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Old 11-24-2006, 04:16 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Not to mention the fact that the main argument for EFRA has been speedos and motors that are "blowing up". I don't see an epidemic of threads like that on any forums in North America.

Why change the cells if it's believed the motors and speedos need be fixed and updated? Why take the only piece of the equation that actually WORKS EVERY TIME, and limit it, rather than fix the problem?
EXACTLY Bob!!!! I was going to mention in my post about evolving how batteries have finally gotten to a point where we are all on a level playing field but that motors and speedos haven't really evolved.
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:18 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
He consistently tells us that this is from the "industry insiders" and that they know better that we do....
Oh man, and I'm guessing Hitler, the U.S.S.R and Bill Clinton knew what was better for the citizens than the citizens as well...LOL
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:41 PM   #288
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It seems pretty easy to give ROAR and the tracks/events that support them the middle finger, and use your feet to let them know how you feel. It's pretty clear they've got the "good ol' boy" mentality, making decisions about the hobby that are supposedly right for the racers, with ulterior motives all the while.

With turnouts at an all-time low, it doesn't take many people to make an impact by not showing up. If tracks and events want your business, they'll listen to the racers, and not the old men that have let the hobby pass them by.
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:48 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by BlackKat
Oh man, and I'm guessing Hitler, the U.S.S.R and Bill Clinton knew what was better for the citizens than the citizens as well...LOL
Not to mention Dr.Phil....
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:48 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
Itīs clear enough
But I disagree. Not that I know whatīs the answer actually is. Not at all. But I realy canīt see it so black & white, so I get upset about it. I see it as something new. Worth to try. If it works; Great. If it not; Change.
Itīs like a marrige. It suppose to be for life. But if it sucks, well, divorse and go on. New adventures ahead!
Anders, I think you'll find that most of us with an interest in this topic don't mind the thought of racing a different class, or trying something that will make us faster and last longer, or give us an edge on the track or give us something fun to do.

I feel the argument is that the problems that lead to the EFRA decisions are largely not what is noticed in North America. There's nothing wrong with the decision if Europe is happy with it.

I suspect what IS upsetting is that a major change is being suggested, based on a situation that doesn't appear to exist in North America, and being rammed down the throats of racers that didn't ask for it, or want it. For better or worse the US is a very democratic society, and we get a little chapped when somebody changes things for us, without asking or explaining.

It has been suggested that ROAR officials believe, "We feel it will be better for the health of the sport"... Okay, I'm perfectly willing to listen, show me some facts? Show me some data? Show me the problems? Why exactly are we trying to fix something that isn't broken?

And a simple blanket statement like "to fall in line with other IFMAR blocks" is not good enough. I, and very likely 99.99% of the North American people on this forum are not soon to be attending a FAMAR, EFRA, or FEMCA event in a country outside North America. So to make a change that only effects a few FACTORY DRIVERS that are racing overseas, doesn't seem like a good idea to me, if that's the only reason for a change, to " keep up with the jones's "

If the few people on the ROAR excomm want to completely change the face of racing in North America, I think it's more than fair to ask a few questions. Look how brushless was stuffed down our throats, and the consumers have been paying for the R&D on that for what now, 4 years?

And frankly, I'd like to know what qualifes some of the Excomm people to make those kinds of decisions? Where do they get their information on what the members of ROAR want?
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:58 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Where do they get their information on what the members of ROAR want?
Does the members of Roar gets there voice heard at the right place & at the right time? Thatīs not always the case in Europe, where some complain on the internet, and not at the meeting where the topic is discussed and up for vote.
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Old 11-24-2006, 05:28 PM   #292
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This would be a good time to inform our Regional Directors of our displeasure or pleasure of the upcoming battery rule change. After all they are our voice to the ROAR leadership.
I see that region 11 RD, Eddie0 is alredy taking part in this discussion and has presented his viewpoint.

Time to contact all the RD's and tell them to inform ROAR of what the racers want.
Dont let this slide like the election, more than 200 people need to get behind the RD's to make them heard.
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Old 11-24-2006, 05:32 PM   #293
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Ok, so how do we get our point across to ROAR? Do we need to take polls, contact our local congressman, what does it take? I agree to let this be a provisional class in mod only to see what's really going on. I'm totally against 19T and stock going 4 cell at this point, I really see no need at all. I can kinda see the point in mod, but still need more data like bob has said to be convinced. I feel if this gets passed without members votes ther will be a flood of cars on ebay, and a few buried in backyards cause this will be a death nail for TC in North America, sure some will try to convert, but with the old timers like me grumbling on threads like this will surely turn new people away. Heck, I dont even want to be reading this type of thing right now, just imagine someone new just stumbling across this thinking we cant even agree on cell count, why should I want to join in?
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Old 11-24-2006, 05:38 PM   #294
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You guys !!!


