R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-22-2006, 12:01 PM   #76
Tech Addict
 
MrBlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: OC
Posts: 746
Default

My track is also a manufacturers test facility (Tamiya USA) so it is limited to one brand of chassis however this brand has one of the most versatile chassis lines on the market and I have noticed a big increase in drivers going to the cheaper chassis such as the Mini - Coopers or the Direct drive touring cars and because of this the attendance seems to be growing. last year it dropped dramatically when everyone felt they needed to have a Carbon/Aluminum TC and would spike periodically before a big race this year I see more people new showing up and more of the locals having a much better time and staying longer in the day then last year at this time. Teo other things that have helped based on the feedback I get weekly is Brushless or Silver Can racing along with Li-Po.
__________________
TEAM ORION - AVIONICS - KYOSHO - KO PROPO - PEAK

"Racing is about the journey not the destination if it wasn't it would simply be called Arriving"

"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."
MrBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 12:09 PM   #77
Tech Addict
 
MrBlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: OC
Posts: 746
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acyrier
Now the following is just my opinion from observations/reading/talking with other people. Lipo's... From what I've been reading, and talking with other people that use lipos on a regular basis, it is NOT really a tool for leveling the playing field. There are several companies doing the lipo thing. I also understand that there are different chargers that will charge the 2 cells individually, to there capacity. This requires more then just a basic charger, so those that can afford the advanced features…will. And lipos are getting more and more capacity.
Actually the cells needing to be balanced has more to do with the quality of the cells then the charger. Plus a balancer (also known as an equalizer) can be purchased for $35.00 and plug inlie with even the cheapest chargers.

Capacities with Li-Po are not of the same importance as NiMH. As long as you run a 3000mAh with 20C or more you will get the same perfromance as say a 5000mAh all be it for less time but both will give easily more then the 5 min. it takes to run a race.

Li-Po batteries do not benefit from harder charging as there chemistry is designed to top out at 8.4V when charged whether it's a cheap pack or an expensive the only factor is the quality of the cells and the interface. This is why some that use cheap Aircraft based cells with simple wires connecting all the cells seem to have a little bit of a disadvantage as there system has more kinks in the tube.

Even the highest quality Li-Po are not very expensive when you consider their lifespan there actually much cheaper per run.
__________________
TEAM ORION - AVIONICS - KYOSHO - KO PROPO - PEAK

"Racing is about the journey not the destination if it wasn't it would simply be called Arriving"

"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."
MrBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 12:19 PM   #78
Tech Addict
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 579
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to acyrier
Default

That's good to know, cause I will admit to being lipo-stupid.:-) But you made my point as far as "level playing field" those that have the money, will buy the better quality stuff, those that don't have, or don't want to..will not. Nobody tells anybody "you gotta have the 4200WC cells" but most will agree..speed costs. IF enough of our racers said.. WE want a LEVEL playing field. Then I would probably workwith them to figure out some sort of spec class were everything is the same. But that's not what the majority want...yet.

I'm sure, without a doubt, that main-stream racing and club racing will eventually be all lipo/brushless (or mostly lipo/brushless)(or whatever new technology evolves in power, have you seen those little model hydrogen cars...cool) it'll just take more time for people to adapt to change. some people do this very well..some take a little longer. As a track owner, my main goal is to keep as many people happy as possible, cause with-out them..the track doesn't exist.
__________________
The products and places I support.
www.michianarc.com www.facebook.com/michianarc - www.russellrc.com
www.teamtekin.com - www.teamcrc.com - www.teamassociated.com
www.fantomracing.com - www.discountrcstore.com
acyrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 12:39 PM   #79
Tech Adept
 
lonepalm4's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 99
Default

I know this is "only" a hobby, but name another motorsport where for under $2000 you can compete at the highest level of competition. bet ya can't. and if you say it's not a real motorsport, i disagree. the only difference is being outside the car. Otherwise, it is much more involved and technical then almost any form of racing. Yes, batteries are a huge deal. but anyone who remembers the old 1200 sce's knows how good we have it. In reality, what is killing the hobby is a lack of new people to replace the old. Many people in our area have quit racing when they reach the peak of thier ability and still can't win club races. It loses its appeal, cause the hope is gone. Yet the newbies are scared to race because they stand no chance against the remaining old timers who still run stock. Stock is for novices. The hobby is booming, just not the racing side. The equipment is the best it has ever been by light years, and the cost has only gone up marginally. Bottom line: if you plan to race, don't expect to be competative on $10/week. Otherwise, keep it fun, and realize that someone will always be one step and/or a couple thousand dollars ahead of you. ---later.
lonepalm4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 12:41 PM   #80
Tech Master
 
BlackKat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northside San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racenut123
The funny thing Black Kat is your answers are self serving and loaded.
Read my posts real slow. Don't feel embarassed if you have to go back and read it again. I know that rap music you listen to goes rather quick and uses an impressive vocab of about 6 words.

