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Old 11-09-2006, 11:42 PM   #121
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jay for Prez

That's why off-road is so fun, and battery and motors aren't an issue.

All great solutions to the problems, yet I feel "the patch" or what people believe to be the patch will be what happens. Guess it's easier to make all the current manufacturers redesign to be 4 or 5 cell friendly.


I raced an OG gold tub, race when Schumacher off-road tires were the tires to have and you actully threw up a roost in off road.


Everybody should run drift tires and remember what low-grip fun really is!
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:42 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dub
The only way to control all of these issues is to effectively limit something that determines the limits of all of these other aspects- FRICTION.
No I am not talking about the belts or gears in your TC, I am talking about the fundamental property that allows us to "race" in the first place. The friction between our tires, and the surfaces we race on-usually refered to as traction. We all love it, but just like a speed freak (no pun intended) it is slowly killing us. The only reason that we can use the amount of power available to us today, the only reason we can run 7 turn motors, the only reason we can dump 4ah batteries, the only reason we can overheat our electronics, is because we have tires and surfaces that allow us to. This may be a hard pill to swallow, but it is the truth. If we controll the amount of traction that we use during racing (e.g. reducing it), all other things will fall into place.
-Jeff
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I know of a few guys who feel the same way - the equipment is pushed to the limit because we have the grip to do it! This is why off-road is not experiencing the same issues - less grip = less load, simple.

Unfortunately, it's something that realistically wont ever change - because people wont like the idea of taking away grip, afterall it goes against the fundamental logic of racing - and that is to go as quick as you can, through the corners as well as down the straights.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:05 AM   #123
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Default take away the grip!!!!!!

Yeah!!!

Thats what I said earlier in this thread.

It seems so simple and obvious to me, that if you cant lay down full power theres no need to run 5 6 7t motors, They will be overkill.

I dont understand why its so often overlooked when people discuss these issues.
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:04 AM   #124
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Jay Dub, you hit it on the head. Thanks!
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:02 PM   #125
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PDub thank you this is a key that in the past has been brought up but met with crickets and now it seems people are ready to listen and have said it in the past hard tires are the way to go.

i run little fun style races on the weekend and one of the classes TC will run a spec hard compound tire. There also other benefits to this other then power strains:

Tires last far longer

Harder compound tires are cheaper as the materials used are cheaper.

The racing is much closer a group of drivers stay within range of eachother the whole run rather then just a few laps.

Cars start to handle more like there real world counterparts and apex like the real thing again (no more point and pull)

When drivers bump each other there is not the stored energy that you find with high grip scenarios so the simply knock each other around a little bit not launch each other into the boards.

i would challenge everyone reading this to make a test at your local track find the cheapest rubber tire that your local LHS carries (I know Tamiya makes a tire that is like $6 for a set called Super Slicks and is better if you do not run an insert) get a group of your friends together and run them I promise you will find a new level of fun racing.

We have begun to start a class like this at my local track and those that watch it make the comment that the cars handle like real cars again.
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:03 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender
Best post ever

I know of a few guys who feel the same way - the equipment is pushed to the limit because we have the grip to do it! This is why off-road is not experiencing the same issues - less grip = less load, simple.

Unfortunately, it's something that realistically wont ever change - because people wont like the idea of taking away grip, afterall it goes against the fundamental logic of racing - and that is to go as quick as you can, through the corners as well as down the straights.
One of my suggestions to ROAR and other tracks was to NOT have spec tires, but make a rule that limited the # of tires used at a race. If you had one set for qualifying and one for the Main, you'd HAVE to used harder tires. You could go fast and qualify, but if you ruined your tires you'd be out.

That's the only way you'll see a change to compound.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:00 PM   #127
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Derek B Pres.

PDub Vice Pres.

Rick H. Senate Chair

I would like to nominate myself for Speaker of the house.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:06 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender
Best post ever

I know of a few guys who feel the same way - the equipment is pushed to the limit because we have the grip to do it! This is why off-road is not experiencing the same issues - less grip = less load, simple.
I've been saying the same thing for a long time and no one wanted to hear it-maybe now that some of the respected members of the community are saying the same thing some one will listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bender
Unfortunately, it's something that realistically wont ever change - because people wont like the idea of taking away grip, afterall it goes against the fundamental logic of racing - and that is to go as quick as you can, through the corners as well as down the straights.
People already running on-road and are used to cars that pull 3g's won't want to change,but It doesn't go against the fundamentals at all.The idea is to go as fast as you can through the corners and down the straights with what you have to work with,within what is possible for the conditions,within the class structure and rules.People will gladly accept stock motors,approved bodies,even CS27 tires as a paramater that they have to work within.Changing to a low grip tire is just setting a new parameter-if it's the same for everybody it's still a class,it's still competitive.The big difference is that if the cars are overpowered then a 5% faster motor won't help.Charging batteries at 10 amps won't help.It's the true "level playing field" that people go on and on about,but don't want to acknowledge.It would require existing on-road racers to learn something new,and maybe find out that they aren't the expert drivers that they fancy themselves to be.

There is a huge gap between on-road and off-road and the difference in traction is why.Low grip on road narrows that gap considerably,and could be the thing that could help on-road turnout by increasing more crossover between the two.There's good turnout for off-road so the racers are out there.

This thread has strayed off topic a bit,so to bring it back-this is something that needs to be done at the local level and NOT at the national level.On-road is over-developed because you have everyone everywhere working on the same thing and finding a hundreth here and a hundreth there,and at any cost.Sanctioning bodies make rules for national/world level events.Those rigid class structures are not needed at the local level where the a thru d mains are'nt separated by a tenth of a second.What those in power at the sanctioning bodies need to understand is that when they restrict what is "legal",or what the manufacturers are "allowed" to sell,they may be making the hobby to expensive or just too much hassle to be worth it at the local "hobby" level.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:32 PM   #129
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In real world racing HP is the great equalizer, there's only so much of it you can put to the ground.... I have to baby the throttle on my Chevelle from every traffic light or I'll be sitting there spinning the tires.... Kinda fun some days....
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:40 PM   #130
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No Dissrespect as I am sure your Chevelle is a very quick car but...

Is the Chevelle spinning because the tires can't hook up or because you have too much HP?

Puts some gooey drag slick tires on it go to a strip get them nice and hot and then ask yourself the same question?

Put a funny car engine in your Chevelle and ask the same question?

Now ask which was easier changing back the tires or the engine?

I can spin the tires in my 1993 4 cyl Pickup truck and it's not the HP believe me.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:44 PM   #131
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It's a mixture of both HP and tires, I have street tires on the car, not drag tires.... But the point is I can't drive it like I do a TC, there's no point and shoot....

If I'm going to the strip I'm throwing slicks on it....

The TC's have an unrealistic amount of grip.... When I take my 5th scale out I have to drive it like I'd drive a real car....
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:50 PM   #132
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Yes exactly and if we went to harder tires the cars would handle and mimic real world racing much more closely both making it more fun to race and more interesting to the spectator.
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