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Old 11-23-2006, 06:14 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by syndr0me
Pros don't matter. They're paid to run something, plain and simple. No consumer should look at what a pro is running and assume that's what's right for them. I realize this is a shot in the heart of the whole sponsorship mentality, but we all know it's true. Informed consumers know better, and so do you.
I'm pretty sure that the companies with brushless motors available have contracts ready to sign to get paid just as much as the brushed companies.. it's still a choice to run brushed stuff.
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Old 11-23-2006, 06:23 PM   #122
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I think its kind of a neat move, Though I run stock/19t Touring in the summer time I would not mind running 4-cell Mod touring.Im looking foward to this new rule It dont hurt to change now and then.
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Old 11-23-2006, 06:36 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by mike ivy
I think its kind of a neat move, Though I run stock/19t Touring in the summer time I would not mind running 4-cell Mod touring.Im looking foward to this new rule It dont hurt to change now and then.
Thats just it. The cars will be marginally slower for now...but if you want the speed you can bump up a class.

I fully expect that within 12-24 months the speed will be back to exactly where we are now. Mainly because of developments in brushless motors.

The funny thing I keep reading is the guys want to go faster. If this is true what do most of you still race stock? You want to go faster...run 19T or Mod...but you don't do that.

The battery war will be an issue for Mod only. The guys running Stock and 19T 4 cell could still run 8 min or more if they wanted to.

Note that there were no BL motors allowed at the Japanese Nats. BL is WAY more efficient and will allow for longer run time by their very nature.

The funny thing (2) is the same guys complaining about this potential battery war in Mod don't run mod and are the same guys that wanted to make races longer to make people motor down a couple of threads ago .
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Old 11-23-2006, 06:38 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Thats just it. The cars will be marginally slower for now...but if you want the speed you can bump up a class.

I fully expect that within 12-24 months the speed will be back to exactly where we are now. Mainly because of developments in brushless motors.

The funny thing I keep reading is the guys want to go faster. If this is true what do most of you still race stock? You want to go faster...run 19T or Mod...but you don't do that.

The battery war will be an issue for Mod only. The guys running Stock and 19T 4 cell could still run 8 min or more if they wanted to.

The funny thing (2) is the same guys complaining about this potential battery war in Mod don't run mod and are the same guys that wanted to make races longer to make people motor down a couple of threads ago .
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Old 11-23-2006, 06:52 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
The funny thing I keep reading is the guys want to go faster. If this is true what do most of you still race stock? You want to go faster...run 19T or Mod...but you don't do that.
The problem is those that "LIKE" racing 19T (a very popular class BTW) will find the new 4 cell 19T to have a very high "SUCK" factor. You are couseling them to hang tight and wait for a few years until technology catches up...how about the mod guys (most of whom get there stuff for free anyway) take that approach and run 6 cell until the speed control and motor technology catches up for them???

P.S. you should also consider that many just do not want to race mod with you whether it is 6 cell or 4 cell. Ask yourself if the bulk of the membership (stock and 19T racers) will be happy with ROAR telling them to move up.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:09 PM   #126
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Well, while I don't race mod.....I surely pay the for the batteries that guys like Mike Dumas and Billy Easton use...

Billy ran at the Japanese Nationals.....he did a ton of test prior to going. All of his testing was exactly as masami's was....which showed, a new battery for every run to even come close to making run time...

This from a professional who KNOWS how to charge, discharge, and maintain his packs....

Mike Dumas used the same battery three times during the vegas race in his 2nd and 4th qualifiers.....and in the main.....

SMC has just come on here telling you they send out two packs per race per class...

Batteries sent to Billy for Japanese Nats....one class....8 packs....one for each run.

Yup....Billy and I are lying....


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Old 11-23-2006, 07:20 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Thats just it. The cars will be marginally slower for now...but if you want the speed you can bump up a class.

I fully expect that within 12-24 months the speed will be back to exactly where we are now. Mainly because of developments in brushless motors.
So, uh, doesn't that kind of negate the idea of lowering cell count in the first place? To get back to the power we have now, will require the industy to build more, different and better products to bring the speeds back to the level the racers are looking for. Those products, interestingly enough, won't be free.

