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Old 11-23-2006, 09:16 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J
trust me you wont lose that much punch , Im telling you you will be surprised!! "dont knock until you try it"

and you dont need a 4 cell chassis , I dont have a 4 cell chassis.
Marcos...dude, you're missing it. I race mod and 19T and I DON'T want to go slower....I want to go FASTER!!!! I love racing EP Touring and the rule proposal before ROAR will effectivly gut TC racing as we know it. Think beyond the problem the Mod guys are going though and look at how the most popular classes (stock and 19T) will be affected. Some just don't want to race Mod...forcing them to move up will only force them to move on....
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:22 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Advil
Marcos...dude, you're missing it. I race mod and 19T and I DON'T want to go slower....I want to go FASTER!!!! I love racing EP Touring and the rule proposal before ROAR will effectivly gut TC racing as we know it. Think beyond the problem the Mod guys are going though and look at how the most popular classes (stock and 19T) will be affected. Some just don't want to race Mod...forcing them to move up will only force them to move on....
you will be faster , last month Jason was on a 22 lap pace with 4 cells and he was 1 lap faster pace than 6 cell mod at the state race that previous month the TQ for the state race was 21 laps , same layout , you will be just as fast as with 6 cells , I felt the same way as you until I tried it, and until you try it dont tell me that it will be slow.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:26 PM   #168
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not sure why i would need a 4 cell chassis, masami didn't use one and he won, i can move batteries around, electrics around, the brushless motor weighs 1 oz more then a brushed motors so i need to move stuff around anyway. not sure why i can't use my lrp 2 charger that i charge my 4 cell pack for my 1/12 scale car to charge my tc 4 cell pack, i will run a rcvr pack to maintain voltage to the rec, if i have to buy a new pack for every run then i will not run 4 cells anymore, if roar mandates 4 cells, then i will not run any roar races. i'm trying to find a problem that i can't deal with.

btw eddie you won't be selling more batteries, you can't keep enough in stock now, so how you gonna sell more.

btw2, billy and me are kinda of distance team mates you think maybe i could..... oh never mind.

your winner of the two classes of the northwests' biggest on road race (outdoor) on 4 month and older batteries.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:26 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J
you will be faster , last month Jason was on a 22 lap pace with 4 cells and he was 1 lap faster pace than 6 cell mod at the state race that previous month the TQ for the state race was 21 laps , same layout , you will be just as fast as with 6 cells , I felt the same way as you until I tried it, and until you try it dont tell me that it will be slow.
Do you really think that 4 cell stock will be just as fast as 6 cell stock...or 4 cell 19T will be as fast as 6 cell 19T? Come on dude.......your data ONLY applies to Mod. There is more out there than Mod.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:31 PM   #170
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Do you really think that 4 cell stock will be just as fast as 6 cell stock...or 4 cell 19T will be as fast as 6 cell 19T? Come on dude.......your data ONLY applies to Mod. There is more out there than Mod.
stock? thats class should be for beginners if you want to run stock more power to you , if you guys want to go fast why do you guys even bather running stock?? as for 19 t Im going to try it next weekend and I will let you know.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:32 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Advil
Do you really think that 4 cell stock will be just as fast as 6 cell stock...or 4 cell 19T will be as fast as 6 cell 19T? Come on dude.......your data ONLY applies to Mod. There is more out there than Mod.
There is more out there than just Touring Car and many of us use our batteries for other forms of RC cars...
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:32 PM   #172
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You'll have to have a new chassis. Because every company is going to make a new chassis for their car. And everyone else is going to buy one. You don't want to be the one guy out there still using the old style chassis. So you'll buy one.

I'm sick of hearing this compared to 4 cell oval. Tell me how oval turned out? Besides the Snowbirds where do you see pan cars anymore?
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:34 PM   #173
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So when is this decision supposed to take place, and if they do decide to go with lower voltage why would it affect this next year? Donesn't Roar have to give a little more time than a month to make a change as substantial as this?
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:36 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Advil
Do I really need to do this to know that I will lose a ton of punch and will most likely have to buy a 3.5? It is a no brainer.......just like in the day with my oval cars.....only this time I won't be around to buy 4cell specific chassis and slider chassis and what not....I will probably find something else to do. 2 wheel Mod Buggy sounds interesting again....with 6 cells unless the idiots at ROAR mess that up too.
Advil, let me point out that I'm not PRO 4cell touring nor am I con, I'm just looking at the big picture.

Are you saying that you will never ever replace the motor on your BL setup? Even if a better newer more efficient one is made?

