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Old 12-13-2006, 03:05 PM   #1261
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Josh,

I have a proposal for you.

Since your track is hosting the carpet Nats, put in for a deviation. Allow people in Mod Touring the option of running 5 cells AT the reduced weight (1350g I believe).

If you get that deviation, I'll race 5-cell mod at the Nats. If ROAR (and everyone else) wants testing, I'll help in providing it.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:06 PM   #1262
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And the difference between your son, or mine, winning a national event and picking our pockets to do it, or picking the pockets of a manufacturer would be what?

Either way, bottom line, he paid for nothing, and won.
As parents it is our right to spend stupid amounts of money to make our kids happy. We do it because we want to, not for profit or marketing and we will do it no matter the skill level of our children.

The Factories will tend to support the most talented for marketing purposes.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:07 PM   #1263
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
At a bigger event, I'd like a shot at the better racers, that's why people go.

If you are fortunate enough to be in the .01% of club racers and have a guy in your club getting paid to race, you are one lucky person. You get to test yourself against, and ask questions of one of the best drivers in North America on a weekly bassis.
You are an old timer like me. This is not how it is any more.

I know of nobody who gets paid to race in stock or 19-turn but it is reported that many are paid based on performance.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:11 PM   #1264
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Stephen…..if you are racing stock and making top 5’s or higher and not getting any compensation then you need a new agent…


The whole issue with paid racers in stock is silly. When you have racers saying that their sponsor tells them “well if you want to be sponsored you need to race stock!” What does that statement tell you about what your “Team” thinks of you as a racer? Don’t forget that some of these teams are run by mod racers themselves that like to collect that “fat paycheck or bonus check” so they might be inclined to keep them down in stock so they can continue to get that easy money…as their isn’t that much competition in mod right now it’s the same 8 to 10 guys at every event….Im not saying its easy to make the a main at national events in mod by no means but if the true fast stock racers moved up what would happen? If the fast stock racers moved up to mod then these same guys might be more worried about keeping their sponsorship and paycheck(s) b/c the new kids are faster then them and now have moved them into the B mains. When you can watch people like Flack, Darroach and Dayger move to mod and make mains why doesn’t the rest of the fast stock racers see that and go along with them? I know some don’t have a chance to really race mod at home b/c most racing is done on the stock level at a majority of clubs across the US. But the others that can race mod don’t and really what they are doing is just ruining the stock class for beginners/weekend warriors. Basically if you have been racing for 4 or 5 years and race stock and have been in A mains at national events for the last 2 or 4 years then its time to move along….its like a 16 year old playing little league what’s the point?
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:14 PM   #1265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSmooth
Josh,

I have a proposal for you.

Since your track is hosting the carpet Nats, put in for a deviation. Allow people in Mod Touring the option of running 5 cells AT the reduced weight (1350g I believe).

If you get that deviation, I'll race 5-cell mod at the Nats. If ROAR (and everyone else) wants testing, I'll help in providing it.
If you are so eager to save your equipment, race at the legal weight? Or run a turn or two less and not bother with changing your car setup or trying to reduce weight.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:14 PM   #1266
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:15 PM   #1267
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
I know of nobody who gets paid to race in stock or 19-turn but it is reported that many are paid based on performance.
So how does this keep club racers from coming out to the track?

Define "paid". If I swing a good deal, what am I gonna get if I win stock at a club event?

How much if I manage to beat the other 6 guys that show up to a ROAR regional?

How much is it worth to me, if I have some kind of deal, to win stock at Vegas?
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:16 PM   #1268
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You know what I wonder... Do the sponsored guys who get the free stuff claim the stuff they get as income on their taxes. If the companies are writing off the stuff as a business expense or advertising eventually the IRS is going to look at someone and want to know where it's all going....

Ooops.... That looks like a big can of worms I just opened....
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:28 PM   #1269
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In my (humble) opinion, we have to stop arguing about stock racing as if it were an officially sanctioned minor league meant to feed mod. Look at the past five years' history and the development of stock racing: how many drivers have moved up, won a stock race or two, and then been "promoted" to mod? Only two big names come immediately to my mind: Bobby Flack and Ray Darroch, and with Jeff Dayger right on their tails (if I missed somebody, apologies).

Meanwhile, I could list 10 or 15 guys who have been winning stock races since 2001 who are still winning stock races in 2006. Stock has seen its own motor development, battery technology, chassis design, and even body molding. Whether or not we like it, it's here to stay as a nationally competitive class, unless it gets forced out. But, why fight it? If people like it at some level, if companies are making money on the products, if the racing is competitive, then it's good for our industry. Embrace it and focus on the other reasons why people don't seem to want to race mod at the club level.

