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Old 11-07-2006, 08:55 AM   #1
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Cool Eddie, Carl, and Mike....finally a polarizing issue

As I'm sure you've noticed, the whole EFRA 5-cell touring car decision has become quite the item. IFMAR won't be far behind in discussing the change.

Convenient how it coincides with the election, eh?

So...if you dare...let the RCTech world know your position on this issue.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:39 AM   #2
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I personally don't care about the changes. I do care that we maintain uniformity world wide. The racers will enjoy their racing and competition will still be good regardless of how many cell are used.
.02 Mike
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:25 PM   #3
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I think it will be fine, everyone gets all upset and when the change happens nothing. I will like 5 cell racing.
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE ELLIS
I personally don't care about the changes. I do care that we maintain uniformity world wide. The racers will enjoy their racing and competition will still be good regardless of how many cell are used.
.02 Mike
I am sorry Mike, I do not agree with your conservative approach here.



It does not worry you that these battery issues are going to change TC racing? These battery changes could help influence more people to come into the hobby rather than scare them away.

It does not worry you that racers have to use 2 multiple fans and expensive cooling devices to keep their electric TC's running for 5 minutes?

It does not bother you that racers have to change their brushes each run to make their motors efficient to run in mod?

With a less cell or cells we will be able to have cars that are slower. Now to most of your this is not important however to the newbie it is. How do you get someone into this hobby and try to drive these car as fast as they are going? Then when they are going this fast convince them to stay in the hobby when they melt their motors each run, tear up tires each run, and break parts?

Another opinion I have is that I think we need to stop the battery development. Make IB4200's WC the last cells we use for the next two years. These new batteries every couple months are causing people to get burnt out on this hobby. It is bad enough with tires let alone the development of new batteries to buy all the time. I understand the manufacturers like the money coming in from the sales of batteries however this is hurting our racing on the local, regional, and national level. Now these batteries are so good. Why do we need better? You can run a mod TC for 5 minutes flat out and come off with a minute of run time. Another problem with all the new battery developments is that they are not reliable. It seems the IB cells tend to break after so many runs. How is this good?
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:35 PM   #5
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Why not do the same for cars and speed controls then? Price limit on cars of 250.00 retail. Vendors can not release a new legal car for 2 years. See what happens then......
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Hodge


Another opinion I have is that I think we need to stop the battery development. Make IB4200's WC the last cells we use for the next two years. These new batteries every couple months are causing people to get burnt out on this hobby. It is bad enough with tires let alone the development of new batteries to buy all the time. I understand the manufacturers like the money coming in from the sales of batteries however this is hurting our racing on the local, regional, and national level. Now these batteries are so good. Why do we need better? You can run a mod TC for 5 minutes flat out and come off with a minute of run time. Another problem with all the new battery developments is that they are not reliable. It seems the IB cells tend to break after so many runs. How is this good?

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Old 11-07-2006, 01:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
Why not do the same for cars and speed controls then? Price limit on cars of 250.00 retail. Vendors can not release a new legal car for 2 years. See what happens then......

When did your RDX come out? I think it has been about 2 years.

GTX has been out for a few years.

XXX-S had a lifespan of about 3 or 4 years.

TC3 had a good life of 3 or 4 years.

Everyone does not have a limitless budget to buy new batteries all the time.
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:53 PM   #8
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Why not have a Chassis approval like everything else? Put a cap on the price (like stock motors) and make a chassis have to be available before a certain time to have it be legal...
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Old 11-07-2006, 02:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Hodge
It does not worry you that racers have to use 2 multiple fans and expensive cooling devices to keep their electric TC's running for 5 minutes?

It does not bother you that racers have to change their brushes each run to make their motors efficient to run in mod?
I hope this is the case .... changing brushes frequently also spills over into competitive 19T racing as well and at close to $4/$5 per pair, racing does become very expensive to be competitive in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Hodge
Another opinion I have is that I think we need to stop the battery development. Make IB4200's WC the last cells we use for the next two years. These new batteries every couple months are causing people to get burnt out on this hobby. It is bad enough with tires let alone the development of new batteries to buy all the time. I understand the manufacturers like the money coming in from the sales of batteries however this is hurting our racing on the local, regional, and national level. Now these batteries are so good. Why do we need better? You can run a mod TC for 5 minutes flat out and come off with a minute of run time. Another problem with all the new battery developments is that they are not reliable. It seems the IB cells tend to break after so many runs. How is this good?
Excellent point - much like some of the other aspects of racing RC, there is development time that is needed to optimize the best from something - in this case, batteries. The cells that are available now are not only so much better then what was available a year ago - with further development in matching tecniques, and just general manufacturing, batteries will only become more reliable as well. Rather then changing them every 4-6 months, manufacturers should concentrate on developing them for peak performance ... which can take several months to do. To be competitive at the upper level of just club racing requires a much more significant investment then it should - and that's just in batteries and motors.
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Old 11-07-2006, 02:08 PM   #10
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You know who that was pointed at....LOL

Batteries have not changed in "My" replacement practices. I buy a couple of packs for big events or when I vaporize a pack. The pricing has been fairly consistant also. I think it has even gone down overall. Competition is a good thing in that market. Other than the increase in capacity which our industry does not control, batteries have been a good investment for any racer. I still remember one run packs back in the day and I know you remember them too. We have come a long way from there.

I really think that if we want to get more people involved we will have to provide them with what they want. They want instant satisfaction and all out speed with little or no money invested. We can currently give them only one of the three at a time. The general public does not like to work with its hands and that means pre-built. For the most part they are slow. What do you think the first thing the customer wants to do is? That's right....make it faster. LOL. The very concept of making the race cars slower flies in the face of what your average consumer wants. You don't have to be a marketing genius to figure out what happens next.......

