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Old 11-29-2006, 01:28 PM   #766
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There is no FEAR of change, it's fear of making a decision based off the wrong intentions. That isn't the same. Racers have responded will to change, but this one is just rediculous. The repercussion of this change in the industry isn't what is needed.

What would an exhibition class show? That 4-cell works, that 5-cell works? It isn't a question of if it works, it does. It's an issue of making a pretty significant change in standards that is NOT necessary. We don't need to see it go, they go. 1/12-scale guys will say their car works well in 4-cell and it does, they are also smaller and 1/3 the weight.

There is no rational behind this talk. The reasons are invalid, and actually proved wrong. Are there a few people who want to go slower, for whatever reason? Obviously, but address the real issues of racing and all this CRAP will sort itself out.


Real issues affecting racing, and specifically touring.

1. Cars are not used anywhere but on smooth surface and the track-not fun.
2. In general, no ranking system to let people reach goals and move up in skill.
3. Too many classes and confusing structure.
4. Tire wear is the real issue.
5. Why is NITRO so popular and growing (offroad) despite more speed and more non-beginner friendly parts?


The general lack of organization withing the organization is crazy. As you can see from the amount of talk on this tread alone, it's not something that people want. As stated 100 times, racers will race anything, anywhere. So looking "into the future" as Adrian said, this is a bad change. And not to pick on Adrian, but they sell no ELECTRIC RTRs to have a negative effect on sales.

So eliminating the "racer" from this equation and looking long term, this is a horrible decision for the industry. It splits, again, the limited amount of people and further seperates bashers from EVER hitting the track.
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:31 PM   #767
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
The thing is we are dumping in 6 cell right now! There is no diffrence. At the Reedy Race we had 1000mak left in our packs. By the Nats in Sacremento we had figured out how to use up ALL of the battery in 5 min.

No matter how many Mah you give a mod driver they will figure out how to use all of it.

You would probably run 19T 4 cell. With a 19T you could run 8 min on 4 cells if you wanted to.
Adrian, I've never dumped in Stock foam TC with 6 cells. I think you're referring to people who run mod 6 cell TC, which is a minority of the people. I'm just saying that for ME, to go from stock foam TC 6 cell to Mod foam TC 4 cell (to keep the relative same speeds), I fear that I may start dumping and damaging packs, when I've NEVER dumped before. Maybe this isn't a concern with 19T foam TC 4 cell....I don't know. Have you guys done any testing with TCs on foam tires? just curious because you said that ROAR has been investigating this for years, I don't mean to instigate anything.
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:34 PM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Euge
I should correct what I wrote. I didn't mean that 4 cell mod sucks. I meant that if the consequence of doing so creates a battery war where my 4 cell packs don't last as long as my 6 cell packs because I keep dumping....that will suck.
you wont dump, I run the GTB with the 3.5 with 4 cells, I also have a very small reveiver pack (2/3aaa) for the servo ( cost me less than $8.00)and with 3800's and have no problems running 6 minutes .
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:36 PM   #769
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It is being talked about. Thats all at this momment.
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:39 PM   #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
It is being talked about. Thats all at this momment.
OK ..so clearly with only 5 weeks left in 2006, this is not for a 2007 implementation, correct?
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:40 PM   #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Once again fear of change driving you to stay with what you know.

Thats bull. Its more like fear of a stupid rule killing sedan racing. Open up motor rules to handle the power better. Build better ESC's that handle the power. Build a stronger car. Don't slow the racers down, make the companies keep up with us.
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:57 PM   #772
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just a question, didnt most of this debate. start when the "pro mod" drivers were thermal shutting down there esc, because of gearing, high outdoor temps etc.

my fear is that with 4 cell mod people looking for the highest performance out of there cars are going to gear up higher to make up for the lack of voltage and they will still over heat motors, esc etc and we are right back to where we starting from and changed the entire TC scene for no real reason

kinda goes back to that to finish first . . .you must first finish . . .

