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Old 11-25-2006, 01:08 AM   #16
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If I were a track owner, it may be in the best interest of track owners to get together to possibly discuss the business practices of the manufacturers. Possibly work something out where the manufacturers can either co-op some advertising, which i imagine they do ( i dont actually know) or help subsidize track owners in some way, shape or form.
Ive been into rc cars ever since I can remember. Suppose im one of the fortunate ones to remember the "golden" days of rc racing back in the 80's . I was still a kid back then. I would have to say one of the things that I think is a major difference between now and then is not so much cost, back in the 80's people may not remember but some of these kits were $100 plus dollars just for the car...back thenthat was a lot of money...so the price is relatively the same. But I think what has changed and possibly hurt the actual racing aspect of this hobby/sport is the diversity of products available to newcomers. Back when I was a kid; if you wanted a "real" rc car and you were just starting out, you really only had one choice and that was electric. Sure there were gas cars out there but gas back then was kinda only operated by "enthusiasts"..meaning the only guy who had one was pretty much an expert so to speak. I dont have to go over the history as most here know more than I, but there are just so many options to choose nowadays that it just divides up an already relatively small pool of people that are into our sport that much more.
I think Tamiya has the right idea with the TCS races. Losi i think could make a major move in the right direction if it kept its XXX-Brushless model still available and possibly make a recommended kit consisting of decent but somewhat inexpensive chargers and batteries that could only be used for that class and run a Losi sponsered race every month or something. They have the parts support and everything to run a successful program.With their new tc coming out, that kicks ass, them promoting the brushless movement with brushless rtr's, they could have a golden opportunity to make something happen both on a novice and expert level.
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:38 AM   #17
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My local track owner is so dedicated. He advertised a commercial on cable tv on weeknigts during primetime. Promotes every year in a booklet that the city prints whch has all the local activities for the summer. I've seen alot of new faces at our track.
Keep up the good work Dale.
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasupacat1
My local track owner is so dedicated. He advertised a commercial on cable tv on weeknigts during primetime. Promotes every year in a booklet that the city prints whch has all the local activities for the summer. I've seen alot of new faces at our track.
Keep up the good work Dale.
www.summitrcraceway.com
Thanks for the feed back. I hope we can get more thoughts on this. And maybe we can open the MFG's eyes and start a new way of doing things.
WE have this same thread at rcracing.com. It's are local racing thread in northern california.
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Old 11-26-2006, 08:04 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by bs6ef
I just hope that people take notice of what you have written, because i have seen attendance levels at two of my local tracks drop to the point where one track has closed down because they now only have 5 members and the others track is now only open every other weekend
This really stinks cus i now have a 5hour round trip if i want to race at a decent track indoors every other weekend
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should i post the pic arron sent me this morning, it would get people interested in rc!!

really Juan is right, where are all the people that buy rc?????






















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there all playing with monster trucks, 75% of the rc hobby. An hobby shop near by sold almost 500 revos last year.




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Well, BlackKat has more experience than his 17 years dicatate he should

I've been hearing since I got into the hobby that us racers account for a very small amount of R/C consumer population. I heard figures like 4 "Bashers" for every "Racer" and didn't even believe that for a while. After helping out at a local hobby shop for a few months, I saw the truth first hand. The true ratio at that time (A year and a half ago) was more like 9 or 10 "bashers" for every 1 "racer" who set foot through the door. This might not be the same at other hobby shops, but this is what I experienced first hand.

I'd be curious to hear what some of the employees down at NorCal or Hobbytown have to say on that matter. Has it changed, or is it still that way?

The real reasons racing is dying and bleeding .....well, my experience tells me to shut-up here

PEACE OUT =Dan



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Interesting observation Juan.

I would agree with you that the way this Hobby/sport is promoted is a little backwards in 99 percent of the areas that RC racing is available and the manufacturers of most major rc products aren't helping the situation.

But as Jake has already posted the cost of advertising is very large.Thats a problem. The cost to do so for lets say a shop,with a race program would eventually hurt thier buisness in the long run. Now take a race program thats not directly linked to a shop and this could become increasingly difficult because of the exact thing your bringing up.Lack of attendance for the most part equals less revenue,which in turn equals no money for things such as advertising regularly in local media. If people honestly think that most clubs make a ton of money,they are sorely mistaken.Depending upon the clubs overhead,alot of these clubs just have enough to pay what they payed out to have a club race. It adds up quickly.


