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Old 11-23-2006, 11:29 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Bob Barry
LMAO you guys are great...you are making me really enjoy this late night. You have a bunch of idiots who think that going faster on the track is about pure speed bitching to a group of morons who make changes for the mass populous "in their best interest" without consulting them.
Geez, hope I didn't make the "idiot" list.

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personally I have watched one of the top stock drivers in the country run with 4 cells (because two actually vented as the car was put down) and he said yes it was slower but he was 3 seconds quicker overall. And that was without the benefit of reduced weight and balancing the car. 4 cells can work, but it's different.
Not against 6-cell cars. There isn't a person on this thread that believes a 4cell stock TC will yield faster lap times than a 6cell touring car. Especially in the hands of a good driver. Now you're just trolling.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:33 PM   #197
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Simply switch to lipo and brushless, and run 15 minutes race length in finals.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:37 PM   #198
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Well said Bob Barry!!!!
Other than we are idiots and morons? Or including that?
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:44 PM   #199
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I thought we don't need to argue anymore at this moment.

If 4 cells is good and fast, just follow them.

But one thing is sure, 4 cells is slow in this moment.

Therefore I will quit EP and won't buy anything until 2008, even 2009. I believe those 4 cells equipments will be very fast at that time.

Those racing assoications really make me save money this time.....
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:45 PM   #200
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Bob, he said flat out the car was slower...your right. but on the clock he ended up faster. If you have been around long enough...which we know you have....sometimes slower is faster. I am not a proponent of either case....I just wanted to kind of slap you all in the face with what this looks like.

I mean just strip it all down and you have people complaining about something they have never tried VS the "decomocratic" racing govt not using it's head to consult its members.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:49 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by asw7576
I really agree with this guy.

Why we have to follow Japanese standard ? ( going 4 cell ? )

Racing in nature is all about speed and money.

Winning a race is all about smart strategy, team works, driving skills, and luck.

Once we shift to 4 cells rules, people with deepest pockets will buy the super voltage matched battery, while regular drivers and newbies could only wish to run at his speed.

Current battery technology permit everyone with unmatched cells to run very close to matched cells. The battery price is going down recently, and they ( battery sellers & matchers ) want to jack up the price back to 1990 : Overprice battery

Can you explain to me why going down to 5 cells would mean that my cell matching company would jack up the price due to it ?
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:53 PM   #202
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why not instead of limit cell number increase race lenth to 8+ minutes. requiring the batteries to last longer will force drivers to pick more moderate motors for mod class. which is what the entire issue comes down to. mod is so fast that they over power everything on the chassis, so they whine for something slower. i dont think anyone will argue that stock or 19t have gotten too fast recently. make everyone race longer and slow themselves down to make the batteries last. it worked before when going from 1200's and such when races were 4min's long. the industry produced better batteries and roar extended racing to 5 min's. our batteries got even better yet, so lets go for longer races. im all for more track time.
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:03 AM   #203
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This is just simply the last gasp effort for roar and the battery companies to prevent lipo's from taking over.
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:06 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Can you explain to me why going down to 5 cells would mean that my cell matching company would jack up the price due to it ?

One could make an assumption that battery companies make a certain percentage of profit off each cell sold, so selling one less per pack yeilds the loss of one "sale" after every six packs sold, and therefore a market adjustment would be in order to gain that 16% loss in profit up.

Actually a very good assumption phrased wrong.
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:08 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by corradopsi
why not instead of limit cell number increase race lenth to 8+ minutes. requiring the batteries to last longer will force drivers to pick more moderate motors for mod class. which is what the entire issue comes down to. mod is so fast that they over power everything on the chassis, so they whine for something slower. i dont think anyone will argue that stock or 19t have gotten too fast recently. make everyone race longer and slow themselves down to make the batteries last. it worked before when going from 1200's and such when races were 4min's long. the industry produced better batteries and roar extended racing to 5 min's. our batteries got even better yet, so lets go for longer races. im all for more track time.