How are you going to tell me that I haven't tried to get "normal" people intrested in the hobby and failed due to the simple nature of it? How are you going to tell me that most "normal" people I talked didn't instantly loose intrest when I mentioned where the only local track is and how much it costs to play there?

Why do you think I've lobbied for what I lobbied for? To get average people into it. Appearantly, you John, seemingly don't care about my points. I suggest you keep working to keep your racers there, and keep me out. (although, I was thinking of checking out your carpet track some time)

BTW: John, I thought you'd find this rather intresting. I'm actually getting people at my school intrested in the Mini-Z track in SC. Why? Location and cost.
BlackKat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 01:11 PM   #81
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,142
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acyrier
Brushless motors... I also don't believe these will level the playing field. According to BRL rules, for their 4300 class (yes, I know these are oval rules) your allowed to upgrade the 4300 to the ribbed can and sintered Rotor. This is "tuning" the motor as far as I'm concerned. And again are in their infancy as well as far as RC racing is concerned. I'm sure people will figure out other ways to make these faster or run cooler so they can gear them up.
That's not entirely true. The ribbed can is just lighter, and has the larger bearing in the front which allows it to accommodate newer rotors. Novak has known since the beginning that sintered rotors were superior, but they were extremely expensive. Recent changes in manufacturing have made sintered magnet prices much more reasonable, which is why they're being used now. The sintered rotor is superior in every single way. It's stronger, runs cooler, and lasts basically forever, without being affected by heat. It's simply the one true rotor, not a tuning option. You'll notice it still works just fine in a 4 year old SS4300 motor, which hasn't changed at all.

Even when I overgear my 4300, it doesn't get hot enough to thermal. It's not the same deal, where you keep things cooler so you can gear them up.

Head over to the 4300 thread for some enlightened discussion (from Novak) about future tuning possibilities with brushless motors. There's wiggle room there, but it's small. As someone who races in a SS4300/LiPo class every week, I can tell you with absolute certainty that it's a superior way to race. It's easier, cheaper, more competitive and more fun. What else can be said? It's game over for brushed motors, we're just in the process of saying our very drawn out goodbyes.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 01:34 PM   #82
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 68
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRAD
Think about this......total up the time you spend in quals and in the actual main. Then total up the time you spent at the track that day or night and then compare the two. Was it worth it? I question spending hours at the track and a few minutes on the track to run one a main that's over in 5 minutes!!! No wonder racers are looking at other hobbies. I have been racing since 1988 and at this point question wether I will be racing anything next year. I make a decent living but COST is still a big factor for me. Just my 2 cents.
Try drag racing, full size. You can spend all day at the track and race less than a minute if you win your class, that is if you run a slow class. But people keep doing it.
OldNSlow2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 04:41 PM   #83
Tech Elite
 
Bob-Stormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Glasgow, Montana USA
Posts: 3,518
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRAD
Think about this......total up the time you spend in quals and in the actual main. Then total up the time you spent at the track that day or night and then compare the two. Was it worth it? I question spending hours at the track and a few minutes on the track to run one a main that's over in 5 minutes!!! No wonder racers are looking at other hobbies. I have been racing since 1988 and at this point question wether I will be racing anything next year. I make a decent living but COST is still a big factor for me. Just my 2 cents.
Ahh, you have forgotten about the rest of the hobby, which is building, painting, working on, inventing, problem solving, and etc. Doing things with your family, children, friends, Learning how to paint bodies, grind chassis material, building RC stuff out of left over parts, keep going with crazy things I haven't even mentioned of thought of. You may have only gotten a few minutes of track time, but then that puts no value on friendship, camaraderie, working on your car, and pushing yourself to go fast and build quality things.

