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Old 12-13-2006, 01:22 PM   #1231
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t. thomas

exellent response......my sentiments exactly....

i find it hard to beleive that if ppl like Joel and Josh think it is a good idea that it is real bad..... i really dont care....

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Old 12-13-2006, 01:29 PM   #1232
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Kevin - The mfg's know that there is a price limit for the consumer. They CAN MAKE a $200.00 motor or a $1,000 speedo but who is going to race it?? I garantee that muahdib4 isn't going to spend the money on this.... This is the problem. The components are out there but they simply cost way too much for the consumer to handle. We need to reduce cost and get more people into racing rather than raise costs that would push people away.

Everyone needs to stop looking at this as slowing the cars down. Compared with a few years ago we are going so much faster than in the past. We can reduce the power source in the cars thus reducing the heat and force that is destroying electronics as well as the suspension parts themselves (wear and tear and impacts).....

I always use example so many have seen this this but for muahdib4 here's a little real world data:

Akron, Ohio 1998 ROAR Carpet Oval Nats:

TQ 63 Laps 4:03 w/6-cell

Akron, Ohio 2002 ROAR Carpet Oval Nats:

TQ 62 Laps 4:00 w/4-cell

In 2006, I believe the track record is around 68+ laps with 4 cells!!! This is the advancement of technology. Deny it if you guys want but it's right in front of our faces. It only took 4 years to match the speeds from 4-6 cell. Now, 4 years later look at where it is... It's only going to continue....

muahdib4 - A little background info for you. I'm 28 years old, been a pro since I was 14 years old and started racing at 9. I now own my own r/c track, hobby shop and r/c car company (CEFX). R/C is my life, trust me, I only want it to thrive. As I test more and hopefully others who are testing can also post their data as well.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:29 PM   #1233
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My question to manufacturers is how do you want to slow down electric, even though there are 4 different speed levels out there, and do nothing for the nitro sedan segment.

Consistency through the hobby is what we need. Why is one segment more popular than another (off road nitro) when it totally contradicts what is thought to be good for another?


Let the market decide these things.


Offer a slower class, and if people race it great. If josh wants to run 5-cell at the next race...good for him. But don't make a run based on these arguments of people in Florida blowing motors, or a racing in Iraq isn't popular.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:31 PM   #1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
Kevin - The mfg's know that there is a price limit for the consumer. They CAN MAKE a $200.00 motor or a $1,000 speedo but who is going to race it?? I garantee that muahdib4 isn't going to spend the money on this.... This is the problem. The components are out there but they simply cost way too much for the consumer to handle. We need to reduce cost and get more people into racing rather than raise costs that would push people away.

Everyone needs to stop looking at this as slowing the cars down. Compared with a few years ago we are going so much faster than in the past. We can reduce the power source in the cars thus reducing the heat and force that is destroying electronics as well as the suspension parts themselves (wear and tear and impacts).....

I always use example so many have seen this this but for muahdib4 here's a little real world data:

Akron, Ohio 1998 ROAR Carpet Oval Nats:

TQ 63 Laps 4:03 w/6-cell

Akron, Ohio 2002 ROAR Carpet Oval Nats:

TQ 62 Laps 4:00 w/4-cell

In 2006, I believe the track record is around 68+ laps with 4 cells!!! This is the advancement of technology. Deny it if you guys want but it's right in front of our faces. It only took 4 years to match the speeds from 4-6 cell. Now, 4 years later look at where it is... It's only going to continue....

muahdib4 - A little background info for you. I'm 28 years old, been a pro since I was 14 years old and started racing at 9. I now own my own r/c track, hobby shop and r/c car company (CEFX). R/C is my life, trust me, I only want it to thrive. As I test more and hopefully others who are testing can also post their data as well.

It's called evolution.

I'd dare to have somebody post speeds when the race NASCAR on the beach and raced with 70 OCT fuel.

Motorsports have never reduced the actual power source...aka fuel.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:35 PM   #1235
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Today`s 4200`s R nothin but 7cells packed into 6cell`s....

A 5 cell 4200 is faster then the old 6cell 3300 sanyo`s....


Batterys are maybe the one thing in this sport that have improved & change to the point they R twice as fast compared to batterys three four year`s ago....
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:37 PM   #1236
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Derek - Nitro to Electric can't be any more different.... Nitro racing doesn't have fuel that comes out every 6 months to 1 year that increases power by 10-15%..... Yes, everything improves but the rate is nowhere near the same.

Example - 2003 IFMAR WC the top speed was 72mph in 1/8 nitro on-road. This year we have only ran 68mph as the new bodies have more downforce thus slower top speed. Lap times are about .3 faster with the new bodies (on a 20 second a lap track). A 1.5% increase....

Electric has picked up at least .5-1 second in lap times on a 12 second a lap track in the same 3 year time span.... A 4-8% increase.....
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:40 PM   #1237
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I believe F1 has reduced fuel... I remember the special bio suits the fuel guys would wear...lol... I also think they've reduced engine sizes.... NASCAR has restrictor plates, compression ratios that have changed.....
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:43 PM   #1238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry


Batterys are maybe the one thing in this sport that have improved & change to the point they R twice as fast compared to batterys three four year`s ago....
Yep.