BEcause time has exponential harmful affects on heat build up. Switching to 5 minutes created a huge problem for motor cooling since it is another minute of runtime. We saw lots of problems with brushes when we made this switch, which has corrected itself. When a brush fades it loss EFF causing a spike in heat, which makes you drive harder, pushing more heat...compounding problem.

8 Minutes would ruin most motors quickly.
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:08 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barry
Bob, he said flat out the car was slower...your right. but on the clock he ended up faster. If you have been around long enough...which we know you have....sometimes slower is faster. I am not a proponent of either case....I just wanted to kind of slap you all in the face with what this looks like.

I mean just strip it all down and you have people complaining about something they have never tried VS the "decomocratic" racing govt not using it's head to consult its members.
the bottom line is in order to go 3 seconds faster in 5 minutes, the car would need to be turning faster lap times. You said this guy was very good, so let's assume that he was indeed very good. In this particular unique situation you've described, he put the car down on the track geared for 6 cells to top it all off.

So you're saying a guy geared for 6 cell, running 4 cell, turned faster laps than he had been turning... It's mathematically not possible. Not for even the average club race driver. Let's say the car was going 30mph, now it's going 20mph and to get it back to 30, assuming it would pull it on 4 cells requires a pinion increase of say 8-10 teeth in 48 pitch.

He may have had a battery problem, but you did not see a 4 cell stock touring car running on the track.

Take the guys in the stock main where you are. Ask them all to drop 8-10 teeth before the main, and tell them their lap times will reflect an increase. Let us know how that works out.
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:09 AM   #207
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I think 4 cell is to drastic and 5 cell is the way to go atleast for the mod class and I do think it would be beneficial to all classes. My reasoning behind this is that dropping to 5 cell is not a huge difference compared to where we were for voltage 2 years ago. When the cells were 1.15-1.16s with 2.4 IR 2 years ago we had packs that cycled out 6.96 now we have packs that are 1.23 with 1.4 IR which means we now have 7.38+ voltage and 1 milli ohm less in IR which means the cells today can deliver energy faster and will have less voltage drop under higher loads when accelerating.

It seems like with the newer generation cells that stock and 19t motors have to be detuned to make them hold up. If we go to 5 cells the motors could be tuned up agains which would regain some of the lost power so I really don't think the speeds would be greatly reduced and since runtime is not even close to being an issue in these classes then batteries wouldn't be more important.

We can come up with theories for and against this change but no one can really say for sure what the outcome would be. Trying something is better than doing nothing unless there is no issues as things are now.

Lets say ROAR does make it 4 or 5 cell for every class nothing keeps your local club or track from sticking to 6 cells.
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:09 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradopsi
why not instead of limit cell number increase race lenth to 8+ minutes. requiring the batteries to last longer will force drivers to pick more moderate motors for mod class. which is what the entire issue comes down to. mod is so fast that they over power everything on the chassis, so they whine for something slower. i dont think anyone will argue that stock or 19t have gotten too fast recently. make everyone race longer and slow themselves down to make the batteries last. it worked before when going from 1200's and such when races were 4min's long. the industry produced better batteries and roar extended racing to 5 min's. our batteries got even better yet, so lets go for longer races. im all for more track time.
its a cool idea and all but how many heats are at the big races?? 40? at 3 minutes to each qual and main thats 12 more minutes for each of those 40 heats....thats 480 more racing minutes...which is 6 hours. not really practical
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:11 AM   #209
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I have suggest open 2 class, one is 6 cell, one is 4 cell instead of stock
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:21 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Geez, hope I didn't make the "idiot" list.



Not against 6-cell cars. There isn't a person on this thread that believes a 4cell stock TC will yield faster lap times than a 6cell touring car. Especially in the hands of a good driver. Now you're just trolling.
I recently had a cell vent, so I was running on 5 cells (with six in the car). I wasn't that much slower than I would have been. I think I got 2nd in that race. The car had a bit less punch, but overall it wasn't that much slower. I am going to try a four cell run (with 4 cells so there is less weight) and see how it goes. I am thinking that the lap times will be pretty close, but I bet everything will last way longer, like brushes, tires, etc.
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