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Old 12-08-2006, 09:00 AM   #1066
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Rick, the flaw in this statement is that, unlike a Mabuchi, you can actually service and properly clean a Stock motor. The life and longevity of a Stock motor is much better than the average Mabuchi. Conceptually though, a good 6-cell Mabuchi would be about the same speed as a 4-cell stock. And having run 6-cell Mabuchi in Touring Cars for 4 years, I love it. It's more about chassis setup and driving than motor...but the voltage race is a big deal too.
I am talking about a beginner class. Service and cleaning motors is part of the problem. A novice should not have to worry about servicing motors in addition to simply trying to get around the track.

Interestingly, electric R/C racing as a whole was more popular when stock motors were not rebuildable.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:02 AM   #1067
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Rick, the flaw in this statement is that, unlike a Mabuchi, you can actually service and properly clean a Stock motor. The life and longevity of a Stock motor is much better than the average Mabuchi. Conceptually though, a good 6-cell Mabuchi would be about the same speed as a 4-cell stock. And having run 6-cell Mabuchi in Touring Cars for 4 years, I love it. It's more about chassis setup and driving than motor...but the voltage race is a big deal too.
To "service" a stock motor properly means changing brushes springs and the like...also buying a lathe and armatures and other stuff right? Divide that cost by each week of racing and how much is that? Many people will at least change the brushes every week and that's at least $10 right? A Johnson or Mabuchi motor costs about $16 and won't require the same level of maintainence. You can buy a new motor once a month and it would cost you less then "servicing" the current stock motor. New racers need it to be simple for a while until they're ready to step up to a rebuildable motor. They will be able to race with the Silver-Can and learn about motors and rebuilding them from the racers at the track who "should" be helping the rookies anyway. The whole "servicing" motors thing won't be important soon anyway since everyone's going to go brushless.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:02 AM   #1068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
Interestingly, electric R/C racing as a whole was more popular when stock motors were not rebuildable.
VERY TRUE!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:20 AM   #1069
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We also didn't have Nitro like we do today....
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:42 AM   #1070
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Originally Posted by nf_ekt
Alot of arguing that new/novice racers need to have slower cars to learn with, so I say why not a 4C stock class for these newer guys to get going with, then keep everything basically the same as far as the existing classes? Let mod guys choose 4 or 6 cell. Some tracks may be better suited for one or another. Tight with low-to-med traction? 4C. Wide open? Let em' rip....Anyone agree with this???
Few people would buy the 4c stock cars. We all think when we get our first car we will be one of the fast guys within a week. We wont have to buy another car once that happens.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:46 AM   #1071
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We also didn't have Nitro like we do today....
Perhaps that's the answer...instead of forcing 4-cell....ban nitro...it's too fast...and the races are too long making people lose focus over long periods of time...

The cars are heavier too which makes them break parts when they crash...not to mention the expense of setting up and maintaining a race level nitro system...have you *seen* the price of modified engines?

I know...it sounds ridiculous...but a lot of the arguments for dropping from 6 cells to 4 can also be used to eliminate nitro racing..(either on or offroad)...but it's not having problems...

I think that one of the largest hurdles for 1/10 electric touring is VISIBILITY...the tracks are not out in the open and visible to passers by...someone has to look to find it..it's not somethign you stumble across accidentally..
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:56 AM   #1072
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I still think newcomers clean their motors out, change brushes (screw-terminals, not solder), and use comm cleaning sticks too. And in the event that they do want or "need" to have their comm cut, I know I have cut more than a few arms for people at the track who can't afford lathes. True, brushless is more popular, the vast majority of beginners have cars with brushed motors.