The so called pie of disposable income today for most people has potentially become more segmented. This in part has to do with the increasing amount of options in regard to recreational activities outside of RC and the money it cost to be involved in them. Rc racing is expensive by nature. No matter how you try to get people in,its still going to cost about 300.00-400.00 to become involved in racing. For most people they will agree that thats quite a bit of money for a beginner to invest in something that they may not even like over the long run. When we were all running in Fremont,we had a special package for potential customers to help them become involved with racing easily. Even if you bought a car from a competing local shop,we still gave you a free raceday with proof of purchase for beginners. It worked well but this was truely a short term solution.We as onroad racers are truely on the decline right now. We are finally seeing the backlash of offroad popularity and the RTR trend. With the ever increasing cost of onroad cars and the equipment it cost to be in competitive racing, I could go on and on with reasons for the decline. Have you looked lately at every RC magazine and what they promote and what races they cover thoroughly?


All the points brought up are valid,but in the end if we really take a look at the problem,it doesnt even start with local racing.It goes much deeper. Start there and we can actually make headway.






offroad.


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We have ads in the local news papers . Maybe we should start listing race days and times aswell. Good point Juan.









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Someone please tell Jan to stop wasting her money advertising in the CSU East Bay Pioneer...












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Funny thing is we get people who have come in from that add Brandon!
offroad.


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Well....people have money...they just aren't interested in hobbies. I know a ton of 18-22 year olds that make $8-9 per hour and line up hours in advance for cool clothes and $200 sneakers. Some of them don't even sell the sneakers on ebay....They actually wear them....Face it...R/C, Hobbies, Models,etc is something people did a 1-2-3 generations ago. Today it is too hard to get people into any hobby related stuff that involves sitting is a room and looking at a instruction manual. Thats why people buy the RTR. They want it easy....just buy it and use. They get bored 20 mins later and go to the mall, play PS3, or whatever. Its 2006....not 1982 anymore.

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I think John hit it on the head. The problem is much deeper than the small race tracks. Small track owners make no money. I am sure Norcal is doing well, they have practice every day and a shop to help with promotion (which by the way, I think they will be reconnized as the shop who got brushless going) Not to mention weekly racing.

I tried to start some new Spec racing this year, all the hobby shops would do is let us place a flyer in the window. In my local hobby shop and I watched someone asking about on-road cars and I could not believe my ears!!! Not one thing was said about our spec class or SCRC. All the clubs need to be on the same page and all hobby shops need to be on that page as well, but here is where it falls apart, most general hobby shops, not high end racing shops, could care less about thier racer clients. They make thier money in RTR low end stuff. I have had long talks to owners about this. They do not want to put in energy to grow a tiny category for them.

If we as track owners ran it like a business (the track) we would have never of started it. We did it for the love of the hobby. Now look at where we are doing it, in Northern Califonia where land is expensive and hard to find. We have to find land off the beaten path in parking lots with no foot traffic.

The answer is a county park that would be willing to put in a track, similar to how skate parks go in. If all directors came together to convince the county that it would pull kids off the streets and give people something safe and productive to do, they might go for it. You would get traffic and parents might be more inclined to involve thier kid in it. This would take a major movement from many not just one "director to step up".

Jaun is right, this hobby is hurting for new people. I hope someone who has a ton of time, money and no job steps up to task. The sad truth is it is just not worth it in the eyes of a track owner to invest too much more effort. I say we support the hell out of Norcal, Allspeed and JPH to give them the power to make it change. They are the ones with the track, shop and the industry behind them in thier back pocket. SCRC, Stockton, RCcar, Rams and any other track should keep working together as a team.

I wish the industry luck!! And I will see you at the races..

Dave


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John the last paragraph of your first reply is what I'm talking about. If you have a srtong idea on what needs to happen, I think everyone will listen and try to help.

Aaron Biner, I know there are plenty of kids with enough cash to get started racing or buy a dirt bike or SHOE's whatever. I bet most don't know about tcs racing. Free trip to Japan and all the fun trying to get there. I know you can buy a ticket and fly there, but it's not the same as saying that your the USA's national champion and I'm representing the USA at the Tamiya World Championships.

I won a world chapionship when I was 14 yrs. old. It was an exsperiance I will never forget. And as a 16 yr. old my team was competeing in the American Legion world series again. Where we finished 5th in the nation. Competition is FUN. You just have to find a nitch like what your doing, and have a solid game plan. The rest will fall into place.



