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Old 11-22-2006, 12:53 AM   #61
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In general, the kinds of people that can afford to race competitively aren't the sort of people that play with toy cars. They're usually golfing, or something equally sterile. :-( It requires the right combination of disposable income, desire, and interest in a very niche hobby like R/C racing to get a new person into the sport seriously. There aren't that many of us.
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:35 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
but more often than not, people join hobbies to do something fun with other people.
and there you have it.
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:13 AM   #63
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Hey now, I golf and race r/c cars and planes. Here is my 2 cents. The hobby is moving so fast that sometimes I think the technologie can't be stopped. To be honest, I really don't think the manufacturers even care if we decide to stop purchasing the latest and great batts on the market. If the purchase power of John Q public still want to buy 3800 or 4200 batts, he will make them because in the end he will make more off of them due to the mass amount he can sell. Roar as I keep hearing about in almost all the threads here really doesn't do a bunch IMO. If they are a governing or sanctioning body get the rules out and adjust if needed. The recent election, was a joke for the most part. The voters are like any other voters you can't change the number that actually vote. Back to technology. Being in the military, it's kinda funny listening to all the rants and raves of lipo being unsafe and such, the technology has been around for a while, in the past 6 years I have yet to see one blow up or pop. I think it comes down to folks taking a chance and trying to get something out of them that they just quite frankly get within a safe reason. I agree that at some point there must be limits put on things in order to balance out the hobby or you will never have everyone caught up to the same point. Bob brings up a good point about using batts for a whole season, I do the same, I can afford to go and batts on a weekly basis. But why spend the cash when all you get out of it is the satisafaction of keeping up with the Jones' and owning the latest and greatest. It is a hobby and folks sometimes tend to forget that. We are allowing a select few to govern a hobby of so many. It should be the opposite. Havce a class just for pro's and the rest of us can be happy being the average Svenson....

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Old 11-22-2006, 05:47 AM   #64
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Think about this......total up the time you spend in quals and in the actual main. Then total up the time you spent at the track that day or night and then compare the two. Was it worth it? I question spending hours at the track and a few minutes on the track to run one a main that's over in 5 minutes!!! No wonder racers are looking at other hobbies. I have been racing since 1988 and at this point question wether I will be racing anything next year. I make a decent living but COST is still a big factor for me. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 11-22-2006, 06:53 AM   #65
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We had 5 heats of touring last night at my local club.
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:00 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRAD
Think about this......total up the time you spend in quals and in the actual main. Then total up the time you spent at the track that day or night and then compare the two. Was it worth it? I question spending hours at the track and a few minutes on the track to run one a main that's over in 5 minutes!!! No wonder racers are looking at other hobbies. I have been racing since 1988 and at this point question wether I will be racing anything next year. I make a decent living but COST is still a big factor for me. Just my 2 cents.
agreed, our lhs doesnt charge for racing so we had 60+ entries and 3 cars make a class so we had 13 heats to run each round, my buddy and i left after 2 heats because it took almost 5 hours just to get to that point
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:02 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
That is true...but...

....they'd have to pay $20 track fee everytime they wanted to race they would instantly become a whole lot less intrested.....
i would rather pay and race with only the more seious players
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:30 AM   #68
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Last weekend i ran TC brushless with LIPO. One of the most enjoyable events i had in a long time. Even though my car was handling like a shopping trolley.
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:36 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Also, companys like Panasonic, Sanyo etc. are continuosly trying to improve their products, with or without us, they will march forward. Better to work with them, than against them, as I doubt any company in our immediate industry is going to go into the cell manufacturing business.

I'd be willing to bet, and I would be happy to be proven wrong on this, that our performance side of the RC battery industry is a thorn in the side of places like Panasonic, Sanyo, etc. We probably demand the most and likely purchase the least, and then also complain the most over nit-pickey things.
Agreed - however, I thought Intellect batteries were made specifically for our hobby... I may be wrong.

And with relation to slowing attendance at local clubs - racers have part to blame as well. If they make the environment un-inviting then those potential new drivers that come around to watch races will never take the step into investing into the hobby. My local track highly recommends the mini chassis to those newbies that are looking at getting into the hobby - and that is one of the smartest things I think you can do. Again - lower cost to get into the hobby, lower speeds - and greater durability. On a given race night, the turn-out for mini racing rivals that for 1/12.
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:47 AM   #70
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We also offer the use of mini's for those wanting to try there hand at racing. 1/12th scale is picking back up at our track, the TC crowd has really stayed the same. Now that winter is here it will pick up now that the outdoor guys can't race.

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Old 11-22-2006, 08:27 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
I think it's fair to say, that a useable pack of racing cells has NEVER BEEN CHEAPER. And they have some value when you are done.
Bob, I've been following you on both threads and I couldn't agree with you more. It was only a few years ago that the difference between a "good" pack and an "average" pack was vast; and you paid for it. Today, the difference isn't as big.
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Old 11-22-2006, 10:54 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
I'd be getting people intrested into my R/C stuff, but the moment I'd tell them they'd have to pay $20 track fee everytime they wanted to race they would instantly become a whole lot less intrested

Also, I believe sometimes R/C racers are too concerned about attracting new people and not concerned about keeping the ones that are already there.
The funny thing Black Kat is your answers are self serving and loaded.I have known you how many years now? You complain about one thing or the other.Your comments are so disingenuous.If people here only knew.If it's not how far it is for you to go to race,it's the race fees when you get there.If you personally can't take public transportation to the track you want to go to,that track is not supporting you in this hobby.Your "situation" in life is not my fault and not the local Rc racing communities fault either.They supply you a place to race and you crap on them no matter where the track is.You have no clue what it takes to promote this hobby.Especially the racing side of it.Many in your area have successfully kept rc racing going and have brought lots of new people in to boot.Name a bunch of examples of fun things that are as fun as RC racing that don't cost a bit of money?