Let's say the lighter 4 cell car is just as fast, breaks less parts, decreases tire and wear by 50%, and costs you less EVERY TIME you go to race. Are you saying you will quit anyway?

Honestly, I'm not trying to tap dance on your nads bro, I'm just saying if it really is better for the sport and we can all benefit from it, why be so strongly against it? Why not be the guy that tests it out not to prove it's better, but to prove it's NOT better? Don't be so adamant to resist change without having hard evidence to agrue the change.

Bob- are you saying that newbs can't move their speedos over to the other side and buy a 4 or 5cell stick pack? It wouldn't be too terribly expensive to take their 6cell stick packs to a local racer or Batteries Plus and have one or two cells removed. Especially for a change to 4cell. Cut the two end cells off, weld a new strap across, stick the end cap back on and reshrink. ten minutes TOPS. Afraid you're gonna get stuck with a bunch of 6cell stick packs? Heck send them all to me. I work at Batteries Plus in Memphis part time- I'll hack the cells and make it a 4 cell packs for free (as long as I get to keep the cell(s) I remove).

Bottom line- whether it's a good move or not, lets get behind ROAR, help with the testing, and try NOT TO TURN THIS INTO YET ANOTHER DARN FUSSFEST.

I look at the names on this thread and I think "geez, haven't these guys been in r/c racing long enough to know that we are our own worst enemies????" I know I have, and I get sick of the constant complaining. If you don't like it, get off your darn butt, prove to me that (fill in the blank) won't save me money or grow the sport or make the racing more fun or all of the above, and then show me. Advil this isn't aimed at you- it's for all the complainers and poop stirring haters out there.

You can be a problem, or you can be a problem solver. I choose the latter.

*BigDog quietly steps off his soap box....

Last edited by BigDogRacing; 11-23-2006 at 09:44 PM. Reason: spelling mistake... hehe
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:38 PM   #175
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Derek, your thinking here is a little off. I see your point, and I agree on many of the issues you voice your opinion on, but let me point this out.... for you and everyone here.

The heli guys are using high voltage cells, yes. But they are lower capacity. The key in this argument is the wattage used. By incresing the voltage, they can use a much smaller pinion and therefore they aren't using anywhere near the amperage as before, so they don't have the heat problems nor the amperage limit problems in their ESCs (to an extent). So basically they were giving up amperage to gain more voltage, which obviously is working better for them. There's one more aspect we forgot to throw in... the helis are for the most part keeping their weight the same. Same weight, same wattage, just trading higher voltage for less amp draw. Sounds great right?

With the touring cars (like what Jason B and Marcos are running), we are reducing the voltage, but INSTEAD of increasing amperage and therefore using approximately the same wattage, we are giving up the weight along with the voltage. Is the 48 gram reduction perfectly equal to the 1.24AV? I don't know, it will take some r&d, but it's already been noted that tire wear is highly reduced, motor wear is reduced, and we can rearrange electronics to balance the weight back out. Plus, a lighter car, i.e. the T2 '007 minus 48gr will effectively make the car MORE durable. The effective destruction realized in an impact is based on the stored energy in the mass and velocity (along with a trillion other minor aspects) of the object. Reduce the mass, you reduce the amount of breakage.

Yes, there will be a transitional phase. Yes, it may cost some of us some money. But we are updating our touring cars at least once per year- if the r&d results in lower overall racer costs and better racing, then for most of us it will be one of the updates/replacements we were going to absorb in our racing costs anyway.

As for the batteries and chargers... there is no reason to change anyting with the chargers. The number of cells in series has zero effect in the design of the charger. It's the chemistry and capacity that the charger must be "tuned" for.

Making touring cars heavier is counterproductive. Slow them down with weight but increase wear and tear on all the servicable items like tires and motors? That will mean MORE expense to me, more expense to the sponsors, and the factory driver won't give a flying flip for obvious reasons.

Here's something to ponder- why would the largest importer and matcher of Intellect Batteries in the US suggest that it would be beneficial to the average racer to reduce the number of cells by 1/6th or 16.6666666% effectively reducing his profit by almost the same amount, as well as causing less tire wear on the tires that his partner is selling? Because as always his best interests are in the hobby and if reducing overall racing costs might bring in more racers and make the racing itself more fun and less frustrating, then he's for it. Say what you want about me, but I give credit where credit is due. If Danny told me I have to pay50% over retail for his batteries I would, because I stand up for the people I believe in. That's not to take anything away from any other matchers of course.
and I agreed 100%. It's better all around for the hobby. People want speed but few can drive it. Most indoor carpet tracks are small anyway.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:40 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J
stock? thats class should be for beginners if you want to run stock more power to you , if you guys want to go fast why do you guys even bather running stock?? as for 19 t Im going to try it next weekend and I will let you know.
We have 3 different levels of Stock class locally. Novice, Sportsman, and Expert. 19T drivers are next then Mod. The only class that has poor attendance is Mod. When enough guys show up we let it rip in mod.