Question for Hicks. If it doesn't start with the local seen, then where does it start? Tracks only use roar as a guide line. They don't follow roar exactly how roar wants everyone to. Shoot, norcal hobbies started the brushless craze and thats not roar legal. But, who cares. It what brings in new racers, and they seem to really enjoy it. More track time, way less maintence and much cheaper. I'll bet with a 3300 stick pack and someone's 13.5 stock brushless( I don't own one yet) I can TQ with that combo on any given day. Yes, even against you AY.

If norcal spent so much money to make that top notch facility like thay did. They should really try to bring new spectators every week. And try to find a way to get them started. The shop and the people that run it, are basicly salesman. And as salesman you generally have one shot at closing the deal( getting some started in the hobby) get there name and phone #'s , Addresses so you can send them special promo's. Sound excited when talking to customers. Have the special of the month available for test drives.( meaning say a TA05 or the tub cyclone with a 13.5 system in and two batteries, a good inexspesive charger and remote with just enough functions that they don't have to go out and buy a new one later. These customers will be blown away how fast this set-up is. Now, you as a salesman need to close the sale. If you want something bad enough, ya'll always find a way. My first real race car was a yokomo MR4tec. It was already put together, which I really liked, so don't be afraid to open a kit and build it so the new customer can hit the track right away. Just keep all the packaging to give to them.

I don't know , just some idea's.

Corrally USA-EnvyMotorports-JWerks-poleposition


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ugh... DS you rule. To many fingers, and not enough hearts to make our racing atmosphere in norcal a fun place to race.<br>
<br>


Its never the tracks fault...




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one of the problems i've noticed about rc tracks in general is that they are typically owned / run by people who have full time careers, other interests, etc... this applies in general, not any specific shops or tracks.


there is much more involved in starting any business than just coming up with enough money to get the doors open and some product on the shelves. you need enough money to operate, pay staff, etc... for 6 months to a year without turning a profit. it also needs to be your full time job. take a small business management class and maybe a marketing class at your local community college. it's a serious investment of time, money, and resources and should be treated as that instead of an extension of your hobby.

here in Sacramento, we used to have 2 off-road tracks. Sacramento Mini-Wheels (later became Finest RC) and Hobby Warehouse. both tracks raced on the same days and times, but each track had a very full program. both owners operated them as businesses and both were very successful. yeah, it's a different time these days and not as many people are into the hobby, but there was quite a bit of racer turnaround back then too. new faces showing up all the time. unortunately, both places were bought by other owners who didn't manage the places as well. even at that, Hobby Warehouse (then Hawks RC at the time) still had a full program up to the day they shut the doors. these tracks had halloween races, show up in a costume and race for free; free race on your birthday; tq your class and win a motor; mail-out coupons; all kinds of crazy schemes to bring people in and keep them there.

equipment really isn't that much more expensive these days, a rc10 team kit cost mid $200's and needed a crap load of hop-ups to be competetive. batteries were almost as much and didn't have nearly the useful life of the new stuff. motors are a little more expensive, but those also have longer lives.

i guess what i'm trying to say is: once you take a second mortgage out on your house, a small business loan, whatever it takes to get the $$, treat your investment as a business rather than a hobby and do whatever it takes to get a good return on your money.



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As someone whoís been in and out of this hobby for the past 15-20 years Iíve seen the changes in racer turn out too. It used to be that you had to get the to track early as hell to find a decent pit spot. When Norcal opened I decided to get back into racing after 1Ĺ years out of it. Here is a first class facility, with a great shop, and the best permanent track in the Bay Area, but in the few races Iíve been too, it wasnít really crowded at all. Not like it used to be. So I too wondered what was happeningÖ


So far, everyone pretty much nailed it I think. Itís not the lack of money or the expense of the hobby. Look at how many people are willing to wait in a line to buy a PS3 at $500+ bucks a pop, or buy a video game at $50 each. Like someone said, people just arenít into spending a lot of time building things with their hands. Does anyone build models any more? Forget that; a RTR gives you instant satisfaction. Race it for an hour then move on to something else. RC is a related hobby Ė and a natural extension of model building. Build a model as a kid, build and race RC cars when you get older. Now people are into video games, portable music players, cell phones, the web Ė all stuff that lets you sit around and veg out to have fun.


Yet I do see people at the track and in stores that are genuinely interested in the hobby, but need a little nudge in the right direction. I think, going to a track and seeing all the pit tables and equipment is intimidating as hell. Maybe they just donít know how to start or what type of equipment they need. Itís just too complicated and time consuming to go the next step. And I donít mean to point a finger at anyone, but not all racers are the friendliest people to just walk up to and start a conversation.


