Feet , then the penny drops Harry is with me , Then both the TOP drivers changed there Tune about the situ, saying it wa sall right & started to back down in the statements , thus i don`t go back there with harry a very very Bad EXPERIENCE INDEED FOR HARRY, as for me it just confirms what i thought in the first place some of the TOP 27t/19t driver`s are very 2 faced & wouldn`t give you the time of day, let alone help newbies to get on & feel welcome ,quite a few TOP drivers have there head so far up there arse`s & thinking they are the Bees Knees, they don`t give a rats arse for the newbies
having a son who races at certain clubs that no one knows about gives you a good insight into how it really is (word soon spreads who my son is though, so now every one is quite nice towrds harry ) funny that
that experience above was about the same at 3 clubs i went to before i got figured harry was my son
had to have have scr1200`s when the top boy`s had 1700sce`s
used to get in the E`s & D`s in 4 wd & made a couple of A`s in 2wd @regional
used to borrow stuff for the meet aswell ,didn`t have enough money to fund it ,but i liked it so much i kept going ,if a speedo (nosram or Novak blow that be it for about month & bit before i could get another one )
i do think the newer generation of today expect to be good with out pratice & they believe spend spend spend is the answer to results & expect the wins to handed to them on a plate then when it doesn`t come ,they blame the rules & other stuff
the youngesters of today have no help what so ever to get in now , even the normal racers think that every one car controll a R/C car straight off
you should see the look on the faces of the top heat drivers when they marshall the first heat ( it`s like i never used to be that bad ,i was much better then that attitude when i started , why do they bother
i have very good first hand experience regarding this
No one in the racing fertinity new harry was my son , i took him to 3 of outside/inside club meets for him to get a feel for it
coz the drivers new who i was , but they didn`t know about Harry being with me
27t he was in)
And this was a eye opener
in the scaryest way,pratice session opens up this was only 27/19t class`s no Mods were there i`m standing there with another dad who has 2 sons (roughly same age as My son) same ability aswell, they are out there 4 cars going round together learning the track all 3 lads chuggling to them selves as they scrap paint of each other while going round
down the straight they go (remember just pratice) gets to the end BANG a car comes up the straight ,right through the lads cars(missed the 4th one)
gets a big moan of the rostrum by a TOP national A finalist) why didn`t you call slow car ,aiming at the 3 lads cars on the track
i thought that`s fine 1 mishap no probs i can deal with it ,top drivers car is broke
)4 lads still loving it (there was a silent atmosphere around the boys ,as they thought it was there fault looks at the other dad ,i asked does happen alot with you or is just bad timing ,he answered happens all the time ,we are new here i don`t think we will come back for a while
anyways harry goes out with 3 other lads down straaght (same thing bang blah blah ,this time the lads were in the way
while all this was going on the 2 TOP drivers Knew who i was as they came off the rostrum moaning to me why the hell are those cars on track ,blah blah
i ask which cars he pointed out Harrys car as it pulls up to my Feet , then the penny drops Harry is with me , Then both the TOP drivers changed there Tune about the situ, saying it wa sall right & started to back down in the statements , thus i don`t go back there with harry a very very Bad EXPERIENCE INDEED FOR HARRY, as for me it just confirms what i thought in the first place some of the TOP 27t/19t driver`s are very 2 faced & wouldn`t give you the time of day, let alone help newbies to get on & feel welcome ,quite a few TOP drivers have there head so far up there arse`s & thinking they are the Bees Knees, they don`t give a rats arse for the newbies
having a son who races at certain clubs that no one knows about gives you a good insight into how it really is (word soon spreads who my son is though, so now every one is quite nice towrds harry ) funny that
that experience above was about the same at 3 clubs i went to before i got figured harry was my son
not all 27t 19t drivers are aragent aholes i know what your saying tho there is a lot of so called top drivers out there who think they rule the race track hey ive been done my self not even got an apology or even an axcuse.
i remeber when i started racing in 1990 i was like you colin didn't have the money could only bye things if i saved up or xmas or bdays i tell you the worst thing about being a youngster was trying to approch the top drivers to ask for advise they never seemed friendly back in 1990 i was 11 and i was always expecting to be told to go away im too busy as you know colin i do help people out these days that is the reason for it plus i'm a nice guy he he
stu
12-03-2006, 08:56 AM
#63
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MOOD;; feeling good not racing ,saving shed loads of money,lovely Tan i have aswell
Posts: 4,762
Originally Posted by stuey
hey colin
not all 27t 19t drivers are aragent aholes i know what your saying tho there is a lot of so called top drivers out there who think they rule the race track hey ive been done my self not even got an apology or even an axcuse.
