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Old 11-24-2006, 11:17 PM   #331
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Even with four cells, impacts still damage the car, and it doesn't mean easier to drive coz all racing cars require proper setup.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:26 PM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billjacobs
T

By the way, a watt of power is 1amp times 1 volt. If you increase the voltage, you decrease the amperage. Power is R (resistance) x I*I (current squared.) If you decrease the amps by 20%, you decrease the power handling requirements by about 40%. (Same reason power lines are high voltage, 10,000v at 120amps, not 120V at 10,000 amps.) This means speed controllers don't need to handle as many amps.

It has been mentioned that the voltage in the electrical systems in real cars is going up, not down. The motor battery in the toyota prius is 201.6 volts.
We don't want to understand that more voltage, and systems DESIGNED for more voltage is the right way to go. YES pushing more power into our antiquated motors is the wrong direction, build a motor that runs off more volts and we get MORE RUNTIME, less heat.

The reason why we transmit electricity in 10,000 volts, and not 12 with 100,000 amps.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:30 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
Many racers had to resort to getting parts online and sort of becoming their own hobbyshops. many online shops are having difficulties also.
You need to find a better spot to get parts then. ...lol...

Many is a pretty big word. I hope you're not including us in the blanket statement.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:30 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Advil
Went to the track today to unplug from all of this B.S. and just turn some laps. While I was there I talked to some of the racers that showed up to do the same thing.....

No one wanted to go 4 cell. Not one. The Stock guys just laughed at me and the few 19T guys that were there made rude comments about ROAR.

I am SURE that Adrian is pushing this agenda with ROAR using his position as Promotions Director on the EXCOM to get gain their ear. I think he is miss guided in thinking that this is a cure for what ails TC racing but he will still push this to the limit at ROAR. I am willing to bet money that he has already talked to Scotty Ernst, Fred Medel, Mike Boylan, and even probably Mr Bill to secure their support if ROAR goes to 4 cell. Please let these guys know that this is not what WE want and that they should consider this BEFORE making their decision on following ROAR or not.

Who wants to race 4 cell 19T? NOBODY!
Who wants to race 4 cell stock? NOBODY!

Who wants to race 4 cell mod???? Adrian and his cronies......

Adrian is getting the short end of the stick, he actually cares about things, which is good.

But, like I said 101 times, go to the track and ask people....I don't hear people saying anything like....I wish I went slower, I wish I had 4 cells.


Here's an idea for Adrian and all that want to race lower cell count. At the Nationals, run 4-cell and let the results speak for themselves...something tells me that they won't be running 4-cells in the A. The only reason they ran 5-cell at the off-road worlds was that traction was so low, but not everybody ran it...some went to, get this, slower motors and quad/quint winding to get a better powerband.

Too much power is the ONLY equalizer.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:42 PM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
You need to find a better spot to get parts then. ...lol...

Many is a pretty big word. I hope you're not including us in the blanket statement.
nope, i have ordered from stormer off & on over the years since 1989, no problems. when i was in the military stormer and tower were the only 2 that would ship to me overseas.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:53 PM   #336
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I don't like to compare TC w/ OVAL Car, I know the weight difference, etc. blah blah blah...

However, since in OVAL the Key Idea is SPEED...pretty much Flat Out and LOTS and LOTS of laps...

This was the resulted difference in the EXPERT MODIFIED CLASS at Last Years SNOWBIRD NATIONALS between 4 cell MOD and 6 cell MOD.

YOU DO THE MATH
Main Finish
1st) 4 Cell Pro Mod - Greg Honeycutt Silva X-Factor4 67 4:03.76 ( Ave. Lap Time 3.638)
2nd) 4 Cell Pro Mod - Monti Panzica Silva X-Factor4 66 4:00.97 ( Ave. Lap Time 3.651)


1st) 6 Cell Mod - Monti Panzica Silva X-Factor4 68 4:02.62 ( Ave. Lap Time 3.568)
2nd) 6 Cell Mod - Brian Ziegler Associated 66 4:01.27

Top Qualifiers
4 Cell Pro Mod QUALIFYING

Greg Honeycutt Associated 67 4:01.67 (Ave. Lap Time 3.607)
Frank Ulbrik Hyperdrive 67 4:02.37
Brian Ziegler Associated 67 4:02.54

6 Cell Pro Mod QUALIFYING

Sean Cochran Associated 70 4:03.15 (Ave. Lap Time 3.473)
Brian Ziegler Associated 69 4:00.58
Monti Panzica CRC 69 4:00.68

So w/ TC How much difference will/would we see?
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Old 11-25-2006, 12:15 AM   #337
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You are right... there is NO comparison between oval pan cars and touring cars.. or oval and road course so lets talk TC road course here
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Old 11-25-2006, 12:15 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
nope, i have ordered from stormer off & on over the years since 1989, no problems. when i was in the military stormer and tower were the only 2 that would ship to me overseas.
*whew*... Glad we could help.
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Old 11-25-2006, 12:40 AM   #339
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ottoman said:

Quote:
there is NO comparison between oval pan cars and touring cars.. or oval and road course so lets talk TC road course here
RUN ONE...so we CAN~ Until a few people DO IT...I don't know why ANYONE is talking about it.

