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Old 12-13-2006, 04:33 PM   #1276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
Bob - If you check those kits I'm pretty sure ours was the only one with good tires (pink & purple), a body, titanium tie rods, ti axles, tie king pins and .110 graphite (.030 thicker than all other 1/12 kits). We've stripped the tires and body out so racers can choose and get the kit at or just under $200.00.... The old kit sold in hobby shops for around $225. CEFX was only that expensive at Stormer - $270.....
Well, that's no good. Now $219.

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Old 12-13-2006, 04:35 PM   #1277
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
You know I'm just messin' with ya...

But seriously, how much cheaper could it possibly be? That's all I was pointing out. If we gave everybody on earth a CEFX car, would turnouts go through the roof? Nope. Wonder why? Can't get any cheaper than free.

I offered our club touring rookies free batterys last week to test if they showed up.. Not one of them showed that particular week.

It's not about free, it's not about expensive, it's about fun. Where racing is fun, people show up to have fun and race. Where it's not, it's full of people that complain and talk about how that other guy that punted him is a moron.
I don't know how many times this has been mentioned in this thread, but it's spot on. When a class isn't fun anymore, it dies. People don't have fun racing TC anymore.

We raced 2WD offroad at Titus Hobby by my house after work. 3 of us from the office went and had fun, there was 7 people there. A few were sponsored in some fashion. I suggested instead of "IFMAR" starts we just run A-Mains, since I'm there to have some fun and "race." The few people who ruined the fun wanted IFMAR and got mad when we'd be racing each other and send somebody off the track.

When people come and see others getting pissed, it doesn't attract new people.


If any organization wants to attract, or retain people, it's not about speed. There are many other reasons why a class fails, or people don't like something anymore. It's not speed, or money. This hobby isn't cheap (its cheap by other standards) and the people into don't care about money, it's about fun. People mask that reason, but when it boils down to it, that's what everything in life is about.


I'll believe a manufacturer that says 'it's trying to save money for people" when they stop marketing false HP #s and target 70mph RTRS to beginners. Otherwise I see through the BS.

That is not an attack on racers, because I know how it is, but also know that most of the time when people complain it's because they actually aren't that good and think complaining will make them faster.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:45 PM   #1278
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Definatly agree on the fun factor (finally we agree on something...lol)...

Bob - Info coming soon.. I need to stop replying here so I can get my instructions and set-up sheets done!!
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:33 PM   #1279
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I thought I would just share some infomation on how popular running 4 cell mod has been at an indoor winter series here in the UK.
The person who runs the track that host the event is for running less cells but out of 64 drivers there were 25 27T stock (6 cell), 37 19T Spec (6 cell) and 2 for 4 cell Mod.
Most of the racers are not sponsered drivers.
Before any one mentions that this is not a big out door track with the problems attached, it still shows that the majority of racers are happy running 6 cells at least at this event.
Yes you might say that there is not a problem with motors/esc burning up on an indoor track which runs rubber tyres but if the number of cells did get changed then the new chassis would be desighned around the less cells, thus forcing these racers to change their cells the next time they have a new kit even though they seem happy with six.

Compare the above numbers to another popular indoor winter series that has allowed 6 cells for all classes plus brushless for mod and LIPOS for Mod & 19 turn.
Mod 39 entries over 2 rounds.
19T 50 entries over 2 rounds.
27T 40 entries over 2 rounds.

A lot closer numbers than when running less cells.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:36 PM   #1280
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Although not addressed to me, let me tell you why that won't work. Who decides what "sponsorship" really is? 90% of kids racing that are 15 years old or less are NOT buying their stuff. My son, now 17, has never bought anything, not one part, and he gets to race all over the country, and has never spent a dime to do it. Is he sponsored? Isn't that definition of "sponsored", getting things for free?
NORRCA tried to define this once, and FAILED at it.

In our old sportsman classes you were NOT allowed to be "sponsored" , but enforce or prove it.

I could BUY a motor from a MOTOR Winder for $35.00 (retail $80.00) or I could MAIL ORDER one from STORMER for $49.95 (I forget what I paid for them...but they either came from STORMER or TOWER since they were out of state and I didn't have to pay SALES TAX...which saved another 7.75%)

I did not feel "SPONSORED" because I bought a motor direct, but by the "RULES" that were set up...I was. If you received ANY discount off "RETAIL", it was the same as being SPONSORED...and you were penalized for being a SMART SHOPPER.

On the other hand...a guy SITTING INSIDE of a FACTORY TRAILER or PIT Area, being handed a car that was SET UP and EQUIPPED just like the PRO GUY (but he didn't OWN it) didn't qualify as SPONSORED, because technically he didn't OWN the stuff...so Nothing was "GIVEN" to him. There were several other GRAY areas too, and it was nearly impossible to properly police.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:19 PM   #1281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikoskar
I have one question:

There is a rule that tell you that you can use 5.5 Turns Brushless Motor
Is there a rule (EFRA)that tells you that you can use only motors with not higher than 340 Watt?

LRP has 5.5 Turn Brushless 280Watt and 5.5 Turn Brushless with 390Watt.

