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Old 11-28-2006, 12:07 PM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos.J
I wouldnt be bragging so much about a 350Z
It's an example, although my Z sweet. Don't be a hater.
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:09 PM   #617
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The way things are now with 6 cell in carpet racing is fine. Mod is really hard and only the best of the best can wheel it. Its the way it should be.

Stock is super competitive and there is a main for everyone at a big race, so if winning a bowling trophy or plaque is really important to you, you get one.

19t is a good meeting point for stock stars and mod drivers. What great proving ground for up and coming talent.

Where's the problem?

At the champs there were no issues with cars shutting off, or motors blowing up. The few issues I've seen in mod during the last year have been with prototype brushless motors. I see no compelling reason to change things.

If the argument is getting people into on-road racing, the savings of 2 cells per pack isn't worth much. At the end of the day it will save maybe 20 bucks on your complete starting setup. It also will make the cars less appealing speed wise without producing any significant savings in terms of tires or motors. IE we still burn through motors in 12th scale and I don't really see tire wear changing enough to justify this.

This whole 4 cell tc thing seems to be a mod rubber tire phenomenon. Cars shut off at the worlds, motors came un-soldered, well if its a billion degree's outside don't run a 6 turn and expect to have no issues. Issues like that are results of poor decision making, not a flaw in the formula.

Switching now would involve really rethinking the chassis designs and cause innumerable problems during the transition period that will only drive out existing racers and confuse people trying to come into the hobby.

I see literally 0 upside to this. Its not damned if you do damned if you don't like everyone says. Its freaking moronic if you do and fine the way it is.

Alot of the posts supporting the argument for 4 cell seems to be based in the same stupid bs about sponsored drivers in stock. It looks to me like the same people are championing the whole, racing is too hard and I don't want to race with talented hard working people to get my worthless plaque.
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:14 PM   #618
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Derek,

I am not saying a high voltage solution is wrong, just the amps and volts that our current standard has,in concert with the fine line the manufacturers take is an issue, and I am not saying it that big of one ( IMHO )

I think we have a couple of problems that the solutions are being rolled up in this discussion ( and they have valid points for being talked about together)


And Rick brings up a good point, with out ROAR, like it or lump it where would we be for organized racing in this country.

I got involved with ROAR on the comittee because I wanted to be part of the solution, and not just bitch about it. I dont like all the decisions that are made, but all the people on my team try to come up with solutions that will help the racers, and the racing. Sometimes the best decisions are difficult to make. Keep this in mind though. The comittee's do not make rules, they suggest them.
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:21 PM   #619
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So ............ ( after 15 pages ) is it 4 or 6 now ?
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:26 PM   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPotter
Derek,

I am not saying a high voltage solution is wrong, just the amps and volts that our current standard has,in concert with the fine line the manufacturers take is an issue, and I am not saying it that big of one ( IMHO )

I think we have a couple of problems that the solutions are being rolled up in this discussion ( and they have valid points for being talked about together)


And Rick brings up a good point, with out ROAR, like it or lump it where would we be for organized racing in this country.

I got involved with ROAR on the comittee because I wanted to be part of the solution, and not just bitch about it. I dont like all the decisions that are made, but all the people on my team try to come up with solutions that will help the racers, and the racing. Sometimes the best decisions are difficult to make. Keep this in mind though. The comittee's do not make rules, they suggest them.

Tim, I and many others appreciate the time you take. But I don't always think that the larger picture is looked at when rules are being talked about, and posts like this should bring things out into the open. It's like a meeting at the town hall where citizens voice their opinion, and give examples using a 350Z (which I am proud of).

Racers tend to have the most extreme case of tunnel vision and only care about what's good for them. Why do I want everybody to go slower? Because I can't go faster. Shouldn't be the reason for a rule, nor should I'm a manufacturer and my stuff doesn't work. Silly rational. Racers care for only what is good for them. None of these guys probably takes the time to talk to the "newbies" they suddenly care so much for and maybe help them. Would it be hard to go up to somebody and make them go slower individually, which would help them out.

I don't like the thought of this because it's a finger in the dam. Instead of looking at what the reason is a class is slowing down, they look at why they aren't in the A. There are examples in other class, like Nitro, that are the complete opposite of what is going on in electric. They are in the scope, but the two are so far appart. Why is that? It's not speed, it's not manything. I don't like the internal contridiction of those things within the same organization.

Like Spec tires being good for only on-road, or just being picked because they are a sponsor. We seem to mask the real reasons with "excuses" that it's for the racer. It's not, and don't assume that most people won't see through the BS of that.

Tires are the single most expensive item in on-road, yet there is zero rules to limit price or how they wear. Why is that?

All the racers will race, but the larger picture must be looked at in situations like this.
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:32 PM   #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekB
Tim, I and many others appreciate the time you take. But I don't always think that the larger picture is looked at when rules are being talked about, and posts like this should bring things out into the open. It's like a meeting at the town hall where citizens voice their opinion, and give examples using a 350Z (which I am proud of).

