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Old 12-01-2006, 11:43 AM   #16
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A track I used to race at had the absolute best beginer class, it used modified TCS spec rules, basically you ran HPI X patterns and a bigger pinion gear, you had to run a tamiya body the works it was a blast it was consistantly the biggest class. The track I race at now only has a mini cooper class and when my buddy and I brought his 10 year old brother along they wouldn't let him run his RWD mini in the class instead he had to run an old TC3 and get yelled at for not getting out of peoples way. I think the whole problem isn't ROAR its the tracks catering too much to hardcore racers and not enough to the little guy getting started. Every track needs to have a beginer class and stock the parts and kits and get poeple involved.
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Old 12-01-2006, 11:44 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by R.Dalnogare
Cant say i didnt warn you!
I should have listened!
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Old 12-01-2006, 11:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrOlds
I should have listened!
Hehe- I lost interest anyway as soon as you said F1 racing sucks... paleez.
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Old 12-01-2006, 12:14 PM   #19
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The critical factor is the ratio of time racing / to the time working on the car.

What is needed is a car/class which meets the following basic criteria

1. The car can hit any track barrier at any angle or be hit by another car at any angle, at full speed and not be damaged. Whether this is done by slowing the car down, stregthening the bumpers/suspension or deploying softer materials for track barriers. Broken car = bad experiece

2. After the race the car can have the dust and grit blown off with a compressed air can, maybe a drop or two of lubricant applied and then put in a shoe box and not touched until the next race. No motor, chassis, tire, battery maintenace required week to week to remain competitve.

3. All the tools, gauges, and parts to make adjustments to the car included with the car and simple to use.


The industry (both manufactures and hobby stores) have to set aside their normal mind set; which is to see every car as an opportunity to sell replacement parts or hop up parts and have one class, one kind of car whose prupose is not to generate more revenue (short term) but whose purpose is to draw in and keep new customers generating revenue (long term).

---------------------------------------------------------

There are numerous things that could be tried with race organization or class re-orgznization but ultimately they are re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, unless the industry focuses on an entry level car which is highly durable, reliable and very very low maintainece.
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Old 12-01-2006, 12:23 PM   #20
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I don't care if i get critisized for stating the truth about it being expensive to race in Novice class. The critisizers are more than likely the same sandbaggers. That's why they get offended. what I stated earlier is what I think is the main problem with TC racing today.
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Old 12-01-2006, 12:33 PM   #21
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IMO, the problem is between the "pro" class and the beginners. There appears to be two groups, the "pro" drivers with the big buck equipment that travel to regional and national level events. They use the local club races to tune up for the big races thay are going to compete. Then there is novice classes, which are usually easy to get in, but require money once you master them.

However there is the racers in the middle. They have been racing for a couple of years or more, but do not have the recources or time to go to the regional or national level events. They race for the fun of it. racing against the clock or themselves, looking for improvement. These guys love to go fender to fender, good tight racing. They keep a car for more than one season, so drastic rule changes are not welcome.

With this in mind, there are three possbile four things that all touring cars have in common to limit speed. First, there is the "run out" since the internal gearing varies between cars and limiting a class to a specific chassis is fine until a person shows up at a race with the "wrong" chassis. Second is the tires, this a performance and cost limiting factor. Third of course would be the motor. The fourth factor would be the bodies. a couple of years a go, I did not beleive that the "door stop" bodies made a difference, but they do.

I have withnessed this observing my local track and two nearby tracks/clubs. The racers tend to take a set of rules TCS or ROAR and modify them to appeal to broadest group of racers. Of course, there are the "pro stock" and 19 turn which stick to established rules because that is what the racers in those classes want.

If look at the "good old days" of touring car racing and mini racing, it usually was before the rules became standardized and the local club organizer was trying to appeal to greatest number of drivers. If the local level stays mindful of this and lets the commercial/national/international organizations do thier thing, then the local racer will be happy.

Last edited by volracer; 12-01-2006 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 12-01-2006, 12:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrOlds
There is also a very good thread going in the racing forum about some just for fun races being held at the Tamiya track-check that out-that's the sort of thing I am trying to get people to think about.
As the person who organized said race let me try and get this back on topic as I admire what you are trying to do.

• First off this has zero to do with ROAR those that want to bring them into this there a ton of threads already on this topic let ROAR live or die by it's own sword.

• Club/Parking lot racing is a local phenomenom(sp?) and should be treated as such. What is liked on the East may not be what is hot in the west etc.

•*If you want to limit something limit the motors and final drive gearing not the batteries limiting batteries just created more issues and costs.

• Cutting down grip is a great idea but only for the intermediate drivers as raw rookies will not feel motivated if they can't even get around the track.

•Chassis costs are the biggest problem as it was said earlier in this thread. It's hard to get a rookie intrested is they feel they have to have Pro-grade equipment to race Stock. The answer to this is what I have done for my local racing series I do not allow certain materials like Carbon Graphite and aluminum chassis pieces unless they are in areas like Motor mounts or shock towers where it is more of a durability issue rather then performance. This allows the RTR guys very little investment to get there cars up to competative level. Haivng Pure RTR class is rough because rarely will even a rokie keep his car stock and having the ruling allows somebody with big budget to come in a run a new car every weekend and that throse out the idea yet again (it happens trust me)

If you look at the Tamiya TCS series you will see a very healthy National series with expanding classes and plenty of attendance the reason behinf this is not only that is is a one manufacturers class which limits the choices but it has destinct classes that are very different and promote scale realism in both the way the cars look and handle . The GT1 class is very similar to what most people would consider mod and yet even though some of the factors that people blame are not involved:

-It does not have pro drivers
-It does not have a cost limit
-there is still a tire choice
-no prototype parts are allowed and everything legal has to be avaialable
on the market
-They use 6 cells (funny enough there is rarely an ESC failure?)