So how about we make it a little easier and less intimidating for someone to go to that first race. Maybe a shop can put together a brochure or simple manual on what you need to get started. This can include a quick summary of:


Type of RC cars, motors, radio systems
Recommended charger, batteries
What you need to bring to a race, like chair, drinks, power strip, basic stuff
What to do when you get to the track, like sign in, figure out how to install a transponder, frequency clips
Track and racing etiquette, how to turn marshal
Racing primer such as what is a B main, A main etc

Then you can hand out a flyer with a firm race schedule a couple of months in advance since many beginners donít go to a website like this to find out what race is going on in the coming week. Maybe there is one that I didnít notice, but I havenít seen any posted race schedules in the store.


Lastly how about a designated person from the shop to watch out for the beginners at a race, give them a hand setting their car up, recommend parts, etc. Also, maybe some of the experienced people can be a buddy or something, to get them through 1st day questions.








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Russ,

Agreed!! Most of us (track owners) all have day jobs and do it for the love of it . But, we give a place to race, that's our job. We can place flyers all over the world, but if the shops do not latch onto the tracks, it will continue to decline. But, to say the track is responsible for the decline in racing or bad business skills in track ownership are what is killing this hobby, I disagree. I do not know how many of you have run a race program, but it is not that hard, it's just a lot of work. The business plan goes like this:

-Tell everyone you know and place flyers at all shops (which no one sees) -Build the best track system you can. -create a great environment and system in which to run the race program. -Be consistant in your actions and dates.

There's not much more you can do until you have the backing of a shop or two.

I think this post is great, it could wake up some new ideas and get the ball rolling again. I would like to know what people think down in LA, are thier turnouts as bad as ours??

Dave





Juan Aveytia
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DS, you make some good points. But, what I'm trying to really say is, (if the local hobby shops won't support our programs, then screw them). Ripon was awesome in the past. They created their own hobby shop at the track. I run my own business also. I never count on anyone but myself to get things done. So, what I mean is, Why would you put the blame on the local hobby shops for not supporting your track. Take some kind of accountability for your racer turn out. I think the owners of the tracks should really figure out a national marketing plan/ structure to approaching the public and getting people excited about this great sport. What do ya think of this Idea? What does roar do with all the money they generate? Is it possible they can start the campaine?Corrally USA-EnvyMotorports-JWerks-poleposition


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As a newbie to competitive rc racing (plan on racing in the RAMS series next year) I can honestly say that the biggest turn off is a topic that I have seen brought up many a time: There are no permanent on road tracks and if there are, they don't cater to everyone e.g. 1/10 but not 1/8, 1/5. If an when I start racing, the only choice I will have is RAMS at Mission College. Now I don't know about you guys but if some body see's me driving my 1/8th scale car at the parking lot and asked me where I race it, what reaction would you expect when you tell them " I drive 40miles to race at a parking lot"? That will turn off everyone but the most hardcore enthusiast. How many parents, teens, anyone, do you think would want to invest $500-1500+ dollars on a competitve nitro car only to find out that they have to drive40+ miles just to race at a parking lot? As DS said, someone with a lot of time, money and no job needs to open a true dedicated facility centralized around the Bay Area (San Jose). I have the time and no job covered at the moment, just gotta work on that darn money thing.

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Martin: A few months ago, a pal of mine was serious about possibly starting something up here in San Jose. I lobbied like all hell for it, I really thought it would be a good thing. Unfortunetely, a bunch of guys from Fremont, Union City and other cities said "No, we don't need a track in San Jose" Since there wasn't enough of us up here on the boards lobbying for what we wanted in our city, a bunch of other guys who live in other cities decided for us.

Thats THE TRUTH...and MAN am I going to get my nuts roasted for telling it like it happened! Flame away!

Dan Z. aka: The Black Kat

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Juan Aveytia
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I don't have the answers Martin, but your plan sounds to much like what most people are already doing. I'm trying to find away to make people want to come every week to race. Draw new talent in, from around the whole country. I still think your thinking to small. Think big, crazy ideas that might work with the right people can make this happen.Corrally USA-EnvyMotorports-JWerks-poleposition
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Old 11-26-2006, 08:09 AM   #20
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Still Bill
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A few thoughts...

1) Free racing for first timers...Let them run anything with four wheels. Still need to get ROAR license.

2) $10 per race for beginners (for 3-5 races so race tracks/directors would need to keep count).