Racers tend to have the most extreme case of tunnel vision and only care about what's good for them. Why do I want everybody to go slower? Because I can't go faster. Shouldn't be the reason for a rule, nor should I'm a manufacturer and my stuff doesn't work. Silly rational. Racers care for only what is good for them. None of these guys probably takes the time to talk to the "newbies" they suddenly care so much for and maybe help them. Would it be hard to go up to somebody and make them go slower individually, which would help them out.

I don't like the thought of this because it's a finger in the dam. Instead of looking at what the reason is a class is slowing down, they look at why they aren't in the A. There are examples in other class, like Nitro, that are the complete opposite of what is going on in electric. They are in the scope, but the two are so far appart. Why is that? It's not speed, it's not manything. I don't like the internal contridiction of those things within the same organization.

Like Spec tires being good for only on-road, or just being picked because they are a sponsor. We seem to mask the real reasons with "excuses" that it's for the racer. It's not, and don't assume that most people won't see through the BS of that.

Tires are the single most expensive item in on-road, yet there is zero rules to limit price or how they wear. Why is that?

All the racers will race, but the larger picture must be looked at in situations like this.
well i guess the 350Z would be like touring car with 4 cells, and my M6 would be a touring car with 6 cells
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:35 PM   #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos.J
well i guess the 350Z would be like touring car with 4 cells, and my M6 would be a touring car with 6 cells

Me thinks me Twin Turbo addition would have a little something something for the M6

But that's a nice ride for sure. I wouldn't be too proud of that because other people have faster cars too


Z= 19T
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:53 PM   #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekB
Me thinks me Twin Turbo addition would have a little something something for the M6

But that's a nice ride for sure. I wouldn't be too proud of that because other people have faster cars too


Z= 19T
lol
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:55 PM   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekB


Tires are the single most expensive item in on-road, yet there is zero rules to limit price or how they wear. Why is that?

.
HECK OF A GOOD QUESTION... why not instead of slowing cars down lets just reduce the amount of available grip by going to a long wearing spec tire in both foam and rubber this would GREATLY reduce the cost of racing and we would go the same speed down the straight away. This would change the face of stock racing allowing anyone to compete and we could let open mod really be open mod letting the big boys burn through tires, motors, batteries as quick as they want. This would allow us weekly club racers to sit back and enjoy stock or 19t racing without having to spend more on tires then we have in our entire car. Tires are what keeps me from racing on weekly basis as I can't afford a complete set of tires every couple runs to keep up with the factory stock racers.

I don't like paying 15-20 dollars a pair for foam tires when half the people I race with have a tire sponser that just means I'm paying all that money for them to get free tires!
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Old 11-28-2006, 01:04 PM   #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekB
Me thinks me Twin Turbo addition would have a little something something for the M6

But that's a nice ride for sure. I wouldn't be too proud of that because other people have faster cars too


Z= 19T
Takes adding twin turbo's to catch with an 18 year old car.
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Old 11-28-2006, 01:07 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones
Takes adding twin turbo's to catch with an 18 year old car.

Oh I thought you had a new one, not the old one. A stock Z will serve up a beating to an old M6, lol. As mine sits on low boost, I hit about 340whp (almost 400hp).
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Old 11-28-2006, 01:12 PM   #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekB
What we need is a new "beginner" class.

Like mentioned before one of the main problems is a ranking system and not the speed. We don't need to play with current range of speed, we need a system to allow racers to advance.

We dance around the real problems all freaking day. NItro off-road is full of new people, and the hottest segment (has been for years) ALL the cars are too fast for 90% of the people...but it keeps growing, no limits on anything, no spec tires.

Think about WHY that segment is strong, and retaining people and why others aren't. Messing with some standard just adds another hole to the bottom of sinking ship.
This is the truest statement to date...Those who are in the industry know this is FACT!
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Old 11-28-2006, 01:13 PM   #628
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off topic sorry, but if you want to have a pissing match over real cars here is a pic of the motor.....






Unfortunatly 6 years later I still havn't found a car worthy 900 streetable HP on 6lbs of boost

Edit: whoops thats the wrong pic, thats a pic of an 1100hp 572 that has a matching twin in the boat, although thats the blower for my 509, that motor now has custom blowershop units.
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Old 11-28-2006, 01:15 PM   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racenut123
This is the truest statement to date...Those who are in the industry know this is FACT!
Hey! Get that Gen-X out of your sig. You gave it to Tito, remember! LMAO!
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Old 11-28-2006, 01:16 PM   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekB
Oh I thought you had a new one, not the old one. A stock Z will serve up a beating to an old M6, lol. As mine sits on low boost, I hit about 340whp (almost 400hp).
Old M6 ?? its a 2007 BMW M6!! with a V10 rated at 500hp ,as far as I know they didnt make a M6 18 years ago
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