There isn't one person here that can honestly say, "yea, the cells changed, THIS IS GREAT, we're not buying anymore brushes, motors, electronics, batteries, NOTHING, for the next 2 years".. "MAN, am I gonna save some money". "This sure is gonna bring in the new guys... "

Ironically, the rule that will create (5 or 4 cell racing) will breed a whole new pile of equipment and motors, that whether you need or not, the fast guys where you race will all use.

The same guys will go fast, it's just that it will now cost everybody more money. And breed a whole new pile of items in the "look what I don't have" category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
The battery war will be an issue for Mod only. The guys running Stock and 19T 4 cell could still run 8 min or more if they wanted to.
Seriously? If the motor is spec'd out at 19t or 27t, one of the largest improvements will be, sadly, SUPER HIGH VOLTAGE AND LOW IR BATTERYS... AND, torturing your motors even harder through over gearing and 1 run brushes, batterys, etc.

This whole thing is misguided, to an unbelievable level. The batterys work better than we've ever had... YEA, LET'S CHANGE THE BATTERYS AND NOT THE MOTORS THAT ARE CLAIMED TO BE THE PROBLEM.

People are racing 19t because it's a good comprimise, it's fast, and there are fewer SUPER FAST guys in it. I'd say half the club racing we see is people racing 2 or more cars trying to get a little more track time for their racing dollar. I's not that a lot of fast guys are slacking in stock, it's that there weren't enough options for people that wanted to run 2 touring classes. 2 classes of touring used to mean you ran in stock and mod, that was it... NOW the guys that want to really haul can run Mod and 19t, and the guys that like stock but want to dabble in a little extra speed can run stock and 19.

Already this year, the majority of our fastest stock guys, myself included have moved to 19t and mod. Gives the other racers interested in that speed a place to be. PLUS, there is the added value of the guy with a single touring car being able to actually compete (on a club level) with the mod guys using a 19t motor.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:25 PM   #128
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Wow...just read all this. Slow cars suck. I don't care how many cells they want us to use, as long as they go fast. And I don't think 4-cell is going to be fast. We'll see. Nitro is getting faster and faster every year...so why does electric need to go slower? Yet another motorsport jumping on the bandwagon and reducing the "displacement" to keep the racing safe, closer and more affordable.

Belive it or not...five minute heats/mains just got slower.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:31 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
The problem is those that "LIKE" racing 19T (a very popular class BTW) will find the new 4 cell 19T to have a very high "SUCK" factor. You are couseling them to hang tight and wait for a few years until technology catches up...how about the mod guys (most of whom get there stuff for free anyway) take that approach and run 6 cell until the speed control and motor technology catches up for them???

P.S. you should also consider that many just do not want to race mod with you whether it is 6 cell or 4 cell. Ask yourself if the bulk of the membership (stock and 19T racers) will be happy with ROAR telling them to move up.
Have you tried it...I mean really tried it. If not you are just guessing that it sucks and are spouting off about somthing you know nothing about.

We have way too many "internet experts" and not enough guys that have real experience. They guys that ARE running 4 cell right now are finding it is not much slower.

Also, you think its going to take "a few years" to get the speed you you are WAY under informed. A huge jump in speed will happen as of January 1, 2007 when we can run sintered mags in BL motors.

The Novak 13.5 whigh is supposed to be a "Stock Level" motor is just as fast as a 19T with a sintered mag in it. Eventually 13.5 will be "The" stock class.

Where do guys start out when the motor you start with is as fast as a 19T?

Brushed motors are going to die within the next 2 years. Beginers faced with an option of a maintence free motor will be all over the 13.5 BL class. How sucessful will your local new guy be if 19 is where that start out...not very.

4 or 5 cells is the answer.

The people pushing 4 and 5 cell are the industry leaders. They know more than you and have been doing this longer than you. They depend on your hobby for their lively hood. As Such they have done the research and have determined that 4 or 5 cell is the best course for the future of R/C racing.