Consider it an investment in the future.

Bill

If my wife says it's OK for me to play....


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DS, i wasn't saying that track owners are responsible for the hobby dying, sorry if it came off that way. just trying to provide some constructive observations.

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Dan Zaring
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Bill: I'm not saying your ideas are bad but I think you might not be looking at what we should be. Before people spend $500 to get into a hobby, they think...can I afford to do this for a while, will I be wanting to do this for a while and will I be doing this a while. The hobby, as it is structured, is not structured to attract people to stay with us in the long run.

We not only need to change things so people are attracted to the hobby, we need to change them so people who are attracted and join, stay with it.

How?

Dan Z. aka: The Black Kat

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DS
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Juan,

I could not agree with you more and I commend you on starting this discussion. I also hope everyone can see all the remarks from each of us as telling it how we have experienced it, not saying it can not be done.

I was trying to get someone in Santa Cruz to start a shop to support SCRC and maybe find a place in Watsonville with dirt to create an off-raod track as well. I think if someone had a spot, they could buy one of those portable construction units and throw up a shop in the middle of dirt field, create the best off-road track on the coast, and everyone would come. Then grow into whatever it is, to promote the hobby. I also think putting a track in a local park could work too. But the bottom line is money and I do not think the return looks obvious enough for someonoe to say "lets go for it" and bet the farm on it, unless they are backed by someone or already have money. This will really take someone special. All of which caused SCRC to rely on the local shops...

I have a totaly different career I am working on and SCRC was for fun.

We need Norcal to keep building the track/shop/racer relationship with the racers. John Hicks has the biggest following I have seen and he did it with a hobbyshop and track........ Sorry John, but when his "Crew" stoped coming to SCRC, electric died for us.... I wish Ruben had a shop, he would also be a great hobby builder.

DAn- the TRUTH is that you guys got on a dumb web-site and did whatever people told you to do. Do you think Donald Trump walks around asking for permission or acceptance??? No, he calculates his risk, market share, liability and goes for it, or cans the idea. You guys decided for your selves. WHat you obvious did not realize is that we did not need just another track and still dont, we need a way to get new people in, and a shop/track/right people could make it happen. Norcal is doing it, but it will take time, years.

Keep up the ideas and maybe the right idea will come out of this whole eye tiring topic..

DS


Dan Zaring
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Dave: My point was...NorCal is good for the hobby in Union City, and good for the hardcore guys from other cities. Is it any good for someone moderately intrested in Sunnyvale or Milpitas? Is it good for little Johnny in Campbell who gets an R/C car for christmas? Some people might say yes, I think the answer would have to be no

Think of traveling, money and time as effort. You earn money as a result of effort, traveling is an effort because you do it to gain effort, time is an effort because time is money and money as an effort. Catch my drift? R/C costs a lot of net effort (money, traveling and time) If we can reduce some of those efforts, it will bring the net effort of enjoying R/C down.

Look at what the average joe does to have fun in his/her spare time. There is not a lot of effort involved involved in watching TV or video games (similar costs to getting into video games as there is for getting into R/C...) The video games are close by and don't cost a whole lot to enjoy over time (maybe 2 or 3 $50 games a month...vs. a $30 set of tires every race, $20 entry fee every race, $20 body and other odds and ends needed to run an R/C program over a month) No work is required either. Wait 3 minutes for it to load as opposed to wrenching for a couple hours.

R/C by nature is at a disadvantage. In addition to the Transmitter-Mahal (NorCal) which is the best thing that has happened to date for the die-hard R/C hobbyist, I believe we need programs for the less serious hobbyists who want to put forth less effort. the lazy ones as some might see it.

Dan Z. aka: The Black Kat

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Posted: Nov-25-2006 12:42AM

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Its time to bring back superten




Jimmy D
Werks Racing, Kyosho, Power Racing


martsrc
Total Posts: 12
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 07-09-06
Posted: Nov-25-2006 03:21AM
Edited: Nov-25-2006 03:31AM

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Dan: I believe I e-mailed your friend regarding a possible track in San Jose. Didn't he have an ad in Craigslist requesting assistance? Did he ever have a location and financial backing planned out?