Racing is like the frosting on a cake.
__________________
www.stormerhobbies.com "Where the world shops for radio control."™
www.facebook.com/stormerhobbies
www.twitter.com/stormerhobbies

looking for....vintage 1/10-1/12 pan, need Schumacher 1/12th cars and parts.
Bob-Stormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 04:47 PM   #84
Tech Elite
 
Bob-Stormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Glasgow, Montana USA
Posts: 3,518
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinL
Hey now, I golf and race r/c cars and planes. Here is my 2 cents. The hobby is moving so fast that sometimes I think the technologie can't be stopped.
Got me thinking about Golf. I think the last big driver I bought was a 300cc. And I watched over the last 10 years as they went to 320cc, and then 350cc, 360cc etc...etc... etc.. and now a few days ago I noticed what I think was 460cc and now they have aerodynamic fins and things on them!!! Pretty cool actually.

A good driver, just the one club, is the same price as any high end RC car. All hobbys progress, and if they don't, how do they keep your interest?

All hobbys will cost you some money. My wife likes to "scrap book", that sounds cheap right? "Scrap" has a pretty inexpensive tone about it. I saw a bill on the counter the other day for an $85 scissor... and some kind of crazy expensive "acid free" paper... keep going with things I had never heard of.

<---sucks at golf...
__________________
www.stormerhobbies.com "Where the world shops for radio control."™
www.facebook.com/stormerhobbies
www.twitter.com/stormerhobbies

looking for....vintage 1/10-1/12 pan, need Schumacher 1/12th cars and parts.
Bob-Stormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 06:48 PM   #85
Tech Elite
 
dr_hfuhuhurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,503
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Ahh, you have forgotten about the rest of the hobby, which is building, painting, working on, inventing, problem solving, and etc. Doing things with your family, children, friends, Learning how to paint bodies, grind chassis material, building RC stuff out of left over parts, keep going with crazy things I haven't even mentioned of thought of. You may have only gotten a few minutes of track time, but then that puts no value on friendship, camaraderie, working on your car, and pushing yourself to go fast and build quality things.

Racing is like the frosting on a cake.
I agree with this COMPLETELY. We had MANY of our local racers "retire" and get out totally about 2 years ago. Racing just isn't the same without the friends I've been with for years. It's just not the same.
__________________
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Which side are you on?"

“Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid.” - John Wayne
dr_hfuhuhurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 06:48 PM   #86
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,212
Trader Rating: 245 (100%+)
Default

Best part about Bob is you're pretty much GUARANTEED an entertaining day when he rolls into the track. Time flies, before you know it it's time to go home. Gee...I forget...did I run 9 heats or 12...? He really is right--it's all about attitude.

I think one of the things that drives off newbies is that VERY few of the "in" people at a track (and I've been to SEVERAL of them over the last 20 years) go out of their way to make them feel welcome. Just being very friendly and INCLUSIVE...care a little about their experience...goes a LONG way toward retention.

Yeah, you always have the guys in this hobby or any other who won't play once they figure out they can't win--don't worry about them. There are a LOT of (most?) racers who realistically aren't going to win (I count myself among them) but we keep going back. This year at Minot when I race Mitch my goal is to only get lapped twice instead of the three times he lapped me last year. Yeah, I was racing for 4th-5th place, but it was the challenge that had me grinning ear to ear.

btw...four newbies this past Sunday...all four racing 1/12 (yea!!) and all four bought their ROAR memberships. They're in that much, they'd best race every week!!

Scottrik Claud VanBrainDamage
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 07:24 PM   #87
ASM
Tech Master
 
ASM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Palm Bay, FL
Posts: 1,493
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Is turn out down? You tell me. Under 40 racers for the ROAR Region 4 on-road race! This is central Florida, at the track the hosted the recent IFMAR Worlds here in the states. Not all of it here is that low all the time but I sure was amazed last week-end at the low turnout.

Are we in the best times for batteries.....that's a simple "yes". However, I for one believe Hodge is right on. At some point in time this battery evolution has to stop or at least slown down some. The problem is, everytime something new comes out, you either have to buy it or you get beat by it. Yes, I know, off-road may be a little different but any place of serious on-road racing.....you need to be racing 4200's. Somebody....including ROAR has to decide to that 4200's are going to be it for awhile. I believe it's for the good of the hobby overall.

Lipo of course is a whole different story....I'm speaking strictly of Nimh cells. I have a battery sponsor and I get low priced top of the line cells. That doesn't mean I enjoy having to buy new cells just because every 6 months something else has come out.
__________________
Scott Meeks

2016 & 2017 ROAR Region 4 VTA Champion
USVTA Member #116
ASM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 07:28 PM   #88
Tech Elite
 
Bob-Stormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Glasgow, Montana USA
Posts: 3,518
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik
btw...four newbies this past Sunday...all four racing 1/12 (yea!!) and all four bought their ROAR memberships. They're in that much, they'd best race every week!!