Why i cannot use the 5.5 Turn with the 390 Watt?

Sorry for the Off-Topic

Regards
Can someone please answer me?
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Old 12-14-2006, 05:37 AM   #1282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
Why the need for the reduced rate?
Because IF a change in the cell count rule was to happen, the minimum weight would be reduced too (just as EFRA did). Those are the parameters I would want to test with. Why run something different?

Doesn't really matter, since I doubt it will happen.

People would just rather bitch instead of being pro-active and doing something about it.

I'm done with this thread....I didn't reply for 42 pages worth, and it's the same BS arguement going nowhere.
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:25 AM   #1283
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Originally Posted by futureal
In my (humble) opinion, we have to stop arguing about stock racing as if it were an officially sanctioned minor league meant to feed mod. Look at the past five years' history and the development of stock racing: how many drivers have moved up, won a stock race or two, and then been "promoted" to mod? Only two big names come immediately to my mind: Bobby Flack and Ray Darroch, and with Jeff Dayger right on their tails (if I missed somebody, apologies).

Meanwhile, I could list 10 or 15 guys who have been winning stock races since 2001 who are still winning stock races in 2006. Stock has seen its own motor development, battery technology, chassis design, and even body molding. Whether or not we like it, it's here to stay as a nationally competitive class, unless it gets forced out. But, why fight it? If people like it at some level, if companies are making money on the products, if the racing is competitive, then it's good for our industry. Embrace it and focus on the other reasons why people don't seem to want to race mod at the club level.

You get people to race mod at the club level, and bingo, you'll get more people racing mod at the national level. Racing always has and always will depend on and be driven by what happens at the local track. We can sit here and argue about the national scene, but it represents probably 2% of the business in the industry.
One of the better posts about stock/mod in here...
I ( and many others ) see stock as the beginner/novice class and 19 and lower as the progressive forms/levels of racing.

The real question that needs to be answered is:
should racers be classified by the driver or the equipment?
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:22 AM   #1284
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Well, that's no good. Now $219.

<--thread hijacking, now over.
You gots email.....
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:57 AM   #1285
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Nova,

Me being some what of a beginner racer at least for RC cars, they should be classified by the driver in what ever class. I say this because you can have a beginner show up to the track with 2k worth of equipment and still can't drive worth a damn. We need to get to where if you win at a regianol or national level then you are required to move up to the next class. This would in theory help balance out the low turn out in Mod. But then again it could also run people away from the hobby. In some ways what is being dicussed in this thread is a no win situation, as everyone has there own opion as to what will happen with ROAR's decision. Just my thoughts.

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Old 12-14-2006, 10:02 AM   #1286
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How about some sort of national ranking system, based on how you have finished in a class at national or regional level events and if they are ranked above a certain point for a set period of time, they need to be moved up to the next level..
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:41 PM   #1287
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Originally Posted by scottwk1
How about some sort of national ranking system, based on how you have finished in a class at national or regional level events and if they are ranked above a certain point for a set period of time, they need to be moved up to the next level..
There's no good way to do it. Perhaps on a national level at larger events based on past performance, but not at the club level. Let's also say that none of these guys made any national or other regional events. Most club racers never race outside their clubs.

Let's say we have 6 guys in 1/12 stock in our club. With the following finishes on average.

44/8:09
41/8:05
37/8:01
36/8:05
32/8:01
31/8:08

You've only got the 6 guys, all with varying abilities. What do you do, seperate them so there are only 2 other guys you get to race with in your heat?

You either get one good heat of racing, or nobody to race with at all.
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:48 PM   #1288
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Originally Posted by scottwk1
How about some sort of national ranking system, based on how you have finished in a class at national or regional level events and if they are ranked above a certain point for a set period of time, they need to be moved up to the next level..
The other problem with a regional ranking system is who's fast in your region may not even be fast "at all" in other regions.

I won stock buggy at our regionals in Wyoming. Does this qualify me to race with or be on the same level as a driver like Cuffs? Nope.

20 guys showed up for our regional, 400 showed up for the other national event. My win is NOT equivalent to his, at all.

There is no easy answer either.
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:44 PM   #1289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
The other problem with a regional ranking system is who's fast in your region may not even be fast "at all" in other regions.

I won stock buggy at our regionals in Wyoming. Does this qualify me to race with or be on the same level as a driver like Cuffs? Nope.

20 guys showed up for our regional, 400 showed up for the other national event. My win is NOT equivalent to his, at all.

There is no easy answer either.

Actually there is already a system that does account for different levels of competition. I raced go karts at a local track and I had to sign up for a ranking system that put me in the national ranking system from day one.

It keep track of your margin of victory and the level of the other drivers you race against. It gave "pro points" and if you raced anywhere in the country you go either +/- pro points depending on how you finished and who you raced against. If you raced a bunch of guys that weren't ranked high, you got little points, if you raced against highly ranked you got more.

IT ranked regionally and nationally if i remember. System all ready in use, already working.
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:49 PM   #1290
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http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...ghlight=points

Points system allowing racers to club race and accumulate points without travelling.
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