Yet it is still one of the smallest classes why? Because non of the above is the real issue the real issue is the sport of racing and making it available and fun the other classes are more fun with less set-up and maintenance allowing more enjoyment of the actual driving and the socializing aspect of the events.

I have raced both TCS and Open Mod at Reedy and though Reedy was more of a rush and ending up in the D-Main was not bad considering I treated like a club race had I tried really hard and tuned my car and run new tires after every run like everyone else I would have probably ended up in the B but still had less fun. When I raced TCS I would treat it the same and I would end up in the top 5 every regional and I never finished outside the A main at Nationals but back then I was more stressed about it even though I put in the same effort in the end did not have as much fun.

What was the big difference? ME when I ran TCS I expected to do good and was worried I would not when I ran the Reedy and didn't expect anything and I placed 3rd in the D and didn't care I had fun racing and didn't worry about any trophy or result. I think the importants of having to win is a huge phsycological issue we as the RC community needs to address. Sure if you are Pro and have sponsors you want to do well for them so you can continue to race at that level, fine but that is the smallest percentage of the entire industry the vast majority of us need to take to step back and realise that winning is fun and it happens to the best and the worst of us but at the end of the day an IFMAR world championship will not even get you a cup of coffee out side the fence of the track.

Here is the answer to all the problems with TC in one sweet sentence:

If you like racing then worry about having people and attracting people to race with rather then a personal quest to make a class that you can win at.


This is the core of the problem.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:08 PM   #23
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We had an experience at a track where we used to race 18th scale indoors. Nice location, good parts supply, good group of drivers. We were racing HPI RS4's. Only car available at the time. Would draw 25 to 30 cars a night. We had separate classes and people would move up according to their results. Then came the new and improved XRAY 18th scale, after about 4 months the numbers dropped to the point that no one races there anymore. Competition got out of control, cheating was rampant. The original cars attracted new people including myself. The new car thinned the herd and everyone walked away.

I have since moved to 10th scale electric touring. The problems I see with this scale and the tracks in the area is the lack of tracks close to home, usually means spending an entire day for 3 qualifiers and a main, 20 minutes of racing. Also the actual loss of "Racing Experience" due to IFMAR qualifying, so when everyone gets to the main they think the will win the race in the first turn. Most shops are not kept fully supplied, can't count the number of times I have tried to purchase something only to find out they were out of stock. So, I turn to the internet, get the item quicker and most of the time cheaper. And this in turn hurts the hobby shop. Another thing I have noticed is the quality of help behind the counter. They are busy getting their own car ready or put the experinced drivers needs ahead of your needs. We have all had an experience at a fast food location that can't get the order correct because they really don't care. And if you complain, there is the possibility they will spit on your food. I am too old and impatient to put up with it, so I will walk away and spend my money elsewhere. Same thing with hobby shops.

I really don't know the answer but would be willing to join a club, pay dues, maintain a track, if it would help keep things alive. Every time I purchase a car, I am hesitant, because I don't know if there will be a place to race.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:52 PM   #24
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I also race 1/18 scale and it was fun until people got board. My problem with racing is their is no true national champion. each region should send people who qualify to the nationals, not the guy that lives closest to the track and can afford to travel.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:56 PM   #25
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svines1972 You should come out to Tamiya one Saturday. It is free all you need is a Tamiya car and you can run all day from 10AM to 4PM every Saturday!

Drivers there tend to be more into fun then trophies.
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"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."
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Old 12-01-2006, 04:00 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigb11
I also race 1/18 scale and it was fun until people got board. My problem with racing is their is no true national champion. each region should send people who qualify to the nationals, not the guy that lives closest to the track and can afford to travel.
Do people in your area race because they enjoy racing or do they just want to be a National Champion?

I think I am going to start selling national champ trophies as it seems these would sell hotter then the cars themselves.
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"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."
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Old 12-01-2006, 04:05 PM   #27
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This is all moronic, there's nothing wrong with touring car racing the way it is now.
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Old 12-01-2006, 04:24 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eforer
This is all moronic, there's nothing wrong with touring car racing the way it is now.
i second that.
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Old 12-01-2006, 04:31 PM   #29
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NO ONE WILL EVER MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY! It all comes back to what JasonC said; if you're not having fun, don't do it! And Groff, I miss RCO too

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrOlds
That's all-all the other equipment is the same.The chassis,electronics,radio,support equipment is all the same for every class and at every level from the weekend hobbyist to the pros at the worlds.
Honestly Olds, do you even believe this yourself? When have you ever seen an entry-level rc driver with the kind of equipment (dynos, setup jigs, cases upon cases of motors and batts, etc.) that the pro's, or even the fast weekend guys have?
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Old 12-01-2006, 04:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeR
Hehe- I lost interest anyway as soon as you said F1 racing sucks... paleez.
But it does Suck !!!
WTCC, DTM & BTCC racing is far far better then anything out there
apart from lawn tractor racing that looks good
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