i remeber when i started racing in 1990 i was like you colin didn't have the money could only bye things if i saved up or xmas or bdays i tell you the worst thing about being a youngster was trying to approch the top drivers to ask for advise they never seemed friendly back in 1990 i was 11 and i was always expecting to be told to go away im too busy as you know colin i do help people out these days that is the reason for it plus i'm a nice guy he he
stu
not all 27t 19t drivers are aragent aholes i know what your saying tho there is a lot of so called top drivers out there who think they rule the race track hey ive been done my self not even got an apology or even an axcuse.
i remeber when i started racing in 1990 i was like you colin didn't have the money could only bye things if i saved up or xmas or bdays i tell you the worst thing about being a youngster was trying to approch the top drivers to ask for advise they never seemed friendly back in 1990 i was 11 and i was always expecting to be told to go away im too busy as you know colin i do help people out these days that is the reason for it plus i'm a nice guy he he
stu
seems the newer ones don`t have time of day very N.I.M.B.Y. nowa days
12-03-2006, 09:35 AM
#64
I enjoy racing now as much or more than when I was a kid.
I race stock TC with a nice 06 Xray and its the best kit that I have ever had. Its the most expensive too! I am not complaining though it is an adult priced, adult toy/hobby.
I see a lack of an economical racing class. Stock TC is expensive to get into and hope to be "competitive" in. Add up a kit, radio, charger, batteries, motor(s), tires, tools, esc, servo, body and you get a very formidable number. That number is to big for a lot of people to 'get into' stock racing. We all know that.
I started racing in the late 80's with an RC12L. It was $60 BUCKS! The car was fiberglass and had bushings. I built it myself, no RTR, and raced it at a local track. All my friends bought one and we went racing every week. We had maybe three battery packs and only bought a new set of tires when the old ones were worn out. We had some kind of stock motor (read slow) and just drove against each other. Racing was affordable to get into. PLUS, I bet that 12L will be nearly as good as my current 12L4. Parts were cheap and I am not sure that anyone every really broke anything anyway.
Just recently I built a car (converted really) a TC for my three year old son to drive with me. It is a Yokomo mini that was laying around. I installed a 55T LATHE motor form Integy. Then I added a 1/10 scale TC body. The car goes slow, maybe 5mph, its on rubber tires that will NEVER wear out, and it can't go fast enough for my three year old to break. Believe me he tries!
The car I made for my son is slow, but if a half dozen people (begginers) were racing them against each other around a track it would be a ball! I would enjoy it too. The batteries don't matter-it runs for thirty minutes on a 3000 maH charge. The car is not sliding unless its a really tight corner-the tires would not be a factor. The motor draws a 1/2 amp at 2volts-it'll last a long time. Plus its rebuildable.
I am NOT saying we all need a lathe motor class. But I feel the hobby of RC racing needs a new entry level class. Stock TC has evolved into something else as I see it. I race to have fun and enjoy a good race. A low price, quality chassis, were speed, batteries, and grip are not critical is essential for a newcomer without having to spend $1k PLUS to START racing. I know that I could not afford it if I was thirteen again. I did not have a parent who brought me into the hobby. I sought out RC racing myself. I don't see a lot of younger people (10-18) at my track. We all know why I think.
What would it take to create a general novice/econo class for the country or a region to follow? Local hobby shop-race tracks would need to support it. ROAR would need to support it and that would probably do it. The industry would need to leave it alone by not pressuring the class to always be faster-better-new-and-improved.
Just as a post script, I would like a 1/10 scale (maybe suspensionless) pan car with rubber tires and a 4 cell stick pack. The motor choice would be important. I don't know how appropriate the 27T 24 degree motors would be? In my opinion they are a little to tweaked as it is. What does everyone think?
I race stock TC with a nice 06 Xray and its the best kit that I have ever had. Its the most expensive too! I am not complaining though it is an adult priced, adult toy/hobby.
I see a lack of an economical racing class. Stock TC is expensive to get into and hope to be "competitive" in. Add up a kit, radio, charger, batteries, motor(s), tires, tools, esc, servo, body and you get a very formidable number. That number is to big for a lot of people to 'get into' stock racing. We all know that.
I started racing in the late 80's with an RC12L. It was $60 BUCKS! The car was fiberglass and had bushings. I built it myself, no RTR, and raced it at a local track. All my friends bought one and we went racing every week. We had maybe three battery packs and only bought a new set of tires when the old ones were worn out. We had some kind of stock motor (read slow) and just drove against each other. Racing was affordable to get into. PLUS, I bet that 12L will be nearly as good as my current 12L4. Parts were cheap and I am not sure that anyone every really broke anything anyway.
Just recently I built a car (converted really) a TC for my three year old son to drive with me. It is a Yokomo mini that was laying around. I installed a 55T LATHE motor form Integy. Then I added a 1/10 scale TC body. The car goes slow, maybe 5mph, its on rubber tires that will NEVER wear out, and it can't go fast enough for my three year old to break. Believe me he tries!
