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Old 11-23-2006, 01:11 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by EddieO
Bet the 115 morons who voted for Mike Queller feel wonderful right about now....

Dumb dumb dumb decision....

But I guess I gotta look at the bright side....get to sell more batteries with no worries about switching to lipo.....48 lipos don't and won't ever exsist anytime soon...


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you got the $$$ make your own sanction Im sure you will have alot of members join!
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:18 PM   #77
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Did you guys see the pictures of Hara using 4 Cell Masters to charge each cell of his packs individually?
You equalise them separately already. This is just another attempt to get the best out of them. Nothing that logic wouldn't dictate. I am surprised this hasn't been a big thing yet. i'm not an EE so I don't know if its possible to build an individual cell charger at a reasonable price. we could just go to one fuel cell and then somebody will btch about efficiency and the new banned or allowed internal components that converts it over more efficiently.


Really guys and gals. It doesn't matter what you set it at. Once everyone gets on the same page it comes down to the little things and then you have to have the 'best of the best' stuff to edge out the next guy. Then after awhile new rules. every form of powered racing is the same. some just evolve slower or faster.
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:18 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Bet the 115 morons who voted for Mike Queller feel wonderful right about now....
the problem was the way the roar election was handled... print a ballot, fill it out, mail it in. 99.999% or roar members are only members because their track requires it. yeah, i run the occasional nats but that's about the extent of my involvement.

maybe next year mail the ballots out like in the past with a postage pre-paid envelope. or do it on-line where members have to enter their member # and verify with their birth date or address or something.
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:23 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by CAi
Remember the truth....

Is this fast. Is this fun?

http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~mirage-j/gal...pB/06exp02.wmv

New batts for each heat....cheap? No

funny, i thought the track itself defined its speed. You can only go so fast around a corner, 6 4 or 28 cells. if the whole track is a corner with one straight there's not much in gearing for one straight when you need the torque in the corners. straighten out a part or two of the track and its speed no matter what amount of cells will increase.

really if you guys want all out speed, drag and/or velodrome racing come into mind.
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:24 PM   #80
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funny, i thought the track itself defined its speed. You can only go so fast around a corner, 6 4 or 28 cells. if the whole track is a corner with one straight there's not much in gearing for one straight when you need the torque in the corners. straighten out a part or two of the track and its speed no matter what amount of cells will increase.

really if you guys want all out speed, drag and/or velodrome racing come into mind.
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:25 PM   #81
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Good points Mason. At one of the major races this past summer we gave brand new packs to all our drivers who told us they were attending the race. There is one driver we help that is real low key and never told us he was going to this race. This driver made the B main in mod and beat some of our other drivers using his packs I had given him 2-3 months prior to this race. So in the end nothing beats car setup and driving. I think we sometimes get way to caught up in all the equipment and forget that having a car that keeps good corner speed and is easy to drive consistently will make more of an impact than a motor with a few more watts or a pack with a few more seconds or thousandths of a volt.
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:38 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
ROAR, EFRA and IFMAR all need to work together and make the same changes.

I think 5 cell is a great idea and will bring the speeds down to where they were 2 years ago. Racing isn't always about speed. Look at the results in Cleveland this weekend and you will see that the fast 19t guys will run faster than the average mod guys. So the extra power of a 7 turn doesn't mean your going faster unless your car or driving can handle it. So speed isn't always the solution.

In another few years if cell or motor technology keeps improving then 4 cell can be considered then. But for now the logical step would be 5 cell.
Racing is ALWAYS about speed, fastest from point A to point B, first guy to cross the line. The HOBBY on the other hand is not always about speed. I think people tend to confuse those.

The reason that some people go faster with 19t is NOW, finally, anybody has the batterys, tires, chassis, to simply go as fast as they are capable. You no longer need the fastest motor to turn the fastest laps. How great is it that people finally have more power than they can use and have to make motor decisions to turn quicker lap times. THAT'S AWESOME!!!

