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Old 12-08-2006, 10:57 AM   #1081
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Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
I see that stock/novice/intermediate class is where the problem lyes.

Lets just look closer at say my local track.
The newer guys(ones just really getting into racing) are forced to race with the likes of IIC champs and A main racers of other larger events.
They spend most of the time trying to avoid these so called stock racers and never really get to race a line.
Now you can say Oh than there needs to be three classes of stock then...PRO, Sportsman and ROokie...
Well thats kind of not the point....
Stock is suppose to get the Novice into a intermediate, than a sportsman by knowing how to setup his or her car better and not having to always buy new packs and motors cause the Pro's are tossed in because of low turnout.
I think you limit stock to only non-sponsored drivers, partial or full factory.
Guys who sand bag get told bring a 19T next week or you can not race. Its that simple.
Heck I think stock should be only for Non-Sponsored drivers, for large races especially.
Could you see it.
Roar Carpet Nats.
Pro/near pro drivers can only race Mod or 19T (cause if they only had one than Sponsors would raze cain for sure)
Quit the sand bagging for sales.
Stock should be for the up and coming drivers, not the already fast and I want a second trophy class.
That rule alone would solve half this how do we get more people into the hobby. Heck it could only help the hobby. There are too many peeps who buy 1.245+ packs and buy only the top 1% of motors and buy brand new tires every run just to be competitive in stock racing. That turns off the newbie and sends them right over to Nitro, or off road. Heck I got so sick of it I went over to the dirty side for while.

But Roar really needs to do something as it is out of hand on how much people are spending just to try to keep up with the guys who are already winning A mains, cause they have sponsors who provide them with the top 1% of batts and motors...Seems a bit unfair in a Novice created class.

Sorry for the rant,
I moved to 19T as at least there is a chance someone will break, or make an error in 5 minutes.
-Shookie <><

Mr Shookie, the biggest problem with this HOBBY is Sponsors! I guess this is a side effect of the internet and being able to communicate with people and companies that you would have never known of 10 years ago.

I guess like everything else is it's going to have to get worse before it gets better.

If I were racing late model at my local 1/4 mile Oval for fun, out of my own pocket, and every week Tony Stewart, Jr, Jimmie Johnson started showing up with their Cup teams and fielding a late model I'd be pretty PO'd and probably find another class or just another hobby.
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:22 PM   #1082
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
Mr Shookie, the biggest problem with this HOBBY is Sponsors! I guess this is a side effect of the internet and being able to communicate with people and companies that you would have never known of 10 years ago.

I guess like everything else is it's going to have to get worse before it gets better.

If I were racing late model at my local 1/4 mile Oval for fun, out of my own pocket, and every week Tony Stewart, Jr, Jimmie Johnson started showing up with their Cup teams and fielding a late model I'd be pretty PO'd and probably find another class or just another hobby.
I actually think this is part of the "life cycle" of a racing class. The average guy likes to have fun and race, once pro's and "hardcore" racers see a popular class they ruin the fun, and the class is on a track of lower attendance.

My examples are Monster Trucks. It was very popular when all the "bucks" raced it. Then Pro drivers were sent to big races and the class died. 1/8-scale buggy was similar. Touring cars are the same.


Also, somebody mention speed as compared to Nikko and all those cheaper cars...You know what they run? 6-cell.

INDUSTRY STANDARD.


There still has been no real MOTIVE explained for this, and until somebody can post a reason why this is being thought of, since it changes with every other post, arguing why it should be changed is worthless.

But right now the easiest way to go slower is.....ready. Run a slower motor.
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:30 PM   #1083
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
A Johnson or Mabuchi motor costs about $16 and won't require the same level of maintainence. You can buy a new motor once a month and it would cost you less then "servicing" the current stock motor. New racers need it to be simple for a while until they're ready to step up to a rebuildable motor. They will be able to race with the Silver-Can and learn about motors and rebuilding them from the racers at the track who "should" be helping the rookies anyway. The whole "servicing" motors thing won't be important soon anyway since everyone's going to go brushless.
I thought I'd chime in here about NZ's mabuchi class.
We call it stock.
27t is prostock.
We are limited to 1500Mah batteries so there is no voltage war.Our most popular battery is the Sanyo 1300. Packs cost about $30NZD compared to 3800's which cost around $100-$120NZD (Roughly)
These motors are run anywheres from about 4.5 to3.8 FDR or lower depending on track length.
They have loads of torque and as long as you dont cook em you dont need to change them every month. They actually get faster with age. If you take some care with run in you can get them surprisingly fast.
I have run the same motor for the past year and am only now preparing the next one for 2007. ( I was gonna steal the motor out of my sons mini as it has run a year now with very little loading and is quite fast )
As a class it teaches smooth driving and good setup, because if you take a corner wrong or crash you are punished and have very little chance of making back your lost ground.
At the end of a race, no need to rebuild or cut comms, no farting around with battery packs(ni-cd), just clean out the motor and go have a chat with the guys while waiting for your next round.
It is one of our most enjoyable classes with big fields and very close racing at little or no extra cost.

Honestly, you guys should try it.

Racing is not about speed, its about racing and having fun.

Remember, it doesnt matter if it feels or looks slow to you...its gonna feel fast to a rookie while he learns to keep his car on the track.

Sorry to butt in on your thread.
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Old 12-08-2006, 01:03 PM   #1084
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Originally Posted by loopedeloop
Honestly, you guys should try it.
It sounds like a fun class.

