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Old 12-14-2006, 09:39 PM   #1291
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Originally Posted by robk
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http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...ghlight=points

Points system allowing racers to club race and accumulate points without travelling.
I think most clubs with AMB systems already have software to keep track of club and series points. I'm guessing most clubs already know who fits where in their organization. The problem would be trying to compare regions. I don't know, maybe it wouldn't be. What about fast racers that are in areas where there are few others on that level? Or conversely, a racer that is very good, but stuck club racing with a group of top 20 nationals style drivers.


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It gave "pro points" and if you raced anywhere in the country you go either +/- pro points depending on how you finished and who you raced against. If you raced a bunch of guys that weren't ranked high, you got little points, if you raced against highly ranked you got more.
What happens if you attend an event where they don't prescribe to that particular point system?
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:38 PM   #1292
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www.oskarsystems.com

Check out their software/race program/ point of sale.

The idea for ROAR is that all ROAR tracks are on the same system, any track. This way you can sell it to people that race why they want to join and seek out tracks on the system.

If you area has low pro points it would allow you to search out tracks to get more.


System already running at tracks across the country, software running, point system up and running. No figuring things out, just buying in to their software.
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Old 12-14-2006, 11:04 PM   #1293
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Originally Posted by DerekB
www.oskarsystems.com

Check out their software/race program/ point of sale.

The idea for ROAR is that all ROAR tracks are on the same system, any track. This way you can sell it to people that race why they want to join and seek out tracks on the system.

If you area has low pro points it would allow you to search out tracks to get more.


System already running at tracks across the country, software running, point system up and running. No figuring things out, just buying in to their software.
So how much is it?
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:29 PM   #1294
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
So how much is it?
It looks expensive, being that it's a for profit company. They also don't have a price list, but want you to get a quote. It sounds great, but most tracks need a basic low cost way to do this. From the quotes below, it sounds like this is a hardware and software thing.


"With OSKAR, you deliver a great end to end experience: from the easy, professional customer welcome kiosk, to the fast and flexible POS which allows guests to use their ProCard racing license as a debit card, to the wide variety of races and events that you can offer, to the easy to read and souvenir-worthy score sheets the guests take home."

"OSKAR's super reliable foundation means no downtime, no lost data. Call us belt and suspender types. But every OSKAR SafeServer� has two hard drives - each a mirror of the other, and two power supplies. Like a plane, it can run on either one. And if the worst becomes a reality -- you have a flood or a fire, we can even maintain offsite data backups for you."
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:56 AM   #1295
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Default 5 cell mod testing.

We kind of got off track here a bit in this thread, so here is some related stuff.

Well, I've been running 5 cell mod now for 2 club race dates and one larger 2-day event. Just for fun. It's topical, and I thought it was "interesting". I'm guessing I have around 18-20 packs run now on 5 cell through the 4 race days. 5 cell mod, on foam, on carpet.

These are just my personal thoughts and data. take it for what it's worth.

On our club track, 40x60, i thought it worked fine. I had great power, nobody was the wiser. I was able to win with it. But just felt it was harder on the batterys to go faster with 5 cell than 6. Seemed like a 10 turn was good on the shorter track.

This 2-day event however, was a different story. Big carpet track 48x100 or so. The 10 turn setup on a large track was to slow. I geared up a few teeth, but it just didn't have the high RPM needed for the long straight, and the more I geared it, the hotter it got. I ended up qualifying 3rd at this event to some VERY qualified drivers in mod, I was TQ in stock.

I ended up running a 7 turn motor on the 5 cell car, and never really did have the speed the top 2 had on their setups, not even close, really. And 2-3 of the guys qualified behind me had cars that were considerably faster on the straight, like a stock motor running in 19turn is what it looked like. And it was finicky. I burned the leads off that motor twice in one heat (quick pit action got the lead soldered back on at the 3:30 minute mark, and I made some more laps and it burned off again before the 5 minutes was up). I re-built it, ran it in the next qualifier and burned the leads off again at about 4 minutes, dropped a tooth on the pinion. I found a Trinity Cobalt can in my motor box with a nice 7 turn arm in it, (nice big heatsinks on the brushes), ran it, no burned off leads, Dumped at 4:45 and rolled to the finish, good enough to qualify me third. Rebuilt it for the mains, got punted, and ran HARD trying to catch up. Dumped like a dog at 4:30, and probably ruined the pack limping around the track for the last 30 seconds with voltage so low my personal tranponder wasn't counting.

