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Old 12-20-2006, 10:39 AM   #1351
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Originally Posted by slcf1
Thanks Carl. I chose to keep money in my pocket. How's the new job?
Job is going great. Lot's of interestng stuff, but very busy. I'll be dropping by from time to time to race in Utah.
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:45 PM   #1352
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Originally Posted by jiml
Maybe it's me, but since ROAR has decided not to go to 4 cell, isn't any further discussion pointless?

...we're on a thread to nowhere...
I don't agree. I think it's good to understand all avenues of the sport. And in my case, I ran 5 cell at a club level in an attempt to gain a competetive advantage on a short track. It's good to read about other ways to regulate speeds to improve track times.

This thread has made us try all kind of things I never would have. And I'm hoping to help more noobs run 4cell in touring to keep from trashing the car.

Positive results, that came from a lot of people discussing something that has been "tabled".
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:24 PM   #1353
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If only that was the motivating factor...

New racers using milder 4-cell set ups to get their wheels under them is a concept that has great potential...That's not what has been tabled though...what has been tabled is a reduced cell count as a solution to low entries in mod...

Testing needs to be done though on what happens when running 4 and 5 cells and pushing equipment to (or beyond) its limit....THAT is the issue that is causing problems in 6-cell....and I haven't seen much evidence to indicate it would be any different with a reduced cell count.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:33 PM   #1354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisP
I haven't seen much evidence to indicate it would be any different with a reduced cell count.
Go back a few more pages...its in here.
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:41 PM   #1355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Go back a few more pages...its in here.
I've seen evidence that it can be made to run similar lap times...I haven't seen what happens when 4-5 cell is pushed to or beyond its limits...

If people respected the limitations of their equipment with 6-cell it wouldn't be an issue either....but they try to push it too far and have problems...(which is to be expected at the upper tier of racing....pushing equipment right up to its breaking point)...I just don't expect it to be any different with a reduced cell count..

It's good that there is time to assess this, though, and see what happens as racers attempt to push perfomance with the reduced counts farther and farther...
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:51 PM   #1356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisP
I've seen evidence that it can be made to run similar lap times...I haven't seen what happens when 4-5 cell is pushed to or beyond its limits...

If people respected the limitations of their equipment with 6-cell it wouldn't be an issue either....but they try to push it too far and have problems...(which is to be expected at the upper tier of racing....pushing equipment right up to its breaking point)...I just don't expect it to be any different with a reduced cell count..

It's good that there is time to assess this, though, and see what happens as racers attempt to push perfomance with the reduced counts farther and farther...
It is in here...in a nut shell:

The limit is 45A. It dosent matter if you run 4-5-6 cells if you pull more than 45 amps you will dump in 5 min. Since 45A is the max you can pull with current battery capacity lowering the voltage will lower wattage output and heat losses in our motors. Thus they will run cooler, magents will last longer, brushes will last longer, comms will last longer, etc...
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:54 PM   #1357
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But as it stands with 6-cell they are not pulling all of the capacity necessarily...

in order to get up to speed with reduced cell counts they are pushing the batteries harder...dumping them hard on the track and causing irreversible damage to their cells making them an even more expensive consumable...

Equipment is still being abused, just in a different manner...
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:55 PM   #1358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekB
A little addition to my last post is that it allow ROAR to have something to offer other than a set of rules.

You now can travel to other tracks and race people, and have it count for something.
I totally agree with Derek. This is exactly what ROAR needs, as well as the hobby in general. I am sure this can be achieved, in a cost effective manner.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:11 PM   #1359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisP
But as it stands with 6-cell they are not pulling all of the capacity necessarily...

in order to get up to speed with reduced cell counts they are pushing the batteries harder...dumping them hard on the track and causing irreversible damage to their cells making them an even more expensive consumable...

Equipment is still being abused, just in a different manner...
But we are..its just that 6 cells dumped to 1v per cells still gets the car moving faster than a 4 ot 5 cells at 1v per cell.

We dont use any more or less out of the cells with 4, 5, or 6 cell racing. Its just that dumping is less noticable with 5 or 6 cells.With fewer cells the dumping looks worse because the nonimal voltage is lower.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:24 PM   #1360
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Seems strange....with discussion of 'more speed than even the top drivers can handle'....and others talking about runtime left at the end of a 5 minute mod run...compared to gearing up and pushing cells to dump them at 4:30 (in discussion of the Japan Nats)...

I don't see this as solving problems, but trading one set of problems for another...

Again...testing and assessment in a competition environment will prove or disprove the effectiveness of cell count reductions..
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:50 PM   #1361
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Like I said earlier... Who cares, let them run what they want 4, 5 or 6 cells, weight the car and be done with it. With in 12 months you will have many answers to your questions and a lot of new questions. But if you think you and have an advantage with 5 cells in your car with less weight (you mite), then go for, win and leave the others to figure it out.

That is what we are going to try in the Bass Pro Series, allow them (4, 5 6, and Lipo) in the same class at different weights... It should be fun and interesting... I'm looking forward to seeing how it all plays out.
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Old 12-21-2006, 12:23 AM   #1362
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Perhaps a better way to look at it would be to stop comparing it to F1, and perhaps compare it to the NHRA.

Top Fuel is gonna cost you some money, a lot of money, and you're gonna burn up some stuff once in a while (sound familiar?). They have slower classes that allow fewer modifications and are more budget oriented.

We in the RC industry have mod, as a starting point. And we need mod to be a balls out open class for manufacturers to test and showcase things and help develop products on the upper edge. All that technology trickles down. What we need are accurate classes for the rest of us. And more seperation between them. You shouldn't be able to make the mod main with a 19t, or the 19t main with a stock at club level races, but people do it.
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Old 12-21-2006, 03:06 AM   #1363
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How many cars are allow to race in one heat or final ? 10 cars max ?
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:24 AM   #1364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576
How many cars are allow to race in one heat or final ? 10 cars max ?
This depends on the size of the track and average lap times. It think the guideline is lap time divided by 1.4 equals the max number of cars that should be on the track. Most places ignore this and run 10 car mains.

There are a lot of 1/8 off road tracks were the lap times are in the 30sec to 1 minute range. The regularly run 14 or more cars in a main.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:28 AM   #1365
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OK... For 10 scale sedans, how about 4 classes/licenses/what-ever_you_want_to_CALL_IT

Class 1: beginner/novice, Motor: non-rebuildable stock Battery: 3800 MAX Car kit: $300 SRP
Can not be company/vendor sponsored, The Fun Class....

Class 2: Sportsman: Motor: rebuildable Stock and brushless, 4300 battery ANy kit car,
AGAIN non-sponsored The Competitive Class

Class 3: The expert: 19 turn or less, brushless. batteries: any plus lipos
Can be sponsored but not the full ride. The Fast Class

Class 4: THe Pro class: Anything and everything goes , modified motors, lipos, batteries. The EXPERT Class.


How'd I do?????
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