The car I made for my son is slow, but if a half dozen people (begginers) were racing them against each other around a track it would be a ball! I would enjoy it too. The batteries don't matter-it runs for thirty minutes on a 3000 maH charge. The car is not sliding unless its a really tight corner-the tires would not be a factor. The motor draws a 1/2 amp at 2volts-it'll last a long time. Plus its rebuildable.
I am NOT saying we all need a lathe motor class. But I feel the hobby of RC racing needs a new entry level class. Stock TC has evolved into something else as I see it. I race to have fun and enjoy a good race. A low price, quality chassis, were speed, batteries, and grip are not critical is essential for a newcomer without having to spend $1k PLUS to START racing. I know that I could not afford it if I was thirteen again. I did not have a parent who brought me into the hobby. I sought out RC racing myself. I don't see a lot of younger people (10-18) at my track. We all know why I think.
What would it take to create a general novice/econo class for the country or a region to follow? Local hobby shop-race tracks would need to support it. ROAR would need to support it and that would probably do it. The industry would need to leave it alone by not pressuring the class to always be faster-better-new-and-improved.
Just as a post script, I would like a 1/10 scale (maybe suspensionless) pan car with rubber tires and a 4 cell stick pack. The motor choice would be important. I don't know how appropriate the 27T 24 degree motors would be? In my opinion they are a little to tweaked as it is. What does everyone think?
12-03-2006, 11:38 AM
#65
Tech Elite
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MOOD;; feeling good not racing ,saving shed loads of money,lovely Tan i have aswell
Posts: 4,762
Originally Posted by beerbarron
Just as a post script, I would like a 1/10 scale (maybe suspensionless) pan car with rubber tires and a 4 cell stick pack. The motor choice would be important. I don't know how appropriate the 27T 24 degree motors would be? In my opinion they are a little to tweaked as it is. What does everyone think?
didn`t take off
1 reason the bumpy tracks really put paid to them
i did mention 27tt with 12 degree timing to slow them down
but they are using the less cell count to control speed (still good though
like to see 27t with 4 or 5 cell ,then the fast guy`s won`t stay in the 27t (to slow) & hopefully bugger off to 19t or Mod
have to wait & see for the UK
if it` goes pear shape then there be 5 classe`s in the NAT`s next year
12-03-2006, 03:20 PM
#66
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
they tried that in a series with the corrally pan car
didn`t take off
1 reason the bumpy tracks really put paid to them
i did mention 27tt with 12 degree timing to slow them down
but they are using the less cell count to control speed (still good though
like to see 27t with 4 or 5 cell ,then the fast guy`s won`t stay in the 27t (to slow) & hopefully bugger off to 19t or Mod
have to wait & see for the UK
if it` goes pear shape then there be 5 classe`s in the NAT`s next year
didn`t take off
1 reason the bumpy tracks really put paid to them
i did mention 27tt with 12 degree timing to slow them down
but they are using the less cell count to control speed (still good though
like to see 27t with 4 or 5 cell ,then the fast guy`s won`t stay in the 27t (to slow) & hopefully bugger off to 19t or Mod
have to wait & see for the UK
if it` goes pear shape then there be 5 classe`s in the NAT`s next year
Agreed about the handling on bumpy tracks. All of my racing is on indoor carpet with foam tires. Bumpy is not an issue. Also, agree that motors are too hot for novice. 4 cell could help.
A pan car is inexpensive and fast and precise for the cost involved. Simple, light and effective. Great on carpet, not so much for slick asphalt. Tamiya's $100 AWD kits are a decent compromise for asphalt. A dedicated pan car would be better for indoor carpet, IMO.
12-03-2006, 04:39 PM
#67
didn't trinity try to do this with that t-spec car? I never really paid a whole lot of attention to it, but wasn't it a shaft tc with independant suspension on all fours? I don't know how practical it would've been, in terms of cost, as a beginner's car. Anyone know more about it?
12-03-2006, 04:55 PM
#68
you want to fix touring car try this
stop the car of the month stuff
build some durabilty into the cars
stop the car of the month stuff
build some durabilty into the cars
12-05-2006, 02:59 PM
#69
Tech Master
iTrader: (26)
I believe it is the lack of TC racing facilities, especially in the Southern California area. The locations that are available are logistically in the outskirt areas, not centrally located. I realize that real estate cost are thru the roof and that is a large part of it. The initial investment outweighs the return for an individual, but with some help it could happen. I had made a suggestion awhile back on another post, that one possible solution would be Manufacture sponsored tracks where they might lease the hobby shop portion to another person/sell all brands. That way the track would be open to all brands of cars, and would give the sponsor/owner a place to sell their products, develop their cars. I believe the Manufacturer that steps up and gets involved in this scenario could possibly save the TC market in Southern California. There are at least 3 major car companies not counting the electronics / radio companies that are located in this area. And only one permanent facility with on road racing. If it closes,we will all be bashing our $400 cars in a school parking lot or in the street.