Juan: I don't want to sound arguementive but thinking small is when you buid an rc track that only accommodates 1/10 scale and smaller vehicles with rarely a nitro program to boot. That is what I have heard about the newly opened Fremont track. Don't get me wrong, it's great that at least someone put some effort into building a permanent track but the location is a little off the beaten path and it targets only a fraction of the hobby. A track needs to be built in a more populated area (e.g. San Jose) for it to really have an impact in this hobby. It's great that you wish to rally around some of the tracks in your area to prevent their demise and for that I salute you but you must think of the bigger picture and not just your smaller piece of the world. Too bad you or any body else were not around to help prevent the closure of the Hobbytown racing facilities in Gilroy.


[email protected]
Total Posts: 5901
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 02-06-01
Posted: Nov-25-2006 07:37AM

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Very good thread, very good points, what's the answer ...I have no idea!

I know that while I was helping Billy run SWR while he was trying to get his new retail hobby shop up and running we tried things from discounts to new racers, "speeder bucks", different hours, changing days, times, etc for racing ...I even attempted relationships with other tracks to try and share the racer base, and no matter what it all seemed to come down to the same group of racers racing the track. We did see some new faces prior to the Nationals and some additional racers after the Nationals that would attend the races, but there was only about a 2 month time frame after we started back up until I went to indoors for the IIC.

Advertising, although probably the *best* answer for new blood, is so flippin expensive! I had looked into the in theatre advertising, and if I recall correctly in our area it was like $1500/mo for 10 "views" a week on 2 theatres ...pricing just keeps climbing up from there for more "views", more theatres, first run movie exposures, balh, blah, blah. R/C magazines, I know from the nats advertising is $2,000 a month for a full page add. Newspapers, I have no idea what adverstising costs are, but I do know we've have the press tribune (local paper) come out a couple of times an do stories and there was no new turnouts related to it.

I do know that with Billy at the new retail site, he does get a lot of "additional" traffic than he used to (i.e. gas guys, off road guys, helicopter, plane, boat guys ...hell even kids buying slinky pets) ...he always has the 01 ROAR nats video running (well except when Judge Judy is on), and most everyone that goes in ther knows that he has a 10th scale asphalt track ...and that didn't seem to bringin any new racers to speak of.

Next year, when Billy moves the hobbyshop back to the track, I believe he is planning on doing what he can to increase the race attendance, maybe now that he will have additinal walk in traffic not related to the track (the gas guys, off road guys, helicopter, plane, boat guys ...hell even kids buying slinky pets) and the see the track first hand with cars running on it, we can get some new blood excited and interested in the hobby.

Like, I said, all good points, but what is the answer ...no se


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Just another slow ass blue collared whiny Roseville bandwagon jumping baffon that won't help out of towners.
Click the holly scroll to see the entire excuse database
Click the golden gear for the new and improved gear ratio calculator


[email protected]
Total Posts: 5901
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 02-06-01
Posted: Nov-25-2006 07:49AM

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Incidentally, where the advertising $$ hurt ...assume for a second that your track is at least currently breaking even (big assumption if you go by the track having to "stand on it's own two feet" ...i.e. without taking into account any hobby shop/concession revenues), or even if it's not breaking even ...the purpose of this thread is to bring in NEW blood. So for $1500.00/month advertising, at $15.00 race fees = 100 NEW racers per month that this advertising needs to bring in just to "break even". Thats is a big monetary commitment to put out given the numbers necesarry to break even.
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Just another slow ass blue collared whiny Roseville bandwagon jumping baffon that won't help out of towners.
Click the holly scroll to see the entire excuse database
Click the golden gear for the new and improved gear ratio calculator


ImoWMuPPetS
Total Posts: 3
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 08-07-06
Posted: Nov-25-2006 08:07AM

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rc racing sucks PLAY PAINTBALL!!!!


JPH Racing
Total Posts: 1588
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 01-14-99
Posted: Nov-25-2006 09:40AM

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Harsh: Actually, recouping your money from advertising works a little differently than 100 racers @ 15 = 1500$ .... One new racer is good for X number of entry fees his first year, and good for X numbers of cokes, X number of hot-dogs, X number of parts, etc .... leaving the parts out of it, if the new racer runs 10 times his first year (keeping the math simple) that's 150, then add 15 cokes, 10 hot-dogs, 10 candybars, and you might get 200 for that new racer .... So, you only need 7.5 new racers to break even on that 1500$ ad.

Dan: Stop whipping the dead cat. Your money man did not do his job right figuring out his new track idea. If he based his whole business plan on the racer input from rcracing.com, then he saved a ton of money he would have lost cause he has no idea how to run a business .... You and he should be thankful.