Rant off.

Bob has made alot of valid points and shared some good examples.Thanks again Bob. Black Kat,when are you gonna stop complaning.Its all that complaint Rock you listen to.

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Old 11-22-2006, 11:09 AM   #73
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Racing has gotten smaller in my area but some of this is due to 3 carpet tracks and 1 indoor asphalt track all within roughly an hour away. Gas prices seem to hurt some as due higher entry fees (which I understand due to rising heat and electric costs so no biggie to me on this).

In general racing is still not bad in my racing area. I'm lucky as I have so many traks to run at in the winter and even more in the summer. Sometimes it is actually hard to figure out where to race at.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:14 AM   #74
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At our indoor club we tend to gain drivers at this time of year, our slump is in the summer when people are racing outdoors on tarmac.
It's still difficult to drag racers to our club though!
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:43 AM   #75
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Numbers are pretty steady at our track this year. We race on friday nights, and have the following classes on a regular basis:

Stadium truck Novice (approx 6-8 drivers per night)
Stadium truck Advance (Approx 8-12 drivers per night
(these are basically T4's, durtrax evaders, xxxt's on an ozite track w/carpeted jumps and other obsticals)

18th scale (Approx 4-6 drivers per night)

Touring car stock Novice (6-10 drivers per night)
Touring Car stock Advanced (8-12 drivers per night)

12th scale is hit or miss, but several of us are getting the new gen-x car and will be selling our current cars, so it may get more popular with the used cars selling for a decent price.

a slow night for us is about 45 cars. 55 cars is a good night, and last year we had a couple nights of 70 cars on a club night. (Man did that night run late :-) )

The novice/advanced thing has worked great at our track. The difference between the 2 as far as rules go is NOTHING. This I feel is Important. We used to run everybody in the same class. It got to the point that a less expierenced driver had no chance of winning an A or even B main. The faster guys would get frustraited driving around the slower guys. So we split it up. It accounted for faster lap times for EVERYBODY. Now the faster guys have more time to help the new guys..so the new guys are getting faster...faster. In addition to that, new/different equipment isn't needed to go from novice to advanced, just driving skills.

Now the following is just my opinion from observations/reading/talking with other people.

Lipo's... From what I've been reading, and talking with other people that use lipos on a regular basis, it is NOT really a tool for leveling the playing field. There are several companies doing the lipo thing. From my understanding there are (2) cells in (1) 7.4V pack. I also understand that there are different chargers that will charge the 2 cells individually, to there capacity. This requires more then just a basic charger, so those that can afford the advanced features…will. And lipos are getting more and more capacity. The batteries you buy today, will not be as good as the ones you buy tomorrow, so there will still be a battery war. And I also believe that lipos are in their infancy as far as RC racing goes. Things will change I'm sure, and SOMEBODY will figure out how to match/modify those things to get better voltage/runtime etc from these cells. Just basic progress I'm sure.

Brushless motors... I also don't believe these will level the playing field. According to BRL rules, for their 4300 class (yes, I know these are oval rules) your allowed to upgrade the 4300 to the ribbed can and sintered Rotor. This is "tuning" the motor as far as I'm concerned. And again are in their infancy as well as far as RC racing is concerned. I'm sure people will figure out other ways to make these faster or run cooler so they can gear them up. Again, progress and ingenuity (I'm sure I spelled that wrong :-))

Those things have been brought up at our track, but not by a lot of people, only 2 to be exact, and only 1 of them really pushes it. Our policy at our track is if you get 4 of them..we'll run-it. I believe it's that way at most tracks, at least in our area.

This year, we've gotten several new racers. Some have the cash to blow on top of the line stuff, some are more conservitive and buy used equipment. I totally agree w/Bob about, people go where the fun is, and that's the type of envorment we try to provide. We do this by listening to what our racers want and we go by the majority. Then those few that want to race something different, are allowed to do so as long as they have 4. We've even allowed 3 to get something going cause we don't want anybody leaving. The more people that race, the more it benifits the track. I don't mean by money for the owners...honestly, we havn't seen a dime yet. So far, 100% of what has come in, has gone right back out in terms of new pit spaces (we have lofts and pit tables supplied for most areas) new carpet, new timing system etc. Were even putting together a group buy of transponders and selling them at cost so the racers can get the best deal possible. Were one of the cheapest road course race tracks around. 1st car only costs $13.00, 2nd car $3 additional, 3rd car $2.00 additional. We have deals for "families". Say dad comes to race and brings his son/doughter. It's not 13 for each car, it's 13 +3. we do our best to keep costs down. Now there is a track about an hour away that is cheaper...free to be exact. But they are apart of a hobbyshop, so that's how it's supported. Our track is 100% supported by our racers, not only financially, but the time they put in helping make imporovements to the track. And were VERY gratefull for the racers we have, we have a great bunch of guys.

I didn't mean to sound like a commercial for our track, but it's working for us. and since the thread was kinda aimed at turnout, I thought I would share a little of what is working for us.

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We also run a big race at Notre Dame University at a car show early spring...watch our website for more informaiton!
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Seeya all at the track,
Aaron
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