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Old 11-24-2006, 08:01 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by Backfire
Any benefit you see from the reduced voltage and weight, will be countered by pushing your new setup harder. If the motors do run cooler due to the voltage drop, racers will then gear up until they again reach the edge
This is what racing is. You push yourself, and your machinery to the edge. Without pushing it to the edge it's not racing.
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:02 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
Also, you think its going to take "a few years" to get the speed you you are WAY under informed. A huge jump in speed will happen as of January 1, 2007 when we can run sintered mags in BL motors.
BL are only legal in mod though ...are you saying stock and 19T are also going to be allowed to run BL in 07?

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The Novak 13.5 whigh is supposed to be a "Stock Level" motor is just as fast as a 19T with a sintered mag in it. Eventually 13.5 will be "The" stock class.
It is? I know that a 4300 with a sintered arm is as fast "overall" as a brushed 19T ...I've seen it first hand as recently as this last Wednesday at a club race in Stockton, I do have everything I need to run a 13.5 with a sintered arm, just need to put it all in my car ....but I have a hard time believing that the 13.5 is going to be as fast as a brushed 19T.

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Originally Posted by AdrianM
The people pushing 4 and 5 cell are the industry leaders. They know more than you and have been doing this longer than you. They depend on your hobby for their lively hood. As Such they have done the research and have determined that 4 or 5 cell is the best course for the future of R/C racing.
I would like to hear from these industry leaders and what their testing has shown.

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Originally Posted by Backfire
The reason I ask is that after reading this thread and others, I am completely confused as to what effect, positive or negative, is expected to happen. It seems to me that the arguments for both sides are going in circles. I cannot tell if these proposed changes are intended only to address the physical limits of our equipment that we are now reaching, or if it is to address the broader issue of declining attendence at the races? I would assume that any change would be made to strengthen the TC classes as a whole, but like BadBoyRC asked a few posts earlier, I have not been able to find specific answers to how. You see arguments to slow the cars down, yet the next post will state they are just as fast. I read that it will reduce the cost of racing, but also that it will make high end equipment more important. And on and on....
Here in lies part of my confusion/issue with this as well, what are we trying to solve my going to 4 cell, that won't become an issue later on again ...or create additional issues now? I would like to see a "hit list" of issues that 4 cell is supposed to address along with the pro's and con's that ROAR has come up with in this list of issues.



...to wrap it all up, I still think that an issue of this magnitude should be put to the membership to vote, if only 5.7% of the people vote and 115 of them say got with 4 cell, then so be it ...what determines weather a rule change gets voted on by the EXCOM alone or by the membership, I remember we voted on increasined the battery cell size a couple years ago (when I beleive IP's were bigger than the spec), that seemed like a pretty major change, although dwarfed in comparison to this issue.

...I would be more than willing to put together an internet poll or informal (or formal for that matter) internet voting system for this, those of you that know me, know my company has more than the ability to do this.
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Last edited by HarshGuy; 11-24-2006 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:04 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by HarshGuy
I would like to hear from these industry leaders and what their testing has shown.

...what determines weather a rule change gets voted on by the EXCOM alone or by the membership, I remember we voted on increasined the battery cell size a couple years ago (when I beleive IP's were bigger than the spec), that seemed like a pretty major change, although dwarfed in comparison to this issue.
BTW ...I'm not trying to be a $marta$$ here, I would legitimitly like to hear from the industry experts on the issues/testing ...and I really would like to know what/how the determination is made that an issue is something the membership should vote on.
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:10 AM   #244
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Let me just say this as a try newbie to racing. I haven't raced once yet since I'm still in the process of buying all the bits and pieces but...if this means that I'll have to buy all new stuff AGAIN to try and actually get into this hobby...I'll switch to nitro and/or 1/12th scale.

The cost is already eating up the little extra money I have.
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:26 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by BigDogRacing
My Daddy always says "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out"... hmm, I'm not sure that was the best quote to compliment my statements.....
My Daddy said

