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Old 11-24-2006, 08:03 AM   #1
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Default Stock Brushless Alternatives

Anyone else sell a stock brushless motor? I like the idea (though I don't want to debate it) but REALLY don't want to send Novak any money. Anywhere else to go?
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:34 AM   #2
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Mamba Max 4600 with the smallest pinion you can mesh is pretty comparable to a stock motor.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamge
Mamba Max 4600 with the smallest pinion you can mesh is pretty comparable to a stock motor.
It would still be much fatser... Right now only Novak is winding a comparable motor... I run the 13.5 in my 12th scale and it is very comparable to a tuned stock....
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Old 11-24-2006, 10:02 AM   #4
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Tekin will release a stock brushless motor soon
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Old 11-24-2006, 10:09 AM   #5
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Closest I have seen are Novaks 13.5 and they seem to be just 1-2 tenths faster than a good tuned brushed motor...
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Old 11-24-2006, 10:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCristo
Tekin will release a stock brushless motor soon
That is what I wanted to hear. Good deal since I'm waiting for their brushless ESC as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tag
Closest I have seen are Novaks 13.5 and they seem to be just 1-2 tenths faster than a good tuned brushed motor...
I am trying to avoid (like the plague) purchasing another Novak product. I had 3 of the GTB's and 2 of them blew up on me. 3rd one, I returned to the shop. Needless to say, Novak will not get another penny from me. Their customer service is great...I wish their products were half as good.
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Old 11-27-2006, 05:23 AM   #7
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if brushless motors become the norm in the future as stock motors, how will they be rated? what i mean is, novak advertises their stock equivalent in brushless turns, but does brushless turns work the same way as brushed turns where two different companies having a motor with the same turn will be decently similar? castle creations rates their brushlesses in kv, and novak did too with their 4300 and 5800, but is that rating more accurate? is a mamba max 5700 pretty close to novaks 5800?
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Old 11-27-2006, 08:54 AM   #8
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Unfortunately, most people rate the motors by turns or kv (rpms per volt), but there is only 1 true way to rate all motors, and that is by watts of power produced at 7.2V.

Kv rating is no good because it takes torque completely out of the equation. It's a rating with no load. It gives you an idea, but it's not an accurate way to measure power of a motor. It is a common misconception that RPM determines speed. You need to look at both RPM and Torque to determine the power of a motor.

As Big Jim used to say:
746 Watts = 1 electric horsepower
"Horsepower is horsepower! Speed then, is just a matter of gearing. HP (Watts) = RPM x Torque"

Here is Novak's brushless motors Wattage ratings:


A good example of how Kv isn't a good way of determining power. Look at the SS5800 motor and the HV4.5 motor. Both produce similar Kv (5000 and 4800 rpm per volt). Yet the power is very different. The SS5800 motor produces 225 Watts of power (1/3 Horsepower), while the HV4.5 produces a whopping 750 Watts of power (1 Horsepower!).

Another point to drive this home further. Hank from Hobbytalk was talking with Jim Campbell, the President of Tekin, while at the Chicago Hobby Show. Jim said that he could make a 13.5 turn motor that would perform like a Novak 7.5 if he wanted. Using a Kv rating wouldn’t work because the motors he has been developing can pull a LOT more gear then the current Novak motors.

It is my hope that ROAR should define the max power allowed in each motor class. That way, it doesn't matter if you use brushed, brushless, bearings, bushings, magnets, or any future technology. Horsepower is horsepower. The laws of physics state that this is the only true way of determining how fast motors are.

For 540 sized motors:
Stock motor class = maximum of 100 Watts of power at 7.2V
SuperStock motor class = maximum of 200 Watts of power at 7.2V
Modified motor class = unlimited watts of power
(or some variation like this)

Last edited by James35; 11-27-2006 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 01-04-2007, 08:26 AM   #9
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I think my questions are pretty related to this topic.

The local track allows the Novak 13.5 in stock racing. Can the 13.5 motor be used with any brushless esc? Are their any lighter options than the GTB? I want to switch to the brushless set up but my electronics side is already pretty heavy.
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porschejim911
I think my questions are pretty related to this topic.

The local track allows the Novak 13.5 in stock racing. Can the 13.5 motor be used with any brushless esc? Are their any lighter options than the GTB? I want to switch to the brushless set up but my electronics side is already pretty heavy.
All Novak brushless motor are sensered motor, that is the word you have to remember....brushless motor has sensered and senserless 2 kind. Novak is the sensered kind....Mamba and others are the other kind (senserless).

You must use a sensered ESC to work with the Novak Brushless, however, I have no idea beside GTB, which ESC will work with 13.5 (Sphere may be..?)
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porschejim911
I think my questions are pretty related to this topic.

The local track allows the Novak 13.5 in stock racing. Can the 13.5 motor be used with any brushless esc? Are their any lighter options than the GTB? I want to switch to the brushless set up but my electronics side is already pretty heavy.
The LRP sphere speedo's are both lighter than the GTB. The competition is probably better for racing but the standard Sphere is probably fine for the 13.5
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tag
Closest I have seen are Novaks 13.5 and they seem to be just 1-2 tenths faster than a good tuned brushed motor...
I would have to disagree with this from what I've seen its the other way around, but I'm still new to the brushless world I might be missing a trick or two
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:35 PM   #13
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Ive got a LRP SPHERE ESC, I can run a Novak 13.5 with it cant I?
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:37 PM   #14
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Yes. You can run any sensored motor with it.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:38 PM   #15
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I doubt even if they come up with stock rules, that the tekin would be legal, as they are all delta wound, which is against ROAR rules.....and I am pretty sure the stock rules will be consistent with the modified rules...

This of course, if Jim stock to his statement of not caring if they were ROAR legal...


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