E-mail me at: [email protected]

WWW.JPHRacing.com WWW.swiftracingproducts.com www.thegroundpounders.com

MAVERICK Oval Chassis & the "Mini Mav"


[email protected]
Total Posts: 5901
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 02-06-01
Posted: Nov-25-2006 09:51AM

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Well ...I was assuming a per month cost on the advertising e.g. on the theatre adds when I looked into it (for here in Roseville anyways) required a 6 month contract ....I understand what you are saying, if that was a yearly cost ($1500 i.e. $125/month) then it would be a different story
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Just another slow ass blue collared whiny Roseville bandwagon jumping baffon that won't help out of towners.
Click the holly scroll to see the entire excuse database
Click the golden gear for the new and improved gear ratio calculator


JPH Racing
Total Posts: 1588
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 01-14-99
Posted: Nov-25-2006 10:08AM

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I hear what you're saying, advertising is just plain expensive and it's hard to tell what works and what's a waste ...





E-mail me at: [email protected]

WWW.JPHRacing.com WWW.swiftracingproducts.com www.thegroundpounders.com

MAVERICK Oval Chassis & the "Mini Mav"


badboy
Total Posts: 4648
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 06-21-99
Posted: Nov-25-2006 10:51AM

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RC cars/trucks patrons Consist of three markets

1. the toy/occaisonal "fun user who just plays with it in or around where they live or work with a few friends. and eventually progress to bashing.


2. The hobbyist who wants to run a more sophistacted machine around their area no formal racing and such just to have fun typically called Basher's there is a web site where you can share info on this activity and meet others in your area

http://www.bashingspots.com/

3: the racers. Racers are the smallest sector of RC trucks and cars. they require a dedicated place with a more or less formal timing and scoring and orgaized racing

The hobbyist area #2 is the biggest by far.. thats where most hobby shops sell ther stuff too RTR's Monster trucks, etc. I'de say 10-15% would migrate to a formal race program if.. it was close to home or easy to do. Traveling 1/2 hour to race for most is a tough proposition. I bet Jake's Hobbys selles more rc to this group than any other and probably never sees the majority at a race track.

So what is the solution to grow the racer base? simple 1 racer at a time.

Work within our racer community and encourage each racer to bring a friend to a race. work one on one.. mass marketing or ads cost money and it is impossible to show the excitment and race atmosphere in an ad or tv spot.

If every racer just brought one new person into the hobby next year it will double in size and if each newbie got his friend into it it would grow. Right now I don't see too many or you "racers" bringing in new folk. thats how you grow through a grass roots program.

Now once you get the new person to the track how do you get them to want to do it and join the fun:

Make a racer program by creating an entry level class but also by having a few club cars poeple can try for the day. A few RC cars with a full skirt bumper "like play go karts idea" so there is no damage can be at the track if you guys were serious about letting others try it.

How many times have you been at a track and folk have asked if they could "rent" one to try?.. I have been at tracks where non racers want to see about the sport and the racer they spoke with said that they would have to spend money before they could try it? $200 , $300 etc. no way.

I bet if they could have rented one or tried a friends entry car they would be at least 1 step closer to being a racer. instead they get turned away.

Once you have builtup a larger racer community then you can take it to the next level and build a racer development program, give lessons do training and enventuall build up a community where othere for different areas start hearing about it and want to join in on the fun.







BADBOY
.I'm not getting any faster.. you're just getting slower!


J Stark
Total Posts: 150
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 08-30-02
Posted: Nov-25-2006 12:47PM

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Excellent post Badboy, couldn't agree more!!
What do you guys want? Do you want 100 entries at every race or do you want mainstream acceptance? The RC hobby itself is highly visable and mainstream, consisting of: cars, planes, boats, t-maxx, sedans, mini's, etc. But the actual "racing" aspect of it is such a small percentage and it's only made for a choosen few. Walk up to any pit spot on any given raceday and your gonna see about 2 thousand dollars worth of equipment laying there. That's not to inviting and that's why most people who are into this hobby are bashers with a Revo and very few ever make into the RC racing world.

Promoting our racing to the masses here in America is real difficult. We need to see what Asia's recipe is. They have a whole different approach then we do. They build tracks like cathedrals and spectators come to line up and watch. They have a great deal of respect for the hobby and Masami and Hara are actual celebraties over there. Same thing goes for Europe with thier approach. I think ping-pong gets more respect here in America than RC.