You get people to race mod at the club level, and bingo, you'll get more people racing mod at the national level. Racing always has and always will depend on and be driven by what happens at the local track. We can sit here and argue about the national scene, but it represents probably 2% of the business in the industry.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:36 PM   #1270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSmooth
Glad to see Joel and Josh on board with this. 5 Cells...YES!

And this whole 6-cell "Industry Standard" thing is bunk.
If memory serves me correctly, Tamiya started the 6-cell stick pack formation and un-offically set the industry standard. However, before Tamiya had a released the 6-cell hump pack they had a 5-cell pack used for their Holiday Buggy.

Perhaps they were on to something 20+ years ago.

Seriously...its good to see this level of debate...whether or not ROAR is taking this under advisement is another story. Other than Adrian's earlier post, has anyone for the ROAR electric committee posted their official position on the the subject...other than ROAR will take a wait and see approach on the subject?
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:41 PM   #1271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSmooth
Josh,

I have a proposal for you.

Since your track is hosting the carpet Nats, put in for a deviation. Allow people in Mod Touring the option of running 5 cells AT the reduced weight (1350g I believe).

If you get that deviation, I'll race 5-cell mod at the Nats. If ROAR (and everyone else) wants testing, I'll help in providing it.

Why the need for the reduced rate? Most racers need to add weight to begin with. The rules require "up to" 6-cells. If a driver uses 5-cells in modified racing to make the car more managable to drive, why not take advantage of this. No need for a deviation to reduce the weight limit.

Now if someone elects to run 5-cells versus 6-cells and performs without any deviation...that in itself would support the proposed change to cell configuration.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:01 PM   #1272
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Okay, let's say I agree with that. Define "reduce cost". That's an empty, no direction statement, like "get more people to race". Okay, HOW!!!???

How do you propose to reduce costs? A stock motor is like $30, a Mod $60, good 4200 mah 6-cell packs can be had for $60-$65. You're gonna probably want a few of each. Is dropping the price of a $30 motor to $20 going to get people to the track?

Just how much cheaper can it be made? Not an argumentative statement, I mean I am curious, I want to know.

You can get started in touring for about $300, and if you want the BEST OF EVERYTHING, you might plop down $1200. That $1200 setup CAN and HAS won the nationals, and included charger and batts. Where is the line drawn? A brand new 4-wheeler is $8000, you can just as easily drop $1200 on a paintball gun. How much is to much, relative to getting people to the track?

I just looked, we stock about 8 different 1/12 cars, the CEFX is the most expensive... C'mon Josh, let's practice a little of what you're preachin'... Sorry man, there's some tongue in cheek humor there, but you gotta admit, there's some great irony in that observation.
Bob - If you check those kits I'm pretty sure ours was the only one with good tires (pink & purple), a body, titanium tie rods, ti axles, tie king pins and .110 graphite (.030 thicker than all other 1/12 kits). We've stripped the tires and body out so racers can choose and get the kit at or just under $200.00.... The old kit sold in hobby shops for around $225. CEFX was only that expensive at Stormer - $270.....
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:10 PM   #1273
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Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
Bob - If you check those kits I'm pretty sure ours was the only one with good tires (pink & purple), a body, titanium tie rods, ti axles, tie king pins and .110 graphite (.030 thicker than all other 1/12 kits). We've stripped the tires and body out so racers can choose and get the kit at or under $200.00....
You know I'm just messin' with ya...

But seriously, how much cheaper could it possibly be? That's all I was pointing out. If we gave everybody on earth a CEFX car, would turnouts go through the roof? Nope. Wonder why? Can't get any cheaper than free.

I offered our club touring rookies free batterys last week to test if they showed up.. Not one of them showed that particular week.

It's not about free, it's not about expensive, it's about fun. Where racing is fun, people show up to have fun and race. Where it's not, it's full of people that complain and talk about how that other guy that punted him is a moron.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:11 PM   #1274
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I did a little research and edited my post...lol..
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:16 PM   #1275
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Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
Derek - Nitro to Electric can't be any more different.... Nitro racing doesn't have fuel that comes out every 6 months to 1 year that increases power by 10-15%..... Yes, everything improves but the rate is nowhere near the same.

Example - 2003 IFMAR WC the top speed was 72mph in 1/8 nitro on-road. This year we have only ran 68mph as the new bodies have more downforce thus slower top speed. Lap times are about .3 faster with the new bodies (on a 20 second a lap track). A 1.5% increase....

Electric has picked up at least .5-1 second in lap times on a 12 second a lap track in the same 3 year time span.... A 4-8% increase.....
So nitro has had a 6% reduction in laptimes, with differences in bodies
That same reduction in cell voltage would be 0.4 volts total. Which is not 1.2 volts.


But nitro engines definitely put out more power than years ago, although we didn't have a tool to measure, the engines have become about 15% more powerful, if not more.
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