Personally I don't run stock....it is too slow. The guys that do run stock are having fun right now....why mess up their chi?
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:42 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by BigDogRacing
Advil, let me point out that I'm not PRO 4cell touring nor am I con, I'm just looking at the big picture.

Are you saying that you will never ever replace the motor on your BL setup? Even if a better newer more efficient one is made?

Let's say the lighter 4 cell car is just as fast, breaks less parts, decreases tire and wear by 50%, and costs you less EVERY TIME you go to race. Are you saying you will quit anyway?

Honestly, I'm not trying to tap dance on your nads bro, I'm just saying if it really is better for the sport and we can all benefit from it, why be so strongly against it? Why not be the guy that tests it out not to prove it's better, but to prove it's NOT better? Don't be so adamant to resist change without having hard evidence to agrue the change.

Bob- are you saying that newbs can't move their speedos over to the other side and buy a 4 or 5cell stick pack? It wouldn't be too terribly expensive to take their 6cell stick packs to a local racer or Batteries Plus and have one or two cells removed. Especially for a change to 4cell. Cut the two end cells off, weld a new strap across, stick the end cap back on and reshrink. ten minutes TOPS. Afraid you're gonna get stuck with a bunch of 6cell stick packs? Heck send them all to me. I work at Batteries Plus in Memphis part time- I'll hack the cells and make it a 4 cell packs for free (as long as I get to keep the cell(s) I remove).

Bottom line- whether it's a good move or not, lets get behind ROAR, help with the testing, and try NOT TO TURN THIS INTO YET ANOTHER MFing BITCH FEST.

I look at the names on this thread and I think "geez, haven't these guys been in r/c racing long enough to know that we are our own worst enemies????" I know I have, and I get sick of the constant complaining. If you don't like it, get off your damn a$$, prove to me that (fill in the blank) won't save me money or grow the sport or make the racing more fun or all of the above, and then show me. Advil this isn't aimed at you- it's for all the complainers and poop stirring haters out there.

You can be a problem, or you can be a problem solver. I choose the latter.

*BigDog quietly steps off his soap box....

this is the best post that I have read today!!!
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:44 PM   #178
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and I agreed 100%. It's better all around for the hobby. People want speed but few can drive it. Most indoor carpet tracks are small anyway.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:46 PM   #179
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Bob- are you saying that newbs can't move their speedos over to the other side and buy a 4 or 5cell stick pack? It wouldn't be too terribly expensive to take their 6cell stick packs to a local racer or Batteries Plus and have one or two cells removed. Especially for a change to 4cell. Cut the two end cells off, weld a new strap across, stick the end cap back on and reshrink. ten minutes TOPS. Afraid you're gonna get stuck with a bunch of 6cell stick packs? Heck send them all to me. I work at Batteries Plus in Memphis part time- I'll hack the cells and make it a 4 cell packs for free (as long as I get to keep the cell(s) I remove).

And then they are stuck with 4 cell sport packs which will not make runtime are completely USELESS....

Maybe they spend more time bashing with the same car with their frinds in a parking lot and want to give racing a shot....

This is just more proff of the narrow minded view that TC racer have... I'm going to bet 3/4's or more here only got into the RC hobby because of TC and in 2 years or so will have a "getting out of the hobby" post in the for sale section.... It irks me, someone who has been in this hobby for 30 years, to have newbies dictate this.... I own vereything fro Mini-z's to a 5th scale... I'm here to stay....

Stop comparing to oval and 12th, it's apples and oranges.... They are a completely different car....
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:47 PM   #180
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You'll have to have a new chassis. Because every company is going to make a new chassis for their car. And everyone else is going to buy one. You don't want to be the one guy out there still using the old style chassis. So you'll buy one.
i'm laughing so hard i had to change my depends.

i am the only guy in the state (washington) that i know of that is running a yok bd, there may be more but not at any tracks in the seattle area, there are only two of us that run the yok bx at the local off road track. so no, i'm not a band wagon jumper.

however, if it is a completely redesigned car then i would get one even if four cells wasn't mandated.

just messing with you. but the above is true, except for the depends part.
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