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Old 02-19-2003, 02:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by rayhuang
More important to the free spin I think is the resistance you feel while turning it over slowly by hand. And not the start-up resistance, but the resistance from constant-but even pressure. The TC3 is like extremely little resistance and the Losi is very light resistance. Both are excellent. If you could design a machine that could display the amount of pressure needed t keep the drivetrain spinning at a set RPM-maybe then the answers would be clearer.
I think so too, but who's going to make this machine? Any volunteers?

It's nice to see you think my idea's cool, but is there any truth in it?
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Old 02-19-2003, 04:51 PM   #17
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wow! well done on the replies everyone. my intent with this thread was not to get really scientific with the results. i agree with the fact that free roll results are not proprotional with loaded tire resistance results. and efficiency isn't either. momentum generated my mass in the drivetrain is highly accountable for duration of the roll. yada, yada. i did want to see just how free some of these belt cars are getting. i think the belts are the greatest variable in achieving this long roll. how much does it matter? i dunno. i don't think a ton, but i'd like to get mine to free up, just as a project. it's really easy to move now, but i do think the belts could get softer. now i really do. thanks to everyone so far that has posted. rock on rctech members.

another question though...

these belt "dressings" that are used to soften the rubber, and i'm using dressing as a general term here. i've found wd-40 to shrink them and actually screw up the mesh on larger pullies until they normalize. what about some of the other chemicals? paragon, etc. recommendations?
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Old 02-19-2003, 06:04 PM   #18
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Default Belt Dressings

As a Maintenance Mechanic for over 25 yrs, I find that any "Additives" to a belt will most always cause premature failures.
I am running the Low Friction belts that HPI sells for the Pro-3 and they seemed to help over the stock belts. Since I do not have a problem with speed on the car, I have no need to try any "Tricks" to free it up more. But thanks for the Tips.
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Old 02-19-2003, 06:18 PM   #19
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Something weird about my car! When i put on my stock tires the drivetrain on my losi xxx-s gets a little bit tighter, and when i put on any other tires, it gets free! Weird!
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Old 02-19-2003, 08:04 PM   #20
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Default Softer or Harder Belt

Just for the record my TC3 spins for 10 seconds with tires on and pinion off with non contact seal oiled bearings. Maybe 1-3 seconds with standard teflon sealed bearings with grease. Not too much difference on the track so far.

Losi went from a fairly soft belt (the blue belt) to a HARDER material with fewer cords (the yellow belt) in order to reduce drivetrain friction.

Although the TC3 has a shaft to add to the rotational inertia it is of fairly small diameter so inertia is low. The TC3 plastic diffs and drive axles are fairly light compared to the Losi diffs. Rotational Inertia may not be that different on the two cars. The main difference is the gears offer less friction at low speed under hard acceleration than the belt. The belt seems to have less friction at high speed. On some tracks the belt may actually aid traction by softening the punch. On high grip technical track in stock its hard to beat a gear drive.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 02-19-2003 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 02-19-2003, 08:09 PM   #21
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Personally, I don't worry about how long my car spins for. As was said before, I think it's more important to have a drivetrain that takes very little effort to start spinning, and continues to spin SMOOTHLY. I've never tried any belt dressings, one question I have about them is, obviously they let the belt flex easier, but does that also mean the belt stretches more??? If the belt stretches, you're just gonna lose a ton of punch. I just try and shim my pullies so that the sides of the belt doesn't touch anything, and then set the tension right.
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Old 02-19-2003, 10:36 PM   #22
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pops , I agree , you may have shorter belts life if you treat the belts.
You can run the belts looser ....( can skip)
Run old belts that have stretched out a bit. ( can break )

The treated belt is like a old belt with new clogs ( best )

Its soft & has fresh clogs so its grips the pulleys

Speed = lots of maintenance ....
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Old 02-19-2003, 10:39 PM   #23
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Ooooo ! yeah !

my Tc-3 will spin 30 sec .........( No bull )
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Old 02-19-2003, 11:04 PM   #24
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My TC3 with wheels and tires spins about 20 seconds, after modification like grinding diff supports and such.

My RC-Lab 7even with wheels and tires spins about 12 seconds, but I'm running the stock 15/32 gearing. Maybe the 17/37 would be better.

My Losi Street weapon (my POS backup car) spins around 5. I don't have the high-performance belts, maybe that would help a little. Three belts don't seem like a really good idea, neither do mixing belt pitches. Everything is tight, the pulleys are insanely small and poorly laid out.

Last edited by Lab-driver; 02-19-2003 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 02-19-2003, 11:36 PM   #25
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Default How free is your drivetrain?

I think I like the way that "Vr6vroom" said about powering with a charger and reading the amp draw. You should be able to note minor changes and it is a realistic indication of what the car is actually experiencing in the drivetrain.
Unfortunately, I don't have a charger that can do this, but I do have a DVM with an AMP Clamp that can read DC amps.

Good idea, thanks.
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Old 02-20-2003, 12:01 AM   #26
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Default I don't know if lubricants help or not...

but when I was young, my local hobby shop guy had some industrial self drying adhesive graphite spray that he sprayed on his 48 pitch RC 10 tranny gears. WOW! It seemed to spin forever just by blowing on it. (tranny only) It was very free rolling. He said it was NOT avaible to the public. I have never been able to locate any. For gears, I think it would be the best lubricant. Does anyone know where you can locate this stuff?
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Old 02-20-2003, 12:19 AM   #27
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Default One last frontier...

I was glad to see RC companies design better lighter drive components like plastic outdrives and alum/plastic cvds. All has been done except for a hard titanium wheel axles. There must be a demand before someone will introduce them to the market. Heck I would pay more to get a titanium axle like the steel ones.
They would make a difference.

Has anyone ever tried cermaic bearings from Boca? According to the add there are lighter, wear resistant, much less friction, they can take higher loads and are they crosion resistant. Seems like the way to go all around.

Last edited by Nightbreed; 02-20-2003 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 02-20-2003, 02:04 AM   #28
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Free spin

Hey. Can anyone tell me how you guys do that thing or is it secret? I mean my TC3FT, i just clean all my original teflon bearings (and took off inner shield) and lub them Trinity Royal oil very lightly, but i can`t make those free spins like you or even near that?? It is much better now after bearing maintenance, but what else i have to do at it is more sensitive. I use plastic outdrives and lighter Robinson racing 48dp 72 spurgear. Are you tryed to drive without any diffgrease between diffrings? Is it better or just too noisy without any advance? And what about those little input shaft shims (3911) there are 3 psc front and rear diffs. Are you put all of them back when clean those axle bearings? I just ask, because i want to know how can i make my TC3FT faster than ever
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Old 02-20-2003, 02:43 AM   #29
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Default I don't think anyone is getting that long of a count

Try the IRS alum imput shafts that will help. First you need to wear the gears in by driving it for some time, then reclean the bearings and reasemmble the gears mesh just like they were. Even after doing that, I still can't beleive anyone is getting a 1thousand, 2thousand for a 10 count. Maybe with an aircompressor blowing on the spur or with the rims/tires still on.
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Old 02-20-2003, 02:52 AM   #30
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With only my front wheels installed, original diffs, I could get my car to free-spin in excess of 10 seconds by running my had over the shaft. It requires time with trial and error to achieve the optimal results.

http://htrlrc.com/htrl-tc3tip.html
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