All of this happend 7 years ago in Oval racing. None of your arguments are new. They were all said 7 years ago and the guys that complained then now say that switch was a good move.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:32 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Well, while I don't race mod.....I surely pay the for the batteries that guys like Mike Dumas and Billy Easton use...

Billy ran at the Japanese Nationals.....he did a ton of test prior to going. All of his testing was exactly as masami's was....which showed, a new battery for every run to even come close to making run time...

This from a professional who KNOWS how to charge, discharge, and maintain his packs....

Mike Dumas used the same battery three times during the vegas race in his 2nd and 4th qualifiers.....and in the main.....

SMC has just come on here telling you they send out two packs per race per class...

Batteries sent to Billy for Japanese Nats....one class....8 packs....one for each run.

Yup....Billy and I are lying....


Later EddieO
run time?? I've been running 4 cells with the Novak 3.5 and a very small receiver pack and I have no problems making run-time i can get almost 6 minutes ,(running 3800's) maybe the runtime issue is with brushed motors.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:37 PM   #131
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Bob - What exactly is your point? Once again progress is going to happen in motors, batteries, speedos and chassis no matter what we run battery wise. Guys will buy loads of new stuff next year no matter how many batteries we run.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:38 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by ngo8
i think the result of this vote all roar events will be slow its going to be a factory thing from now on ROAR if you are listening you are breaking tradition and its a stupid thing to do .
Don't fear change. This happened with oval several years ago, and the change has been for the better. 4 cell oval classes now are faster than their 6 cell counterparts of a few years ago.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:41 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by THE DARKSIDE
Don't fear change. This happened with oval several years ago, and the change has been for the better. 4 cell oval classes now are faster than their 6 cell counterparts of a few years ago.
...And the motors last longer in all classes. Mod motors do not unsolder windings from the commor throw winds. BL motor do not shut down or blow rotors....on and on.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:45 PM   #134
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EddieO,

Would you say that guys like Easton and Dumas are in a league of their own? How many people in the USA can hang with either of them?

how many people do you know that can do this kind of a run. 1/12 mod, some of the best racers in the world.

12.06
10.77
10.63
10.61
10.38
10.57
10.43
10.46
10.29
10.51
10.65
10.36
10.47
10.70
10.52
10.55
10.49
10.55
10.51
10.39
10.54
10.50
10.48
10.53
10.44
10.45
10.40
10.83
10.50
10.46
10.45
10.66
10.47
10.58
10.69
10.51
10.71
10.73
10.52
10.54
10.61
10.58
10.67
10.64
10.98
11.19

That's Dumas's A-main winning run from 1/12 mod in Vegas. How many people do you know that can take the very fastest cars and do that with them?

A run like that is NOT what 99% of the RC public lays down. Not at all, possibley ever. I race with a lot of guys that will NEVER be able to do that.

The guy that won 19t at our last club race, IS NOT putting down consistency like that. And the best batterys and motors in the world will not help that.

People that can use 4-5 extra seconds on a pack, and REALLY use it, 30-50 people worldwide? What if packs were rationed like handout tires? And I truly believe that the best drivers still win. Spend some time with the calculator and add up some laps and see who is turning the most consistent fast laps. Not the fastest laps. The closest deviation to their fastest lap. It's not the guys in 5th place on down...

Also, interestingly enough, the guys that went the fastest didn't buy their own stuff, so why should they have any kind of say?
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:53 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Well, while I don't race mod.....I surely pay the for the batteries that guys like Mike Dumas and Billy Easton use...

Billy ran at the Japanese Nationals.....he did a ton of test prior to going. All of his testing was exactly as masami's was....which showed, a new battery for every run to even come close to making run time...

This from a professional who KNOWS how to charge, discharge, and maintain his packs....

Mike Dumas used the same battery three times during the vegas race in his 2nd and 4th qualifiers.....and in the main.....

SMC has just come on here telling you they send out two packs per race per class...

Batteries sent to Billy for Japanese Nats....one class....8 packs....one for each run.

Yup....Billy and I are lying....


Later EddieO
i agree, once we go to 4cells... back are the days were factories and their top 1% cell will dominate the a-main.

sucks if we need new packs for every event and every round raced.
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