Rick, yes and no about the popularity vs rebuildable stock motors. I think on-road turnout peaked more than a few years after rebuildable stock motors hit the scene in...what, like '94 or '95? The industry is simply more diluted than ever right now. Look at how many classes you have, keeping stock, 19T, and mod out of it. You have 3 electric off road classes that we've pretty much had for 20 years, 1/8 buggy, truggy, monster truck, unlimited monster truck, 1/18 on road, 1/18th off road 2wd, 1/18th off road 4wd, 1/12 on road, 1/12 oval, pan car oval, 1/10 scale sedan, and even more. There are simply so many choices that, while there may be as many hobbyists, they're spread out more amongst more classes.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:58 AM   #1073
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I'm with ya Chris. We should take all nitro motors and dump them in the ocean. Hehe. If we could get some tooth fairy (or motor fairy) to magically change all nitro motors into brushless, this world would be a better place
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:11 AM   #1074
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for the sake of my email box.... could somebody change the title of this thread?

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Old 12-08-2006, 10:15 AM   #1075
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Well, I do commend ROAR for taking the time to investigate what could amount to a drastic change to the hobby instead of making a rush decision...

and yes I DO feel sorry for Dawn's poor mailbox...and anyone on the ExComm...

Perhaps getting it changed to "ROAR NOT to go 4-cell..at least in 2007...2008 maybe?"
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:19 AM   #1076
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If the root problem that this proposed change was to address is a need to bring new people into the hobby...perhaps another new, constructive thread regarding ways that we ALL can help bring more people into the hobby.

It is not just the responsibility, but for all of us who are interested in having local shops, tracks, and others to race with.
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:33 AM   #1077
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Default Stupid idea

Yes I know ROAR is a sanctioning body for Racing but this is more than just racing here. 4 cell will NOT bring more people into Racing or the Hobby, if you think otherwise you're out of your mind.

Adding a slower motor class would help the newbies more than dropping 2 cells.

TC's have become more specialized and expensive compared to pan cars, no one is running out to buy one to maybe race later but bash with their friends now.
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:35 AM   #1078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez
for the sake of my email box.... could somebody change the title of this thread?

Dawn
Are you insinuating my e-mails are Spam or something Dawn???
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:35 AM   #1079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisP
If the root problem that this proposed change was to address is a need to bring new people into the hobby...perhaps another new, constructive thread regarding ways that we ALL can help bring more people into the hobby.

It is not just the responsibility, but for all of us who are interested in having local shops, tracks, and others to race with.
There is a thread right here on that very topic.
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:44 AM   #1080
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I see that stock/novice/intermediate class is where the problem lyes.

Lets just look closer at say my local track.
The newer guys(ones just really getting into racing) are forced to race with the likes of IIC champs and A main racers of other larger events.
They spend most of the time trying to avoid these so called stock racers and never really get to race a line.
Now you can say Oh than there needs to be three classes of stock then...PRO, Sportsman and ROokie...
Well thats kind of not the point....
Stock is suppose to get the Novice into a intermediate, than a sportsman by knowing how to setup his or her car better and not having to always buy new packs and motors cause the Pro's are tossed in because of low turnout.
I think you limit stock to only non-sponsored drivers, partial or full factory.
Guys who sand bag get told bring a 19T next week or you can not race. Its that simple.
Heck I think stock should be only for Non-Sponsored drivers, for large races especially.
Could you see it.
Roar Carpet Nats.
Pro/near pro drivers can only race Mod or 19T (cause if they only had one than Sponsors would raze cain for sure)
Quit the sand bagging for sales.
Stock should be for the up and coming drivers, not the already fast and I want a second trophy class.
That rule alone would solve half this how do we get more people into the hobby. Heck it could only help the hobby. There are too many peeps who buy 1.245+ packs and buy only the top 1% of motors and buy brand new tires every run just to be competitive in stock racing. That turns off the newbie and sends them right over to Nitro, or off road. Heck I got so sick of it I went over to the dirty side for while.

But Roar really needs to do something as it is out of hand on how much people are spending just to try to keep up with the guys who are already winning A mains, cause they have sponsors who provide them with the top 1% of batts and motors...Seems a bit unfair in a Novice created class.

Sorry for the rant,
I moved to 19T as at least there is a chance someone will break, or make an error in 5 minutes.
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