SOLID DATA is Always better than blind speculation.
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Old 11-25-2006, 12:49 AM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
I feel the majority are on your side, stock is supposed to be the slowest of the classes. The problem is that it will be TO SLOW. 33% less power and only an 8% weight savings, with the same amount of drag and cornering forces to be overcome as before. Additionally, slower servos, and the very real possibility of radio drop outs with the receiver running on the bare minimum for voltge causing interference.
I'm not necessarily sold on the 4-cell idea as the solution, it may be 5-cells or some other change. I've just gotten tired of hearing so many people saying that we don't have a problem and changes aren't necessary.

4-cells works fine in 12th scale. We don't have significant interference issues, especially in stock. Sure, we are lighter, but we are using the same exact speed controls and motors that TC uses. If interference becomes a problem, a short term solution is to use a receiver pack. The long term solution is that radio manufacturers will make adjustments to their equipment to reduce power needs.

When I started racing back in 1990, it was in off-road. I think I raced just a few weeks before I was able to run modified. Within a few months of racing, anybody could have been ready for modified. In TC on-road today, any new driver who is capable of running modified after just a few weeks, or even a few months, of racing is truly gifted. Many drivers now will never be ready for modified.

Stock should be too slow for hardcore racers. In my opinion, it should be WAY too slow for hardcore racers. Stock need to be the class that the hobbyists and occasional racers run in.

We've gone way too long without any restrictive changes. The manufacturers have been improving our equipment at a phenomenal rate. Speed, power and capacity have increased at an amazing rate with nothing to hold it back.

Since I started racing, batteries have gone from 1200mah to 4300mah. Due to the increased capacity, motor manufacturers have designed motors that will pull more amps. More amps means more power. We could change the design specs for the motors, but that doesn't seem like a realistic solution. It's much easier to just reduce the available voltage.

4-cell can work. 5-cell can work. It will NEVER happen unless the rules are changed by a sanctioning body. It won't be a painless change either. Oval went through this, and they had a rough time for a while, but they came through. I'm not trying to draw any comparisons to how the change will affect TC differently than an oval car, just the people part of the equation and resistance to change.



Sorry if this is a bit rambling... it's almost 3:00am here... Time for bed.
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Old 11-25-2006, 01:02 AM   #341
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We have a race this weekend and some of us are going to give the 4 cell TC a shot and see what the difference may be. I do not think it will be a huge one. Our track is somewhat tight and the straight we have is about 60 ft long.

Kevin
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Old 11-25-2006, 01:21 AM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinL
We have a race this weekend and some of us are going to give the 4 cell TC a shot and see what the difference may be. I do not think it will be a huge one. Our track is somewhat tight and the straight we have is about 60 ft long.

Kevin
Try the 4-cell first. Then do the 6-cell.
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:30 AM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
YUP
TAMIYA..............
http://rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=91489

I can see it now....First battery wars...then Chassis wars....

-Shookie <><
That is more based on a pan car design, the rear has a solid axle, which is not what current touring cars have.
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:24 AM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour
ottoman said:



RUN ONE...so we CAN~ Until a few people DO IT...I don't know why ANYONE is talking about it.

SOLID DATA is Always better than blind speculation.
And yet, this 'blind speculation' as you put it, is what the ExComm is basing their vote on....and we are talking about it for JUST THAT REASON.

I don't think that any of us would be screaming as loudly if this was run first as an exhibition class and demonstrated to be fast enough, easier on equipment, and provide better racing......

Forcing it down everyones throats though will generate a backlash!!
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:40 AM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinL
We have a race this weekend and some of us are going to give the 4 cell TC a shot and see what the difference may be. I do not think it will be a huge one. Our track is somewhat tight and the straight we have is about 60 ft long.

Kevin
You're going to tun it in stock/19T? ....I would like to see the outcome as well, run 4 cell in with the 6 cell guys in stock and 19T to see how the 2 compare together.
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