We need to take what we have and work worth it. Save all the seriousness for Nationals and other big races. Try to make the weekly racing as fun and laidback as possible. Give the novices some incentives. Charge them 5 or 10 bucks to race or give them a gift certificate for placing in the main. Anything to show that they are always welcome here and that they are no more less important than than any of the other guys who are pulling off the fastest laps. I'm gonna be doing race clinics at the Marin track in 07' once every month. I think Harshguy should do the same at Speedworld and Hicks at Nor-Cal. We'll cover everything from set-ups, equipment, driving, cornering and so forth. A raceday can be very intimidating for a newbie and I think this would be a great idea to get all new racers the information they need to have a successful and fun raceday.

It's gonna be tough to get the entry amount back up to what it was in the 90's. I don't see it happening in the "sedan era". These cars are to hard to set-up and maintain and are not durable enough. It's a turnoff to alot of people. In the 90's, with pan cars it was so much easier to get on pace. The kits and parts were much cheaper. The manufactures dictate the market, not us, so I really have no solution what to do about that.

Don't ever question or critisize somebody for opening a "field of dreams". Question the way they capitolize on it if you want to. Be happy, supportive and thankful for the people who have supplied us racers with these facilities. It's a funny thing, to read these chat rooms and see Nor-Cal and Speedworld catch more critisizm than support. Newbies read this chat room and then you wonder why most of them get turned off. It's hard to get respect when alot of you don't even respect what you already have.



Tamyia 415 MRE

JPH Racing
Total Posts: 1588
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 01-14-99
Posted: Nov-25-2006 03:23PM

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"It's hard to get respect when alot of you don't even respect what you already have." Amen Jesse! Good post!!





E-mail me at: [email protected]

WWW.JPHRacing.com WWW.swiftracingproducts.com www.thegroundpounders.com

MAVERICK Oval Chassis & the "Mini Mav"


[email protected]
Total Posts: 1611
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 07-01-01
Posted: Nov-25-2006 04:35PM

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SWR used to have a cool "pro-am" team concept. take an expert stock guy and pair them up with a novice guy. at the end of the day, add up their finishing positions and the team with the lowest score won. that would be a kind of cool points series, the novices get a dedicated expert driver to help them out with setups, driving, etc...

i remember the kid i got paired up with scored a heck of a lot better than i did that day. he's sponsored by losi now


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Just another hater, living my life vicariously through someone faster.




ABR
Total Posts: 76
Last Post: 11-25-06
User Since: 05-14-06
Posted: Nov-25-2006 08:48PM

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I was asked if RC was a hobby or a sport. People not in the race see it as a hobby and people that race say its a sport. Sometimes I see it as a cult and whoever has the best religion gets the turnout. Its a poor mans form of racing yet I find myself spending alot, sometimes 7or8 hundred to get to a race. Lets face it RC is like fencing or polo and is made up of some unique characters. I have noticed a decline in other clubs such as little league and BMX so dont take it personal. If you look at all the types of RC TC OVAL DIRT asphalt carpet there is alot going on.

Juan Aveytia
Total Posts: 212
Last Post: 11-26-06
User Since: 09-01-05
Posted: Nov-26-2006 06:49AM

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ABR little league is not hurting anywhere that I've seen. Baseball is huge. BMX is hurting because all the tracks are selling out to builders. Many people keep mentioning all the different segments of R/C. What I would like to see is a natioal campaine for our sport. No one outside our sport nows anything about our sport. The worlds, reedy and so forth.

I would like to see r/c go to the next level. Most people playing sports, know their done after high school. In our sport we can do this for as long as we like. McDonalds has some of the worst food in the world, but everyone goes there because of the marketing. It didn't happen over night. They kept advertising and basicly brain washing people to eat food that sucks. So, are you in a cult for eating Mcdonalds or because you play video games or go to church every week. Donate money to the church so they can have these multi million dallor buildings. When all you need to pray is you. Why can't church be be outside. Cult is a stupid word to use. Anything can be a cult.

All the old racers seem too content about the roller coaster affect this sport seems to have. The truth is we have such a big roller coaster affect because we don't run this sport like a business. Maybe we should start a real R/C Association designed to grow the sport. Design a system like a McDonalds. No matter what track you attend it will always be the same. Rent a rides, promo's, popcorn machines, snackbars should all be similar. A marketing plan that will work for all tracks. Real money to win for all racers at any level. A real points system. Areal ranking system. MAybe we can start betting in vegas, if we have real #'s for odds. Roar can be out of business fast, and a real orginization can be up and running in no time.

Corrally USA-EnvyMotorports-JWerks-poleposition
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