And when I say "anybody", maybe I should correct that to exclude the top 100 US drivers and national and world champions, and change "anybody" to "EVERYBODY" has more battery than they need. It's a great time to be the average club racer right now. You can go as fast as you can keep it between the boards. And come back with battery to spare.

The gas tank on your car (battery) is finally full and useable. Now you have to make decisions on your motor and the track. COURSE MANAGEMENT! Let the smart drivers win, not the ones with the biggest wallets.


Making a change like this is not as simple as simply losing 1 or 2 cells and putting the car back on the track. Racing is about going fast. Except NOW you have less power avaiable to go fast. Motors will be re-designed, speedo's, chargers, discharge equipment, chassis and all the goods that we use to make cars fast will be re-designed to compensate for the loss in voltage, so IRONICALLY, we can get the car to go as fast AS IT WAS!!!

Interestingly enough, we make a living on supplying parts, you'd THINK I personally would be for a change like this. We get to sell and supply more parts. I wonder why I'm against it?

I think it's that it's being rammed down all our throats is the problem.

I say this, if 5 cell is better, simply make it legal to run 5 cell, make it legal, RIGHT NOW. Just like in the old days of off-road, you could run 6 or 7 cell, knock yourself out, MOD IS MOD. If 5 or 4 cell can be made as fast or faster, guess what, the racers will find this useful and do it. But don't replace the rules with ONLY 5 cell. Let racers make the choice. It will likely have the same effect as the fast guys turning mod times with 19t motors. COURSE MANAGEMENT.

And because I saved the weight of the cell (now 5 instead of 6), I'm gonna finally run a receiver pack, and another fan, and maybe some telemetry.... Yea, it's gonna make it a lot cheaper and easier. I can run a newly designed "double speedo" with bigger and twice the fets, sure, it's twice the weight, but who cares, I saved that weight when I lost the cell (and now I have the room too), so I'm back to even. Bigger better speedo, and no weight disadvantage... Yea, not gonna cost anybody any money....

Don't thing for a second that any motor manufacturer in our industry, isn't at this very second thinking about how to build a 5 cell specific line of touring car motors.

Make no mistake, the slowest classes will pay the biggest price. You thought stock was a battery problem when the cars were reasonably fast? See what happens when you pull a few cells out of the equation.
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:50 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
You can charge 5 cells with current chargers. I use a Pitbull and charge 5 cell packs as this is what I use in offroad.
Here's the problem with that. It's not that you CAN do that and it works. It's that better and newer methods WILL be developed. Sure "it works". But so does simply motoring down and winning a mod race with a 19t...

We finally have more than enough power for 99% of the racers, and we want to make a major change to reduce the power. We finally got to a point where racers have to use less motor to go fast, and exercise some good decision making, and the guy with the biggest wallet does not have the advantage he used to.
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:07 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Here's the problem with that. It's not that you CAN do that and it works. It's that better and newer methods WILL be developed. Sure "it works". But so does simply motoring down and winning a mod race with a 19t...

We finally have more than enough power for 99% of the racers, and we want to make a major change to reduce the power. We finally got to a point where racers have to use less motor to go fast, and exercise some good decision making, and the guy with the biggest wallet does not have the advantage he used to.
This is going to be a VERY expensive change for the average racer...and the racer with the biggest wallet WILL have the advantage as they purchase new packs, 4-cell optimized chassis, 4 cell optimized motors, potentially even new era electronics you're discussing....

It will be interesting to see how the overall rule specification is written.
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:26 PM   #85
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There is nothing different about a four cell pack or a six cell pack. You seem to think there is going to be some big change with charging??? Why aren't the 12th scale guys doing something drastically different then? They have been using 4 cells for YEARS.

And why new electronics? Stuff keeps getting better with time anyway. I don't think there is some huge change they can make if we all went to 4 cell racing that they haven't allready done.
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:41 PM   #86
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maybe a good rule would be to increase the minimum weight for touring car.