Finally the sedan racer can race mod with out all the problems ...

Its a good thing 4 cell ...

all you turtle`s that have to race 27t with a 4 cell ?

Have fun ....

Cus your not gona race stock finally...

Most of you will begin to learn new skills and become betta driver`s !!!
By
learning how to race mod for the first times in your lives !!!

Its really fun(Mod) ....

So pull it out of azz`s,
leave stock to the beginner`s

Like it should be.....
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Old 11-24-2006, 06:08 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C_O_jones
This would be a good time to inform our Regional Directors of our displeasure or pleasure of the upcoming battery rule change. After all they are our voice to the ROAR leadership.
I see that region 11 RD, Eddie0 is alredy taking part in this discussion and has presented his viewpoint.

Time to contact all the RD's and tell them to inform ROAR of what the racers want.
Dont let this slide like the election, more than 200 people need to get behind the RD's to make them heard.
Fred
Which RD, the current one or the one voted in as of January 2007?
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Old 11-24-2006, 06:14 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by HarshGuy
Which RD, the current one or the one voted in as of January 2007?
Depends, do you want something done now? Or January 2007?
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Old 11-24-2006, 06:31 PM   #297
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How many here wanted the race length increased? The cons people kept saying was it would cause battery wars because you cannot run 8 minutes with a 7 turn and make run time. Their reply was to run less motor along with changing your gearing and you will make run time. THIS SLOWS THE CARS DOWN and will also increase the wear on the equipment(all the equipment, batteries included).

Now that Roar is talking about going to 4 cells, are these same people against this rule? The same cons are being used by saying it will be come a battery war because you will not be able to run a 6 turn and make 5 minutes. My reply is RUN LESS MOTOR, and you get benefits instead of added problems, your tires will last longer, the electronics will not be on the edge of meltdown, and the equipment wear will be reduced. All this while probably going about the same speed as if the race length would have been increased.

I feel people will always want to complain and start things when it is not what they want. I could care less if the cars are slower because everyone on the track will still be going the same speed as each other and the same people will still be winning. NO one is saying if you race touring with 4 cells you MUST run a 5 turn motor, heck, even with 6 cells you can say you do not have to run a 7 turn but you still get the same wear out of a 12 turn on some tracks as you would with a 7 turn, and not just motor wear(tires batteries, and chassis parts as well).

Keep in mind this is just my opinion from things I have observed from different threads.
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Old 11-24-2006, 06:37 PM   #298
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This is just my $0.02 but when they made the decision to go to 4-cell for carpet oval most people looked at it the same way this is being looked at now. Lots of people hated the Idea. But now that the change has had a few years to clean it self up the racing is better and its cheaper for the driver/racer. I think that it is a great idea. I have just started racing TC within the last few months but I have seen the cars speed increase by a lap+ on total time at my loca track just with the release of the new IB4200 WC cells. Stock cars are getting out of hand for the average racer now with 6-cells. I think that droping them back to 4-cell will help with the development of the driver in turn making for better closer racing on a weekly basis and thus making it closer racing for all the big events that some of us travel to. Maybe im looking at it in the wrong way but I see nothing but positives comming from this. And like someone said earlier. If you want speed and can handle it there is full blow MOD. Strap a 6 single in a touring car with 4-cells. The speed will be there to seperate the men from the boys. I know it does with a pro-mod oval car...
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Old 11-24-2006, 06:58 PM   #299
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T. Thomas, apparently you don't know what a battery war means. It means that companys will have up to $100 batteries due to the increased demand for that extra 10 seconds of runtime (which works out to 20 secs of an 8 minute run). These people will not have to gear or motor down since they paid for the extra runtime. This then forces everyone else to buy these packs to keep pace.

I've seen this before and it wasnt pretty. This is what killed dirt oval in the early '90s.
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:00 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
ROAR, EFRA and IFMAR all need to work together and make the same changes.

I think 5 cell is a great idea and will bring the speeds down to where they were 2 years ago. Racing isn't always about speed.
So why not run with one cell? Then everyone can run wfo all the way around the track, ie, no skill involved. And your pack (or cell) will be destroyed because everyone will try to gear to the moon to get the speed back. I remember starting out when mod class was just that, (modified to the max including seven cells!!!!!). Racing not about speed??????????????? Don't know about that. Why would Ferrari spend umpteen billion dollars to go faster if racing isn't about speed? To advance technology. 4 or 5 cell is a step backwards. If you want to go slow, go race turtles................
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