From 1986-1997: Batteries went from 1200mAh to 2000mAh. 11 years, 800 mAh

From 1997-2007: Batteries went from 2000mAh to 4300mAh. 10 years, 2300 mAh

It's time for a change.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:44 PM   #1239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
Derek - Nitro to Electric can't be any more different.... Nitro racing doesn't have fuel that comes out every 6 months to 1 year that increases power by 10-15%..... Yes, everything improves but the rate is nowhere near the same.

Example - 2003 IFMAR WC the top speed was 72mph in 1/8 nitro on-road. This year we have only ran 68mph as the new bodies have more downforce thus slower top speed. Lap times are about .3 faster with the new bodies (on a 20 second a lap track). A 1.5% increase....

Electric has picked up at least .5-1 second in lap times on a 12 second a lap track in the same 3 year time span.... A 4-8% increase.....
Great post Josh! Good luck racing brother...
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:45 PM   #1240
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Also - for the Nitro Sedans there is already talk/proposals for 3 chamber pipes with different baffles to reduce power and noise. 1/8 On-road pipes are also going to get an overhaul soon to reduce power and noise....
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:48 PM   #1241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
I believe F1 has reduced fuel... I remember the special bio suits the fuel guys would wear...lol...
Yep, in the 80s F1 teams ran fuel that was 84% Toluene and it was highly toxic. It was an octane booster, and is now illegal.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:55 PM   #1242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
Kevin - The mfg's know that there is a price limit for the consumer. They CAN MAKE a $200.00 motor or a $1,000 speedo but who is going to race it?? I garantee that muahdib4 isn't going to spend the money on this.... This is the problem. The components are out there but they simply cost way too much for the consumer to handle. We need to reduce cost and get more people into racing rather than raise costs that would push people away.

Everyone needs to stop looking at this as slowing the cars down. Compared with a few years ago we are going so much faster than in the past. We can reduce the power source in the cars thus reducing the heat and force that is destroying electronics as well as the suspension parts themselves (wear and tear and impacts).....

I always use example so many have seen this this but for muahdib4 here's a little real world data:

Akron, Ohio 1998 ROAR Carpet Oval Nats:

TQ 63 Laps 4:03 w/6-cell

Akron, Ohio 2002 ROAR Carpet Oval Nats:

TQ 62 Laps 4:00 w/4-cell

In 2006, I believe the track record is around 68+ laps with 4 cells!!! This is the advancement of technology. Deny it if you guys want but it's right in front of our faces. It only took 4 years to match the speeds from 4-6 cell. Now, 4 years later look at where it is... It's only going to continue....

muahdib4 - A little background info for you. I'm 28 years old, been a pro since I was 14 years old and started racing at 9. I now own my own r/c track, hobby shop and r/c car company (CEFX). R/C is my life, trust me, I only want it to thrive. As I test more and hopefully others who are testing can also post their data as well.
Your right..I won't be buying any of it. I'll spend time at my local track practicing and head to Memphis for the TCS races. They are slow and fun and still use 6-cells with people actually racing instead of pushing the equipment past what it can handle. Somehow...I just don't understand how they go slower without having to redesign the industry (since most require 6-cell stick packs)....hmmm.

BTW..I'm not knocking your experience or have a single thing against you. You are standing up for the side you think is right, even if I (and most others) don't agree. If they change the cells then I won't be racing TCs really, like I said...Minis are just to much fun and I'd stick with those and give nitro off-road a shot. I'm just not going to spend the money on something until it shows some stability. Until ROAR stops running away from every new technology (though I commend them for at least allowing brushless in Mod) and making major changes every 6 months that would cause someone to have to spend more $$$ and have less fun, then I'll stick with TCS that doesn't allow PROs and maybe Nitro Off-Road that just says "Run what'cha Brung and Run it as Fast as you Can".
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:55 PM   #1243
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One thing I keep seeing in this thread is newer racers saying that they get put off when they go racing because of all the super serious/sponsored stock racers, now THAT is a problem.
Newbies don't want to come along to race and get blown off the track, sure they don't expect to win, but they need to go away with the thought that they could win if they drove slightly better.


On a slightly different tangent, we changed mod here with a 12turn 24deg limit, guess what..........mod numbers are increasing quite nicely, not up to the same level as when we only ran 4mins but getting there, overall wattage is down (same as removing 1 or 2 cells) so people aren't blowing stuff up left and right. (I tell a lie SOME people are blowing stuff up but they blew stuff up with open motors as well, and I'm not talking about newbies here either).
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:01 PM   #1244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4

BTW..I'm not knocking your experience or have a single thing against you. You are standing up for the side you think is right, even if I (and most others) don't agree.
If you're the one that wants hard data to back up any request for a change, be careful by saying "most" disagree with reducing the cell count. You can't have it both ways.

Have someone set up a poll on here instead. Don't make an assumption that "most" agree with you.
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:08 PM   #1245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fathead
One thing I keep seeing in this thread is newer racers saying that they get put off when they go racing because of all the super serious/sponsored stock racers, now THAT is a problem.
Newbies don't want to come along to race and get blown off the track, sure they don't expect to win, but they need to go away with the thought that they could win if they drove slightly better.


On a slightly different tangent, we changed mod here with a 12turn 24deg limit, guess what..........mod numbers are increasing quite nicely, not up to the same level as when we only ran 4mins but getting there, overall wattage is down (same as removing 1 or 2 cells) so people aren't blowing stuff up left and right. (I tell a lie SOME people are blowing stuff up but they blew stuff up with open motors as well, and I'm not talking about newbies here either).
No one wants to hear Motor Limits or that Sponsored guys are hurting turnout....
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