Scottrik Claud VanBrainDamage
Those guys seemed pretty cool. Darren and I spent a fair amount of time helping Ron and his buddy. I looked over Ron's car, gave him a few ideas, and Darren showed him how to re-do his diff.

We need to keep on top of those guys, and make sure they have fun. 4 new guys is likely to turn into 8 race entries on race day, down the road.

I'd be interested to know more about Ron, he showed up with some pretty un-orthodox stuff. Like his 4-cell packs were something he cutup and made from a stick pack.. That's unusal for a rookie where somebody else would have likely said, "here's what you do", and a bunch of other things that were cool like that. It's either his buddies or something he scrounged up at a pawn shop or something. Nothing wrong with any of that. It's just there is some kind of story there, and I think it would be fun to hear it. Wasn't a typical rookie setup. I think they had fun. We'll see more of them.

They'll come back if it's fun. I let Ron have some 3300's I wasn't using for a buck a cell. I know we'll see him again, he was dying to get them on the track.

Running the mod touring main backwards was nuts, wasn't it. That was cool. Trashed my body, but it was worth it.
__________________
www.stormerhobbies.com "Where the world shops for radio control."™
www.facebook.com/stormerhobbies
www.twitter.com/stormerhobbies

looking for....vintage 1/10-1/12 pan, need Schumacher 1/12th cars and parts.
Bob-Stormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 07:43 PM   #89
Tech Elite
 
Bob-Stormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Glasgow, Montana USA
Posts: 3,518
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik
...Yeah, you always have the guys in this hobby or any other who won't play once they figure out they can't win--don't worry about them. There are a LOT of (most?) racers who realistically aren't going to win (I count myself among them) but we keep going back.
Ah, but you understand that racing is only "part" of the hobby. A very small part. An important part, but small.

Tinkering, fixing, painting, inventing, trying to improve or understand things that had eluded you in the past, making your own parts, even if it's only a body post or transponder mount, it goes on and on.

Or even doing stupid crap for entertainment purposes. Randon and I built a car out of leftover race junk. It was a piece of fiberglass that we literally bolted steering blocks to and screwed a parma good times pod on it. BAMMO, a complete car in about 15 minutes... tossed in some nasty old ESC a $5 servo a junk stock motor from 1990, and THEE best assembled pack we could find (needed the run time). We then drove it all over town, following it in a full sized car. It was hilarious. About 35-38mph for about 20 minutes.

THAT is the OTHER part of the hobby that keeps on going, and people have fun with it. It's not all about racing. It's the Radio Control hobby as a whole.
__________________
www.stormerhobbies.com "Where the world shops for radio control."™
www.facebook.com/stormerhobbies
www.twitter.com/stormerhobbies

looking for....vintage 1/10-1/12 pan, need Schumacher 1/12th cars and parts.
Bob-Stormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2006, 07:51 PM   #90
Tech Elite
 
dr_hfuhuhurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,503
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Default

One of the local guys who retired would get REALLY upset if he didn't TQ and win every week. He'd jump from car to car thinking it would make him faster, it never did. He got frustrated with it and got out, probably a good thing for him. Me, I never TQ'd and won. I would judge my progress by how far off pace I was and if I was getting closer. There were always racers there who were about my skill level and we had some really good races for 3rd or even 6th place. It's all racing.

Overall, I've improved my driving over the last 4 years of semi serious racing. I still suck but I'm improving. It's a great hobby I've enjoyed for 20 years now. And I'm looking forward to 20+ more.

You guys are right, it's all about ATTITUDE.
__________________
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Which side are you on?"

“Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid.” - John Wayne
dr_hfuhuhurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEW! Mini Z Racing Club In NJ/NY area coming fall 2007! HobbyShopOwner Micro and Mini Scales 61 09-20-2007 09:15 AM
TSRCAR Ohio Club - Offers Free Racing To Touring Cars flack Track Locator Forum 0 01-11-2007 07:52 AM
South Bay Area Club--Non Weekend scoobydo Electric On-Road 0 09-02-2005 04:01 PM
Possible On-road Touring & 1/12 Scale racing in Bergen, Passaic County area of NJ Hypnomagic Electric On-Road 36 12-16-2004 01:14 PM
1/5 touring - ny area sn4il Oval, Larger Scales and More 5 10-08-2004 07:36 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:08 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net