Both times with the cobalt, the majority of the motor was at 240+ degrees, and the endbell would still sizzle spit for 2 minutes after the race was over. No fans on the car (forgot them, new car... it happens.)

I did make time with that same gearing earlier, and during practice, but was pushing pretty hard in the last qualifier and the main, so I don't believe I was overgeared.

My initial thoughts now are that you are going to need a VERY low brushed wind on a big track, and it's gonna be a battery eater.

I guess we'll see as more guys try it. I'd say I liked it on a short track. I did not like it on a big track.

I'm going back to 6 cell. Easier on stuff, and I hadn't dumped in mod touring (EVER) until I started running 5 cell. It is pretty well rumored that a serious dump on 4200's is the kiss of death for the pack. I guess I'll find out, I had 2 HARD dumps.

I saw quite a few guys in mod, take matters into their own hands to turn better laps, like running higher wind mods, and even a few 19 turns. It's just like Golf. Knowing your limitations and good course management will yield your best results. I thought that was very cool. Not everybody needs to have their hands held so their equipment survives.

Take it for what it's worth. Your mileage will vary.

-Bob
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Last edited by Bob-Stormer; 12-18-2006 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:11 AM   #1296
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Good info Bob.

There's one sponsored driver at our track, and he's very good about sharing information with anyone who asks. He tried 4 cell mod just in practice. In order to get the speed he had to gear WAY up. He said the car was about as fast, but was much harder on batteries. Batteries are an expensive part of electric racing. If 4 cell means more money on batteries, then it's not a good idea.

Maybe Derek was right after all (oh am I going to pay for that).
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:29 AM   #1297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
Good info Bob.

There's one sponsored driver at our track, and he's very good about sharing information with anyone who asks. He tried 4 cell mod just in practice. In order to get the speed he had to gear WAY up. He said the car was about as fast, but was much harder on batteries. Batteries are an expensive part of electric racing. If 4 cell means more money on batteries, then it's not a good idea.

Maybe Derek was right after all (oh am I going to pay for that).
It would take a huge redisign of TC's to make 4 cell viable... There is just too much weight to push around at that low voltage.... A 10th pan is almost half the weight and a heck of a lot more efficient than the current TC's... AWD would definitely not be needed anymore with 4 cells....
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:10 AM   #1298
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more fuel for the battery fire.. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061218/...ushita_battery

to paraphrase the story, matsushita (panasonic) is coming out with some safer lithium ion cells. the cells can handle shorting without overheating (due to metal particles puncturing the membranes that separate things, which caused the big Sony recall). One could wager that some of this technology could be usable for lipos.

In any case, if we leave the batteries alone we will just tone down the non-adjustable motors, and the mod guys will learn how to make intercoolers and such. (oh man i'm starting to think of those f1 cars from tamiya and mlp just need a multi-speed tranny or cvt and start craming intercoolers in the side pods ohhhh nelly)
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:09 AM   #1299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
event to some VERY qualified drivers in mod, I was TQ in stock.

I ended up running a 7 turn motor on the 5 cell car, and never really did have the speed the top 2 had on their setups, not even close, really. And 2-3 of the guys qualified behind me had cars that were considerably faster on the straight, like a stock motor running in 19turn is what it looked like.
Both times with the cobalt, the majority of the motor was at 240+ degrees, and the endbell would still sizzle spit for 2 minutes after the race was over. No fans on the car (forgot them, new car... it happens.)


-Bob
I have been trying to stay out of this....but.... isn't the idea to slow down a little? Both you and Josh have tested and commented that it is almost as fast or could be as fast yet the idea when this whole thing started was to slow things down a little. Why do you keep trying to go as fast as 6 cells if the idea is to go a little slower.

As Josh pointed out, the lap times are so fast that very few people can drive these cars in Mod, fine with me, the best of the best should be running Mod anyway, let the mear mortals run 19t. You don't see too many local drag racers run Top Fuel, and that is what Mod is for R/C cars.

And by the way, comparing our stuff to NASCAR or F1 fits sometimes but when it comes to speed the problem is those things have PEOPLE in them! When NASCAR cars started flying into the stands they slowed them down, when F1 got too fast with power and downforce they were killing people, that is not the same as breaking a steering block!

Honestly I can see the advantage of both leaving things alone and changing to 5 cells, for sure not four. If the idea is to go a little slower which should break fewer parts and cut down on wear on things like tires then it is probably a good idea. But can we afford the expense of the learning curve to make 5 cells work?
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:17 AM   #1300
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I dont think the point of lowering the cars is to reduce speed, it was to make it for the equipment to last longer with the higher current batteries. Sounds like from Bob's testing it isnt accomplishing its goal.
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:27 AM   #1301
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Even when or if we go to less cells all racers are going to try to go as fast as possible. That is racing. Never changes. Even bashers come into the hobbyshop and first question is how can I make this faster!!!!!!!!!!!