12-06-2006, 11:04 AM
#70
Actually about 70%+ of the RC Market has either world or US headquarters in So.Cal. Tamiya America has a Permanent On-Road track open to the public on Sat. (for those that own Tamiya cars.) and it is FREE and in a very nice coastal area, we even get an ocean breeze and have a view.
The biggest problem with tracks in this area is realstate costs and the fact that the tracks seldom promote a clean image to newcomers. many people complain to me on a weekly basis that there track is either temperary or a dump and that the adjacent hobby shop never carries what they need or inflates the price because they knw you need the part.
i personnally think if you are located in a large market and feel you have the capitol to stick with it and take the risk success could be had by following the recipe that Vans Shoes has done with there skateparks; http://www.vans.com/skateparks/
Maybe one day there could be a Team Orion R/C park but for now I think the Chassis Manufacturers or Distributors are making the largest profits so they would have to step up first.
The biggest problem with tracks in this area is realstate costs and the fact that the tracks seldom promote a clean image to newcomers. many people complain to me on a weekly basis that there track is either temperary or a dump and that the adjacent hobby shop never carries what they need or inflates the price because they knw you need the part.
i personnally think if you are located in a large market and feel you have the capitol to stick with it and take the risk success could be had by following the recipe that Vans Shoes has done with there skateparks; http://www.vans.com/skateparks/
Maybe one day there could be a Team Orion R/C park but for now I think the Chassis Manufacturers or Distributors are making the largest profits so they would have to step up first.
12-06-2006, 11:56 AM
#71
Their is no fixing RC Touring car racing as it stands, it's in a tail spin..The manufactures don't care about racing or racers, Racing or racers have about 2% of the total sales in the hobby industry. Racers also tend to do most of their shopping on line, So most hobby shops don't get any support from the racers, so they (the LHS) don't carry very much race oriented parts or very much TC stuff, So that forces the "racer" to shop on line, Sorta of like a dog chasing it's tail.. I have been on both sides of the fence on this one, I have had a track (I will be the first to admit that it was not perfect but it did have a roof and it was a place to race) I don't think I ever heard much good just a whole bunch of negativity coming from racers, New guy would show and try, older racers would snub the new guy and treat them like crap. So new guy (most of the time) would not come back. So if you guys want to see racing grow again...Act like it's fun, you might con a few noobs into believing your enjoying yourself...
I have been on both sides of the fence on this one, I have had a track (I will be the first to admit that it was not perfect but it did have a roof and it was a place to race) I don't think I ever heard much good just a whole bunch of negativity coming from racers, New guy would show and try, older racers would snub the new guy and treat them like crap. So new guy (most of the time) would not come back. So if you guys want to see racing grow again...Act like it's fun, you might con a few noobs into believing your enjoying yourself...
12-07-2006, 10:09 AM
#72
Those are actually good points there are in fact many manufacturers that do not care about racing and solely care about the hobbyist because that is where the money is and if they could afford to would even step up and try and compete with the Toy manufacturers. If you look close some are already making this move and many are the same people who are controlling most of the internet sales. It is business and for many companies if you look at there management they are business people not RC'ers and they are doing what they feel is priority. At Team Orion we are lucky to be Racers running the show (some would say it's like the patients running the asylum LOL!) but that gives us an edge to compete against other companies with unlimited budgets. Maybe the consumer if they became more loyal to the brands they use based on the people behind them and the companies philosophy would help the hobby as a whole?
I know that's just crazy talk as a customer will always tend to walk in wanting the cheapest best bargain regardless on quality and the LHS will push that product as they have the highest profit margin and the easiest sale. This is not something that can be changed from any angle other then the consumer.
Now back to Racers we care greatly about Racers because we are Racers. If we make junk then we have to run said junk at the next race and that would not be very fun. Maybe we are in the minority and maybe I could get a bigger salary increase if we just bought Drivers and released cheap junk to the masses but that is not our policy.
I know that's just crazy talk as a customer will always tend to walk in wanting the cheapest best bargain regardless on quality and the LHS will push that product as they have the highest profit margin and the easiest sale. This is not something that can be changed from any angle other then the consumer.
Now back to Racers we care greatly about Racers because we are Racers. If we make junk then we have to run said junk at the next race and that would not be very fun. Maybe we are in the minority and maybe I could get a bigger salary increase if we just bought Drivers and released cheap junk to the masses but that is not our policy.
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