If we try it here and it becomes popular it will end up with a bunch of factory drivers and sponsors ruining it.
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:05 PM   #1085
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
Mr Shookie, the biggest problem with this HOBBY is Sponsors! I guess this is a side effect of the internet and being able to communicate with people and companies that you would have never known of 10 years ago.
Just to give you something to think about, 95% of racers under 16 years old are FULL SPONSORED drivers. Don't think so? They pay for nothing, get all their cars for free, batterys for free, motors for free. All entry fees are paid, including meals, and all travel is 100% paid for.
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:05 PM   #1086
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
Each track/club/hobby shop has as much responsibility as ROAR when it comes to getting new racers to the track. Their existence depends on it. ROAR, for their rules package alone and as it exists now, is the most important entity involved in our hobby. Without it, there will be no R/C racing.

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We the drivers are our own worst enemy - racing in classes where we don't belong and abusing our equipment until it fails then blaming others for our own incompetence.
Rick, you need to be president of ROAR!!!
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:23 PM   #1087
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Just to give you something to think about, 95% of racers under 16 years old are FULL SPONSORED drivers. Don't think so? They pay for nothing, get all their cars for free, batterys for free, motors for free. All entry fees are paid, including meals, and all travel is 100% paid for.
Not only that, for my son, but I'm self sponsored too!!!!!
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:42 PM   #1088
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Are you insinuating my e-mails are Spam or something Dawn???
Oh, no.. never yours Gary.... in fact, my spam filter notifies me when you do email with loud bells and blinking lights. Its a special moment of my day...

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Old 12-08-2006, 04:57 PM   #1089
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
Interestingly, electric R/C racing as a whole was more popular when stock motors were not rebuildable.
And when we raced more in malls, at car shows, etc... WHERE SPECTATORS were. Now we have "better?" secluded locations in industrial sections of town, away from the public eye (I'm sure that has nothing to do with it....)

For the record, that same rationale "when stock motors were NOT rebuildable" applys to this statement, racing was more popular back "when we ran 1/10 pan".

<--still enjoys 1/10 pan.
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:20 PM   #1090
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Oh, no.. never yours Gary.... in fact, my spam filter notifies me when you do email with loud bells and blinking lights. Its a special moment of my day...

That CANT be the same Gary I know
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:36 PM   #1091
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Switching to 540s is more logical than making a silly rule for one segment of electric.

Instead of asking everybody to buy new batteries, motors (to move up form stock) chargers and such, create a slower class with a slower motor. This way every car, charger, discharger, whatever still works in every car, 6-cell can still be used in RTRs, off-road and with normal people.

Creating some change because Europe and 12 people in Florida throw winds on a back straigh of a gas track is insane. If you run carpet indoor learn to drive so you don't crash. Saying you throw a wind on a big track is the equaivalent from over-reving you real car for 3 miles and thinking it won't blow. If you're going to gear a car for the back straight it's going to suck on the rest of the track, if I ran nitro and reved the engine down the back straight in 1st, the engine would blow, it's why there are 2-speeds.

Motors blowing up is NOT a problem for 95% of the industry and racers. "speed" isn't to fast, most people just can't drive. So rather than making everything change for things that don't exist. Start a Silver can class.

But to make it more appealing instead of those ugly motors, design them to look cooler, lock the comms, throw some blue LEDs on them, and poeple will race them if they want.


NOBODY asked for this rule change, so there's some other motive behind it. Is it brushless motor companies starting rumor to help kill brushed? To help stop LIPO?

But this change is an emxpensive and shortsighted thing to even think about.

RACING was more popular year ago, because we didn't have 300 classes to divide racers.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:25 PM   #1092
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So, because 50 people in the world blow up motors that means stock class is too fast. If stock class is too fast that means that less people will enter the hobby. If less people enter the hobby that means we must change the industry standard. If the industry standard is changed then more people will race stock. If more people race stock then more people will race mod. If more people race mod then we must use 4 cells. If we must use 4 cells it is because pro's are sandbagging in 19 turn.....
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:12 PM   #1093
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
So, because 50 people in the world blow up motors that means stock class is too fast. If stock class is too fast that means that less people will enter the hobby. If less people enter the hobby that means we must change the industry standard. If the industry standard is changed then more people will race stock. If more people race stock then more people will race mod. If more people race mod then we must use 4 cells. If we must use 4 cells it is because pro's are sandbagging in 19 turn.....


Umm yeah! uhhh sort of...well maybe...kinda sorta...in a round about way. Sure!!!
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:36 PM   #1094
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Just a thought:
Most racers at the nats level or the big races like to run 2 classes, so:
Mod TC would have to run as a second class - mod 1/12
19t TC would have to run as a second class - 19t 1/12
Stock TC would have to run as a second class - stock 1/12

That would allow the faster stock drivers to make the A in 19t and not be held to stock by the factory sponsors and competing with the big boys.
Should open stock up to more people working their up the ladder.

That would give you 6 well filled classes plus of course the Masters class for us old farts.

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Old 12-09-2006, 09:59 AM   #1095
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Derek, SOMEBODY asked for this rule change, and it appears to be Adrian M. He saw a problem, spoke to some people about it, and made a recommendation to ROAR based on that. And there must be a problem if Japan experimented with 4 cell and Europe went to 5 cell. You can disagree with the idea, but don't assume no one want this because no one you know wants it.

Tol Thomas made a good suggestion. Maybe it's time to revise the rules for 27 turn motors, what we call stock motors. Make full armatures and stand up brushes mandatory, and maybe even change the timing to 5 degrees. Even if you say stock wasn't supposed to be an entry level class, it was meant to be a class where everyone has the same motor. It should be up to individual tracks to come up with a spec brush and spring combination. This way the motors are as close to equal as possible.

And there's still a class for motors tuners, it's called 19 turn! Do whatever you want to the motor, as long as it's a 19 turn arm and 24 degrees timing.
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