We have had a few guys testing 4 cell stock and 19T. Right now they are from 1 to 1.5 seconds slower but this with only 3 or 4 packs. Still figuring out gearing and setup but lap times are coming down and getting faster everytime they practice with it and make more changes.
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:49 AM   #1302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Smash
I dont think the point of lowering the cars is to reduce speed, it was to make it for the equipment to last longer with the higher current batteries. Sounds like from Bob's testing it isnt accomplishing its goal.
I think you are totally wrong about Bob's testing....

Josh, Bob and Rod Mitchell ( local racer and one of the better drivers ) have been running 4 cell and the data they provided should be used as benchmarking data. Any testing of 4 cells packs has to have a "breaking " point. What is the MAX before something failes and what is the safe range for the to meet the runtimes of the batteries and the meltdown of Speedo/etc.
And to make sure there is is long term damage to your equipment.

Think of tunning a nitro engine.. How much can I get out of it before it blows..
Heat, runtime on a tank of gas, gearing... Sounds like these 2 are alot alike doesn't it.


I's rather keep the 6 cells but make the races longer 6 cell 5 to 7minutes and 4 cell 8 to 10 minutes. I also would like to see more enduro type races but thats just me....
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:50 AM   #1303
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[QUOTE=Josh Cyrul]Kevin -
Compared with a few years ago we are going so much faster than in the past. We can reduce the power source in the cars thus reducing the heat and force that is destroying electronics as well as the suspension parts themselves (wear and tear and impacts).....

I always use example so many have seen this this but for muahdib4 here's a little real world data:

Akron, Ohio 1998 ROAR Carpet Oval Nats:

TQ 63 Laps 4:03 w/6-cell

Akron, Ohio 2002 ROAR Carpet Oval Nats:

TQ 62 Laps 4:00 w/4-cell

In 2006, I believe the track record is around 68+ laps with 4 cells!!! This is the advancement of technology. Deny it if you guys want but it's right in front of our faces. It only took 4 years to match the speeds from 4-6 cell. Now, 4 years later look at where it is... It's only going to continue...."



I guess I was under the impression that at least Josh was trying to slow the cars down. Come on guys, we kill for batteries that are 1.249 rather then 1.242, isn't that more power? Yet we are saying you can reduce voltage by as much as 1.249 total and not go slower...please!
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:52 AM   #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyd
Even when or if we go to less cells all racers are going to try to go as fast as possible. That is racing. Never changes. Even bashers come into the hobbyshop and first question is how can I make this faster!!!!!!!!!!!

We have had a few guys testing 4 cell stock and 19T. Right now they are from 1 to 1.5 seconds slower but this with only 3 or 4 packs. Still figuring out gearing and setup but lap times are coming down and getting faster everytime they practice with it and make more changes.
I thought Rod was about .3 slower per lap....
I think with 4 cells the configuration would be like this for weight balance:

Cell open Cell Cell open Cell
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Last edited by Nova F1 Racer; 12-18-2006 at 10:52 AM. Reason: stupid spelling errors
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:10 AM   #1305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk
It looks expensive, being that it's a for profit company. They also don't have a price list, but want you to get a quote. It sounds great, but most tracks need a basic low cost way to do this. From the quotes below, it sounds like this is a hardware and software thing.


"With OSKAR, you deliver a great end to end experience: from the easy, professional customer welcome kiosk, to the fast and flexible POS which allows guests to use their ProCard racing license as a debit card, to the wide variety of races and events that you can offer, to the easy to read and souvenir-worthy score sheets the guests take home."

"OSKAR's super reliable foundation means no downtime, no lost data. Call us belt and suspender types. But every OSKAR SafeServer� has two hard drives - each a mirror of the other, and two power supplies. Like a plane, it can run on either one. And if the worst becomes a reality -- you have a flood or a fire, we can even maintain offsite data backups for you."
Everything in the world is "for profit" the software that tracks use now is "for profit." Investing in a system that will bring people in to the hobby is worth a couple of grand. Transponder systems are 5K, this is a business and investing in your business is the best thing you can do. Obviously, if anybody moves forward with that systems a group buy will help reduce the costs, but ANYTHiNG will cost some cash, and anything that is worth it's weight is worth a little more.
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