round them all up in a field & Bomb the Bast~rds
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Old 11-24-2006, 08:44 AM   #246
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Clearly by my post numbers I,m new,.... to this form of discussion anyhow.
There are two clear sides as far as I can tell Faster and slower.
Faster.
Lets go to eight cells, hey the "membership" Wants to go faster. Lets do it.
Four cells evenly distributed throughout the chassis. That makes sense to me. Faster and better balance.
My point is It wont end. Lets say I,m 35 years old and when I started At the age of 12 there was only1200 sc cells in a yellow shrink wrap. Stock motors without removable endbells and the Tamiya frog was the fastest car on the block. We as an industry have progressed from that to now (slowly painfully,and very expensively). Had I known that speed beyond human reaction time was the goal, Well 8 cells, 10 cells, why stop there.
Gee we cant attract new blood to the industry. To be competative like the big boys you need to spend like the big boys. Battery companies must think we,re idiots. Tiny increments in battery technology every 6 months forcing us to buy up to stay on that"cutting edge". No its the progression of the sport they say. When was the last time someone on the paying end said that.
Roar is trying to keep the sport tangible for Joe average, Or are they trying to crush the industry built around them? HMMMM.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:12 AM   #247
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6 cells is the Industry Standard for all Cars with the exception of the Pan Cars, some of you forget this. If you take 2 cells from TC you are forcing those who run other RC vehicles to have to either purchase more packs or stop racing one class.

I race 12th scale and those 4 cell packs are completely useless for anything but my 12th. My 6 cell packs (yup, my coveted 1.24 packs) I'll use in my T4, my son's E-Maxx, Motorcycle, bashing in the street etc.... Now you want to make me have to have MORE useless for anything but racing packs... No Thank you!!!! I may stay around running 12th scale, but I will not be running TC anymore... Especially since my 12th scale will be kicking the crap out of TC speedwise anyway....

And stop comparing the Pan Cars unless we intend to make 190 or 230mm Pan cars legal to race with the TC's!!!! I think I may just set up my L3T on 4 cells and run with the TC's next week to see how it runs... I bet more people would run out to find a pantoura, L3T or Darkside car....
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:22 AM   #248
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We already know those results with 4 cell and 19t in a pan car.The Pan car will win.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:32 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BullFrog
We already know those results with 4 cell and 19t in a pan car.The Pan car will win.
doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that one out , !! the pan car is half the weight of the tc
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:39 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J
doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that one out , !! the pan car is half the weight of the tc
Then why do we keep comparing the switch of Oval and 12th scale to Touring Car, can the rest of you rocket scientists tell me????
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:02 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
Then why do we keep comparing the switch of Oval and 12th scale to Touring Car, can the rest of you rocket scientists tell me????
Got that thinking over here aswell (uk)
no oval but 1.12th yes
there`s no comparison
1/12th weigh`s as much of a box of matches TC really heavy , more dead weight to move around , more power loss through transmission (belts,pulley`s )

have i missed some thing ??
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:06 AM   #252
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So does this mean that all the major events for 2007 will be 4 cell?? Racer's will still push the issue and gear to the moon, drop a couple of turns on the motors (mod) and we'll be right back where we are now. The only thing I see is it really hurting stock. If I want to race/see a 540 motor I'll watch a heat of mini's. I'm not trying to be on the neg side....I'm just asking a serious question and that is what will the benfits be of such a drastic rule change? Batteries are getting better and better but the motors and brushes are still the same as they were when we were racing with 2,000. We say that the high voltage cells are burning up our motors but we we gear them to the moon this is gonna happen. I could be way off on this one but I share some of the same questions that have been ask a couple of times on here. So can someone unbiased please fill us in.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:25 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
Then why do we keep comparing the switch of Oval and 12th scale to Touring Car, can the rest of you rocket scientists tell me????
what I msaying is that you cant compare pan car to a tc even with 6 cells the 1/12th with 4 cells is faster.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:31 AM   #254
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So why even bother to run or even have a 4 cell TC class when 12th scale will be much faster... and cheaper
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:01 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos.J
what I msaying is that you cant compare pan car to a tc even with 6 cells the 1/12th with 4 cells is faster.
Yes because 6 cell pan car is overpowered, it's like shoehorning a 502 into a Civic....

TC's are not overpowered, they have too much traction.... You have more traction than any other form of racing, be it full size or scale... Titanium axels, bullet proof diffs.... The weak link is the Motors, something has to give....

Even dropping to 5 or 4 cells, the motors are still the weak links... People are going to run 80mm rollout and we'll still have the same issues...

The fix would be a temporary drop of 1 cell to 5 and a max gear rule... During this time the motor companies should come up with a new motor design, possible a 5 pole or more... Set a date and stick to it.... I know EddieO has a design in the works, plus there are other motor sources out there....

HP is the great equalizer... Maybe we should up the voltage so that even with the stickiest tires on a perfect surface it's possible to light up the tires and do donuts....

Changing one of the biggest forms of RC vehicles away from an industry standard is not the answer....
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