Lipo's could still be integrated into the "racing" part of the hobby. Motors with more torque would be required, which would be easier on electronics and brushless would integrate well. Tires would need to be a harder compound as heavier cars increase contact patch. Most importantly manufacturers could make cars stronger and more reliable for longer races. Durable cars are what is making 1/8 off-road popular. A $500 touring car (rolling chassis only) breaks like a toothpick compared to a $400 rtr nitro car.
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:41 PM   #87
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My post was specifically in reply to points made by Bob in an earlier post...
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:44 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by PitCrew
There is nothing different about a four cell pack or a six cell pack. You seem to think there is going to be some big change with charging??? Why aren't the 12th scale guys doing something drastically different then? They have been using 4 cells for YEARS.

And why new electronics? Stuff keeps getting better with time anyway. I don't think there is some huge change they can make if we all went to 4 cell racing that they haven't allready done.
I may be mistaken here, but seems to me that 12th scale battery packs have an "easier job" pushing around a rear wheel direct drive only car that wieghs a lot less than a TC.
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:46 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
The reason why new packs are needed in 4 cell mod racing is because they were dumping hard on the track which removes runtime from that pack. If 6 cell mod racers dump the pack hard on the track the same thing will happen it has nothing to do with the pack being a 4 cell pack.

It seems that most of the problems were seeing today come from modified racing. It also seems like some racers want to go as fast as possible so maybe we should keep the mod class as it is and let the ones who feel speed is the only cool thing pay for all the wear and tear. Let the speed control manufactureres figure out ways from keeping there speedos from burning up and let the BL and regular motor builders figure out how to keep a motor to hold up for an entire run.

Then we can drop to 5 cell racing for the other classes to actually help with the wear and tear and if some feel it's to slow they can race in the mod class.

Bottom line is that it's worth to try something as with any change it takes time to adapt to it but not trying anything isn't the solution.

Again, who are the people having all this trouble with mod racing? I don't see it. At the Reedy Race open mod had no real issues until maybe a A-Main? So we have to change things for 10 people? This makes no sense. You actually DON'T have to go as fast as you can and blwo everything up. This is a stupid rule, thought of for TOURING only and is not a smart decision.

If you want to "save money" and I don't understand why people think any form of racing is cheap, start a spec class, with specific chassis and equipment. DON'T change the industry for 10 people.

A rule that will slow down cars is limiting tires for the race. Say in rubber, no more inserts, foam you have to run a certain size tire with a rim size limit.

This is a rule change because people are too scared to make a rule that actually does something.

In 2 years if we go to lower cell count, the electronics will be made to that level, Novak isn't going to keep over engineering their products for long.

Touring has become a high end racing class, like 1/8 on road. My suggestion it to run off-road and remember that all this crap doesn't matter. If you want to run 1-cell in off-road it's your choice, not a rule.

If you're faster in 19T than in mod, then run 19T in mod, that's the motor you should run, not a 7-turn. If the track is small there is no advantage to run a mod motor. THe idea is to find the motor that makes you the fastest.


The real solution was changing the electronics to actually be built for higher volts, where you'd have less amp draw and less heat...equaling more runtime. Brushless Helis run 42 volts for less heat and more run time. In the automotive world they went from 6-volt to 12-volt and now want to go to 42 volts because of the reduced draw.

There are 11 classes for "slow" already. If 19T is the most popular and the "new mod" let it be, and not try and slow down everything else.
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:52 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by HarshGuy
I may be mistaken here, but seems to me that 12th scale battery packs have an "easier job" pushing around a rear wheel direct drive only car that wieghs a lot less than a TC.
True,
So I guess that means that all the chargers that 12th scale guys have used won't work for a TC? I guess the speedos that are used for 12th 4 cell and 6 cell touring also won't work.

This is a mess, whos idea was this anyway. Geez.
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