i say drop a tooth or two on the pinion and lets move on, or make the esc companys push to make esc that can handle the heat??? lets give the ecs co. time to make equipment that can handle the newest cells and motors

or we can create another class to thin out the club racing scene ever more OUTLAW 6 cell

as far as getting more newbies involved i think that is up to each track, making the area aware that there is a track, racing in high visiblilty locations once in a while, the track regulars being nice to the new guys instead of yelling at them in practice or quals, allow some sort of runwhatcabrung class and let all thise guys race together until they can run in a stock class and not get lapped 5-9 times in 5 mins. fairly clean

just my 2 cents
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:09 PM   #773
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Have we noticed the constant between the 2 most popular classes, stock and 19??? Locked Endbell!!!

Maybe we need a "spec modified" motor.... Just like 27 and 19 turns...

9 turn Locked comm at between 10-20 deg max...

Longer races....

4 minute qualifiers and 8 to 10 minute mains...

You can gear all out for qualifying and then regear to make runtime....

I wish we'd run longer 12th mains... I suck for the first minute till I get in my groove... Plus I pull my packs (4200 WC) off, throw them on my GFX at 30 amps and still pull another 2200mah out... Matter of fact I've used the same pack for practice and a qualifiers or not bothered to change out between qualifiers.... This is with a 27 turn, I still haven't gotten a lot of testing in since I switched my 12th to the 13.5....
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:16 PM   #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAlford
Thats bull. Its more like fear of a stupid rule killing sedan racing. Open up motor rules to handle the power better. Build better ESC's that handle the power. Build a stronger car. Don't slow the racers down, make the companies keep up with us.
Are you sure you know what you are asking for? More expensive motors...more expensive and bigger speedcontrols. I have heard some figures thrown around as to what this stuff might cost. Is a $300 speedo too expensive? How about a $350 BL speedo? I guess thats all ok as long as you get to keep 6 cells and go fast...right?
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:22 PM   #775
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vtl1180ny - We are only running 7-12 deg of timing in our mods now....how low would you lock the timing at...lol!
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:34 PM   #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
vtl1180ny - We are only running 7-12 deg of timing in our mods now....how low would you lock the timing at...lol!
So lock it at 8deg... Who cares???? then you can't use the arguement when there was a motor limit and people were cranking up the timing. Both 19 and 27 have locked endbells, the can's exist to do it and a endbell has to be made...

Novice class can be silver can motors...

Adrian, I have 10 4 cell packs I carry with me to the track and I probably only use 3 of them. But this is for 12th scale and I know I can't use the packs for anything else. I have another 15 or so 6 cell packs that go into my 10th scales, MT's and various other vehciles.... I want to keep it that way....
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:39 PM   #777
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Seriously...ROAR, do what you will. Your decision will either change the class or make ROAR irrelevant as a sanctioning body.
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:40 PM   #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
We have seen how 4-cell worked in Japan (poorly). And have yet to see how 5-cell works in Europe. So why make a decision so soon? Why not wait and see the 5-cell results and make a decision based on what actually happens in real world races.
Very logical idea. All the testing and theory in the world only goes so far. You need to get things in a race environment to find the pluses and minuses.

What we have, if we wait, is a massive group of racers doing our R&D for us.
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:44 PM   #779
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As soon as people figure out that you can use a laptop to program your brushless esc for more power the price is gonna skyrocket anyways. So whats it matter.
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:51 PM   #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAlford
As soon as people figure out that you can use a laptop to program your brushless esc for more power the price is gonna skyrocket anyways. So whats it matter.
You can't get any more power than the batteries can provide... Geeze... Where do some of you come up with this?

If a Motor can spin 50k RPM at 7.2 volts no matter what you do to the esc you aren't going to get any more out of it...

I do agree, this will make ROAR even more irrelivent than they are now.... I'm so happy my track doesn't require membership...
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