It is up to us as racers to bring in the newbies that buy cars at the shop and encourage them and help them. If we don't do this we just won't have anyone to race with plain and simple.

P.S. human nature being what it is....change is not accepted with open arms. I think a big change like how many cells we run in sedan will only make people quit or seek other alternatives. That is not what we want...is it???
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Old 11-07-2006, 02:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
You know who that was pointed at....LOL

Batteries have not changed in "My" replacement practices. I buy a couple of packs for big events or when I vaporize a pack. The pricing has been fairly consistant also. I think it has even gone down overall. Competition is a good thing in that market. Other than the increase in capacity which our industry does not control, batteries have been a good investment for any racer. I still remember one run packs back in the day and I know you remember them too. We have come a long way from there.

I really think that if we want to get more people involved we will have to provide them with what they want. They want instant satisfaction and all out speed with little or no money invested. We can currently give them only one of the three at a time. The general public does not like to work with its hands and that means pre-built. For the most part they are slow. What do you think the first thing the customer wants to do is? That's right....make it faster. LOL. The very concept of making the race cars slower flies in the face of what your average consumer wants. You don't have to be a marketing genius to figure out what happens next.......

It is up to us as racers to bring in the newbies that buy cars at the shop and encourage them and help them. If we don't do this we just won't have anyone to race with plain and simple.

P.S. human nature being what it is....change is not accepted with open arms. I think a big change like how many cells we run in sedan will only make people quit or seek other alternatives. That is not what we want...is it???
I know

You have a very valid point on trying to bring in racers. However we as a industry do not do much to influence newbies to come in. We release a huge monster truck that is really trick and hopes that brings them to the track someday. I could go on and on about this and one day I will do so on another site.

You are right they want it faster. At the recent I hobby show we were displaying the Micro T and the first question is "How fast is that?" "Can you make it faster?" What they fail to realize is that they have a hard time controlling at the speeds it is already going. Now put them on a organized circuit where they have to make the turn and slow down at the end of the straightaway. That is my point. I watched Michael Losi at his first big race with his XXX-S in the sportsman class at the Regionals. He had a hard time driving the car. What if it was slower? It would be a lot easier for him to get around the track as it would have been for the other Novice drivers.
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Old 11-07-2006, 02:33 PM   #12
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I am under the impression that this change is to be in modified. At our club level very few drivers run mod. We have a good turn out for stock rubber and foam. The drivers that have moved to 19t make up the rest of the sedan classes. The few times some of the better drivers have run mod, they find they are just as fast in 19t, so they end up back to that class. My "conservitive approach" would be different if it included all sedan classes. Having been in this hobby/sport for 23 years, I learned a long time ago that fighting changes rarely ever works out. At my age you just go with the flow, I have never used it as a reason to quit!
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Old 11-07-2006, 02:37 PM   #13
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I like Todd's idea. It doesn't matter what you do people will come and go from the hobby. I remember when all we had were chargers, light bulb dischargers for maintaining our batteries. It's is way out of hand. I can run a 1/8 scale for less. I never thought I would say that.

The equipment required needed to go fast needs to be reduced. There seems to be a gizmo for everything these days. Needs to back to basics. This would reduce the cost as well. I really don't think anyone will go along with this. But what do you do ?

I bet Todd and the rest of us could pack a little lighter.
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Old 11-07-2006, 02:45 PM   #14
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errr
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Old 11-07-2006, 02:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
You know who that was pointed at....LOL

Batteries have not changed in "My" replacement practices. I buy a couple of packs for big events or when I vaporize a pack. The pricing has been fairly consistant also. I think it has even gone down overall. Competition is a good thing in that market. Other than the increase in capacity which our industry does not control, batteries have been a good investment for any racer. I still remember one run packs back in the day and I know you remember them too. We have come a long way from there.

I really think that if we want to get more people involved we will have to provide them with what they want. They want instant satisfaction and all out speed with little or no money invested. We can currently give them only one of the three at a time. The general public does not like to work with its hands and that means pre-built. For the most part they are slow. What do you think the first thing the customer wants to do is? That's right....make it faster. LOL. The very concept of making the race cars slower flies in the face of what your average consumer wants. You don't have to be a marketing genius to figure out what happens next.......

It is up to us as racers to bring in the newbies that buy cars at the shop and encourage them and help them. If we don't do this we just won't have anyone to race with plain and simple.

P.S. human nature being what it is....change is not accepted with open arms. I think a big change like how many cells we run in sedan will only make people quit or seek other alternatives. That is not what we want...is it???

Agreed on all points, to a certain extent. The average hobbystore customer wants a vehicle that offers a half-hour of run time, at 50+ mph, ten seconds after they rip it out if the box. I've ACTUALLY heard customers complain about having to decal the bodies in some RTR kits, that's the state of the market now. I'm not going to point fingers as to how this "microwave mentality" began to rear its ugly head in the R/C car market, but what we have to look at is that the big mph is what draws newbies, but racers generally look at overall performance vs. cost to determine what they race. Let the newbies come in and buy the fastest vehicle they can, if they start racing they'll need some different gear anyway. In VERY FEW instances, does the second r in RTR stand for race.

I'm actually no longer opposed to 4-cell TC, the cars are actually too fast in Mod right now, and turn to shrapnel the first time they see a board. I personally won't run 4-cell TC, but I think it's better for the sport on the whole.
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